Indian air force "pilots" had a very low flying hours in 1990s

[gowthamraj]

Dropping LGBs from high altitude is not a feat where their is no threat to the aircraft.

nope, you wrong. . The mirages have high threat from MANPADS the should be tactis to survive from that. . This i tell from your own country mens journal

 

[Myth_buster_1]

nope, you wrong. . The mirages have high threat from MANPADS the should be tactis to survive from that. . This i tell from your own country mens journal

The Mirages are well equipped with advance self protection suites.
MANPADS were mostly threat to low flying Mig-21 and Mig-23 which were actually shot down.

 

[KS]

Why would Russia refuse to supply spare parts? As far as I know most of the Mig-21 were built in India in their own assembly plants. The issue was with Indian spare parts quality control which resulted in many crashes and India blamed Russia for the aircraft design while Russia blamed India for the low qualities of parts.
Pakistan relied much much more on foreigner support for spare parts while India was building most of them at home under TOT.

No grwler saab...Russia didn refuse to supply tha parts..they were in no position to supply it...Their once mighty industries were all in a state of economic shambles after the dissolution of USSR and they could find their feet only after putin took over.
nd moreover the different spare part industries were now in different countries and India had to strike deals separately with each of them.
It was because of this experience only India asks for greater ToT and offset clauses during the recent purchases.

Why would India be facing spare problem in the same scale as Pakistan during the 90s?

Arey yaar India was also not sanction free.U faced from the US..we faced the Soviets but the reasons were entirely different as i had explained above.So we too had our fair share of problems.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

No grwler saab...Russia didn refuse to supply tha parts..they were in no position to supply it...Their once mighty industries were all in a state of economic shambles after the dissolution of USSR and they could find their feet only after putin took over.
nd moreover the different spare part industries were now in different countries and India had to strike deals separately with each of them.
It was because of this experience only India asks for greater ToT and offset clauses during the recent purchases.

WRONG. You are totally manipulating things here.
If indian defense program was so much halted by USSR collapse then Su-30 and Brahmos programs would have been effected. India had to pay money for these spares which would generate jobs and income in russia. Go to SPIRI Stockholm International Peace Research Institute website and see yourself how much tons of equipments India bough during the 90s decade from Russia. Which also includes 30 Mig-21, Mig-29 and Su-30 aircrafts as well as air to air missiles in large numbers.
Actually I find this lame excuse of Russia not supplying spares for migs quite hilarious.
And you are telling me that on the other hands Russia was supplying India with billions of dollars worth of equipments during 90s decade and they were not able to supply adequate amount of spare parts for Indian Migs? Mostly Russian projects were effected due to collapse of Soviets India could have been slightly effected but not to a large extent as you are emphasizing.

Arey yaar India was also not sanction free.U faced from the US..we faced the Soviets but the reasons were entirely different as i had explained above.So we too had our fair share of problems.

Totally wrong. Provide some credible sources which proves Indian air force could not log more hours in 90s because of Russian not being able to supply spare parts.

 

[ptldM3]

The SU-30MKI pilots fly the most because it is the safest of all combat aircrafts IAF has. On average MKI pilots may fly as much 180-190 hours a year.
the 4th generation fleet pilots may be flying 150 hours
the 3rd 3.5 generation fleet like Mig-21 bison and Mig-27 pilots may be flying 120-130 hours.

This is all my guess.

Way off, MKI pilots receive some of the most flight time of any pilots in any airforce.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...iqTODw&usg=AFQjCNH9dtbT9UEvpLubJchRQDSnTcBr4Q

it turned out the IAF pilots got about 300 hours of flight time per year

 

[KEETARP]

Whosever has done the calculation , is way wrong Totally wrong. He hasnt read the article and links which he himself posted and is merely self deducing calculations .
From the same link he posted
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE2-4/rupak.html

The IAF's fleet breakdown (fighters vs. others) is approximately 60:40. However, we know that 50% of the IAF flying hours in 1997/98, or 153,000 hours, were contributed by fighters. (mark fighters not trainers or Rotors or Transport)

Now look at this gentleman's quote

We know for a fact the that Transport aircrafts such as fixed and rotor wings clocks at least 2.5x more hours in average then fighter jets.

Where did he get this figure of 2.5 infact when article mentions clearly that breakdown is 50 % - wrong totally self assumption

Let me get this calculation correct firstly for conservative estimates which i explain below 50% of flying hours for 97-98 is 153000. ( Read the link carefully )
Lets get no of fighters it is 704 for that period (which is again wrong i have posted below reason for that) = 153000/704 = 217 .
Now keeping pilot to cockpit ratio 217/2 = 108.

Now to the second part where misinformation is being spread-

Look at this chart posted by thread starter

Su30mki has star bcoz in 97-98 we had just 8 su30k base version of block1 . MKI was not even in production , bcoz prototype was in testing.
MKI arrived in Airforce base PUNE in 98-99 , so figure of 40 to be replaced by 10 .
Readers do note that contract was signed in 97 it takes time to start flying a new jet , we didn't had simulators those days like we have today.

Now to second blunder look carefully in chart's middle for 125 Mig21Bis , Its clearly written they are for UPGRADE, that means atleast mark atleast 30 airframe would have been opened out of these 125 minimum for upgrade of avionics + Radar.

Thirdly- Point was deliberately missed about Mig29 (source link itself )
Mig29 repeatedly was down bcoz of Inferior Engine , and FOD , this was rectified when Grilled Mesh was placed in all Mig29 intakes starting 96-99 period. This foreign object damage made our Migs grounded for months untill Engine returned from Russia , only in 99 a separate facility for maintenance was established.

All this data is given in those two links only - Read carefully before posting

Now calculation which was 108 earlier would rise to approx = 120-130 hours per average pilot.

Now see the sudden increase in Flying hours form 96-97 to 97-98

And it increased bcoz Mig29 problems were solving , Mki started coming and initial experience of pilots was nearing completion .
And I am sure if DATA of current time is taken it would be even better bcoz HAWK have arrived and pilots take lees time to start flying Migs from Kiran as opposed to 12 years back , and Mig-21 loss is also on decline .

A suggestion to all India members - Read the link and attached article carefully which was posted by Thread starter , must read in fact who think we have very high attrition rate .

And to that Indian poster who said- " ya that time our economy is very weak and we buy planes in loan and aid from USSR and europe, this is well known fact, "
What a stupid remark , go and learn about your Indian Armed Forces , we dont fight with Aid and soft loans .
Then point fingers at us and write such statements .
Even though i say on part of Army , thats true for air-force and navy as well .

@ PtldM3 - no surprise to see MKI clocking such high flying hours ,
My workplace - Southern Command Hospital in cant area is buzzing with su30 booms for past 2 years Day and Night.
I guess recent 2 years back up-gradation of Airstrip here at Lohengaon has added muscle to IAF operations.

 

[ptldM3]

The indian air force pilots had to low flight hours?
Dont suprise me AT ALL.
I knew they were bad skilled and zero displine.

By your writing i can't tell if you mean past or present, but if you mean present refer to post #36. Currently Indian pilots, or atleast MKI pilots get 300 hours or more anually. US pilots receive about 250-300 anually, so that should give you a better understanding of just how much MKI pilots train.

To say Indian pilots are "bad skilled" is naive, Indians have trained with US, Israeli, and British pilots...just to name a few. Going against the said countries helped Indian pilots polish their skills and adopt new ones. US pilots were very much impressed with Indian pilots the first time they met, if US pilots say Indian are skilled i will take their word over yours.

 

[letsbefriends]

Dissolution of USSR was not even the problem other wise the SU-30 project would have been effected the most. btw USSR collapsed 6 years before 1997.

an russia was in good financial condition when USSR break??? common it is still not completely out of it..

 

[jagjitnatt]

The information by Growler has been found to be wrong. Please refer to LT.Prateek's post for the correct analysis.


Growler, please don't start threads on your personal analysis or wishlists without credible sources to back you up, since all of your threads have been based on misinformation or incomplete analysis. Post only articles from credible sources.

This is a respected forum and people from all over the world refer to posts here to increase their understanding of defense systems. False information will just make this forum any strategypage kind of site which would have no credibility. Please do not harm the standards of the forum.

Regards.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Way off, MKI pilots receive some of the most flight time of any pilots in any airforce.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...iqTODw&usg=AFQjCNH9dtbT9UEvpLubJchRQDSnTcBr4Q

You have blown the picture out of proportion.

In Cope-India 2004 exercise (which your text is referring to) mostly involved IAF best of the best pilots and only few IAF MKI pilots are more then medically fit to clock 300 hours a year.
Or are you telling me that Indians Flanker pilots clock more hours then Russians?
This absurd claim of 300 hours per pilot and representing it as average IAF Flanker pilots hours is just flawed.

But I am sure the Indian fanboys really liked the ego satisfaction punch line of 300 hours per average MKI pilots.

 

[Prowler]

You have blown the picture out of proportion.

In Cope-India 2004 exercise (which your text is referring to) mostly involved IAF best of the best pilots and only few IAF MKI pilots are more then medically fit to clock 300 hours a year.
Or are you telling me that Indians Flanker pilots clock more hours then Russians?
This absurd claim of 300 hours per pilot and representing it as average IAF Flanker pilots hours is just flawed.

But I am sure the Indian fanboys really liked the ego satisfaction punch line of 300 hours per average MKI pilots.

How did you arrive at the conclusion that only a few IAF MKI pilots are more than medically fit to clock 300 hours a year?
Any source to suggest that only the best of the best flew the MKI during the Cope India exercise?
And why is it that it's impossible for Indian Flanker pilots to clock more than their Russian comrades?
And last but not the least what's with you and your fetish and obsession with the word "India Fanboy"?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Whosever has done the calculation , is way wrong Totally wrong. He hasnt read the article and links which he himself posted and is merely self deducing calculations .
From the same link he posted
BHARAT RAKSHAK MONITOR  Volume 2(4)

Are you seriously a military officer? then you have clearly showed un-professionalism by your work which itself is full of errors.

The IAF's fleet breakdown (fighters vs. others) is approximately 60:40. However, we know that 50% of the IAF flying hours in 1997/98, or 153,000 hours, were contributed by fighters. (mark fighters not trainers or Rotors or Transport)
Now look at this gentleman's quote
Where did he get this figure of 2.5 infact when article mentions clearly that breakdown is 50 % - wrong totally self assumption

Bharat-raksak researched article is full of errors and twisted figures and its quite sad to see a indian military officer in supportive of that. I have clearly showed the IAF inventory list which includes 704 IAF fighter aircrafts out of total inventory of 1650 so how did Bharatraksa come up with the absurd figures of 60:40 ratio in favor of fighters with more share of flying hours?
At least comprehend the text and its most likely that such article from the most unreliable fanboy site will have errors.

Let me get this calculation correct firstly for conservative estimates which i explain below 50% of flying hours for 97-98 is 153000. ( Read the link carefully )
Lets get no of fighters it is 704 for that period (which is again wrong i have posted below reason for that) = 153000/704 = 217 .
Now keeping pilot to cockpit ratio 217/2 = 108.

And giving 50% of flying hours to 704 fighter aircraft is more correct in your sense? while 946 aircrafts including Transports and Utility helicopters get only fraction of the hours despite the fact Transport and Helicopter fly alot more then Fighters! at least get your facts straight.

Su30mki has star bcoz in 97-98 we had just 8 su30k base version of block1 . MKI was not even in production , bcoz prototype was in testing.
MKI arrived in Airforce base PUNE in 98-99 , so figure of 40 to be replaced by 10 .
Readers do note that contract was signed in 97 it takes time to start flying a new jet , we didn't had simulators those days like we have today.

Again. Its quite evident that you did a very cheap efferent in comprehending my post.
Very carefully calculate the figures from the original source of flightglobal link that i have provided. It clearly mentions on the bottom of the chart with * sign that 40 Flankers are on order and only 8 are in service.

Now to second blunder look carefully in chart's middle for 125 Mig21Bis , Its clearly written they are for UPGRADE, that means atleast mark atleast 30 airframe would have been opened out of these 125 minimum for upgrade of avionics + Radar.

Looks more like blunders after blunders and un-professionalism from your side. You need to do a bit more research my friend. The Chart clearly says (upgrade for Mig-21/93) and its only your assumptions of 30 being operational in total of 125.

Thirdly- Point was deliberately missed about Mig29 (source link itself)
Mig29 repeatedly was down bcoz of Inferior Engine , and FOD , this was rectified when Grilled Mesh was placed in all Mig29 intakes starting 96-99 period. This foreign object damage made our Migs grounded for months untill Engine returned from Russia , only in 99 a separate facility for maintenance was established.

Yet another lame face saving excuse stunt.
Provide me a link which mentions almost all Mig-29 fleet were grounded in 1997.

All this data is given in those two links only - Read carefully before posting
Now calculation which was 108 earlier would rise to approx = 120-130 hours per average pilot.
Now see the sudden increase in Flying hours form 96-97 to 97-98

And it increased bcoz Mig29 problems were solving , Mki started coming and initial experience of pilots was nearing completion .
And I am sure if DATA of current time is taken it would be even better bcoz HAWK have arrived and pilots take lees time to start flying Migs from Kiran as opposed to 12 years back , and Mig-21 loss is also on decline .

All based on your assumptions and no sources to back up your claims.

A suggestion to all India members - Read the link and attached article carefully which was posted by Thread starter , must read in fact who think we have very high attrition rate .

Their goes Indian ego.

And to that Indian poster who said- " ya that time our economy is very weak and we buy planes in loan and aid from USSR and europe, this is well known fact, "
What a stupid remark , go and learn about your Indian Armed Forces , we dont fight with Aid and soft loans .
Then point fingers at us and write such statements .
Even though i say on part of Army , thats true for air-force and navy as well .

Basically all indians are trying to save their mighty IAF with ridiculous claims.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

How did you arrive at the conclusion that only a few IAF MKI pilots are more than medically fit to clock 300 hours a year?
Any source to suggest that only the best of the best flew the MKI during the Cope India exercise?
And why is it that it's impossible for Indian Flanker pilots to clock more than their Russian comrades?
And last but not the least what's with you and your fetish and obsession with the word "India Fanboy"?

I am not here to spoon feed trollers like you 24/7. I am sure you guys have internet and google access in India, so use it. Learn about Pilots health issues in flying.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

And, Mr Growler, What do you expect to get from this thread? The modern IAF pilot has more than 250 hours as average as quoted by an USAF pilot in 2004. So this thread was started just for your ego patting.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

And, Mr Growler, What do you expect to get from this thread? The modern IAF pilot has more than 250 hours as average as quoted by an USAF pilot in 2004. So this thread was started just for your ego patting.

Where did you get the 250 hours figure? Nothing can beat Indians when it comes to false ego satisfaction.