Indian AF Says New Indigenous Missile Will Be Too Heavy

[Zarvan]

Dibyangshu Sarkar/AFP/Getty Images

An Indian Air Force Su-30MKI flies past during Aero India 2011. The Su-30 is one of several India fighters that could be equipped with a new anti-radiation missile.

NEW DELHI — India's Air Force has raised objections to the indigenous new generation anti-radiation missile (NGARM) currently in development.

The 60-kilometer-range NGARM, developed by state-owned Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), will undertake flight trials in three months but Indian Air Force (IAF) officials say the missile is too bulky.

DRDO is developing NGARM for the service's Mirage-2000H, Jaguar, Su-30 MKI and the upcoming Light Combat Aircraft.

"NGARM being developed by DRDO weighs around 140 kilograms and is too heavy, whereas IAF wants only such missiles that do not weigh over 100 kilograms; this one will not meet our requirement," said a senior Air Force official.

"DRDO has never kept us in the loop about this missile, and we are not sure if we will at all use it," the IAF official said, adding, "infrared radiation seeker technology from Russia will make it too bulky."

However, one DRDO scientist said the missile should meet all Air Force fighter requirements: "We will make sure it is proven successful."

He claimed that NGARM is largely an indigenous missile. But one DRDO source said the agency could not develop the missile on its own and that DRDO has sought help from Russia for seeker technology.

NGARM's broadband seeker is able to pick up radiation or signals emitted by radars and communication systems, home onto the target and destroy the network.

DRDO scientists will undertake ground testing of NGARM next month and by June two prototypes will be ready for captive flight trials on Su-30 MKI aircraft to validate its seeker, structural integrity, navigation and control system, and aerodynamic capability, officials said.

DRDO for the first time is using a dual-pulse propulsion system instead of thrust propulsion for the NGARM, said a DRDO scientist.

NGARM is a single-stage, solid-fueled system and is expected to be ready for induction in the next three years. It will be produced jointly by state-owned Bharat Dynamics and Bharat Electronics.

NGARM will carry sensors and an RF seeker in its head, and a fixed antenna on its nose to detect radar by tracking its electro-magnetic radiation.

Currently the Air Force equips its Su-30 MKI fighters with the Russian Kh 35 missile, and uses the French Martel anti-radiation missile on its Jaguar and Mirage aircraft.

The Air Force also is negotiating to buy AGM 88 missiles from the US and plans to induct more than 1,500 in the next five years.

Alongside NGARM, DRDO is also planning to develop a ground-based anti-radiation missile to be launched from a mobile launcher but no details have been made public.

Email: vraghuvanshi@defensenews.com

IAF Questions Homegrown NGARM capability

 

[kmc_chacko]

there we go once again IAF is willing sacrifice its operational capabilities due to its egoistic approach. they are doing same thing whenever DRDO try to build indigenous product for IAF & IA.

 

[Abingdonboy]

there we go once again IAF is willing sacrifice its operational capabilities due to its egoistic approach. they are doing same thing whenever DRDO try to build indigenous product for IAF & IA.

It's actually the reverse- they won't comprimise operational capabilties to support budding projects which has its merits from their point of view.

On the topic, I am not too perturbed, DRDO has great pedigree in persevering and having success in the long term. A few years back very very similar comments were made about the NAG- overweight and seeker troubles but now it is ready to enter service. This is simply a learning curve, many of these technologies have never been made in India before so to expect world beating products on your very first attempt is being incredibly naive. I have no doubt the IAF will work with DRDO to get this weapon refined and into service some day.

 

[4GTejasBVR]

I don't get it!!! AM88 weighs around 350 Kg.

Weight 355 kilograms (783 lb)
Length 4.1 metres (13 ft)
Diameter 254 millimetres (10.0 in)
Warhead WDU-21/B blast-fragmentation in a WAU-7/B warhead section, and later WDU-37/B blast-fragmentation warhead.
Warhead weight 66 kilograms (146 lb).

DDo any one know why China is overwhelming majority of defence sector? Their armed forces are been told with strict words to obey and fight with whatever their nation can afford... India should take deviation from path of limited quality weapons and turn towards sketching it's strategy with what ever it can do with these indigenous weapon system. Never the less why the he'll DRDO dint rope in IAF THE User into account while developing?

They might like typical Indian babus. Chalo Yar... Let keep some R&D going. Indian Armed forces has no other option but to select our weapon. Meanwhile we will try to scuffle any weapon imports of the same type

It's actually the reverse- they won't comprimise operational capabilties to support budding projects which has its merits from their point of view.

On the topic, I am not too perturbed, DRDO has great pedigree in persevering and having success in the long term. A few years back very very similar comments were made about the NAG- overweight and seeker troubles but now it is ready to enter service. This is simply a learning curve, many of these technologies have never been made in India before so to expect world beating products on your very first attempt is being incredibly naive. I have no doubt the IAF will work with DRDO to get this weapon refined and into service some day.

In 'LONG TERM' Because government has no other option. After decades of development and lots of money paid for these scientists and resources spent. Obviously one day we need to take a call and induct them to save our money. That's why DRDO systems success only after a long time...

On us last phrase : Yes IAF kept out of this program in development stage. After few months IAF will have huge list of Cons about the missile . And it will take another good years to make it right. And later it will be inducted after huge imports of weapons in same category

 

[Roybot]

Yup, and the Mar-1 anti radiation missile from Brazil, and in service with the PAF weight 350 Kg as well. Infact there is no anti-radiation missile which weighs less than 100 Kg. Kh-31 weighs a whopping 600 Kg.

But according to this unnamed senior air force official, "NGARM being developed by DRDO weighs around 140 kilograms and is too heavy, Makes no sense.

@kmc_chacko @Abingdonboy

 

[SR-91]

It's actually the reverse- they won't comprimise operational capabilties to support budding projects which has its merits from their point of view.

On the topic, I am not too perturbed, DRDO has great pedigree in persevering and having success in the long term. A few years back very very similar comments were made about the NAG- overweight and seeker troubles but now it is ready to enter service. This is simply a learning curve, many of these technologies have never been made in India before so to expect world beating products on your very first attempt is being incredibly naive. I have no doubt the IAF will work with DRDO to get this weapon refined and into service some day.

Once the "know why" seeker technology is adapted, from the new deal being signed with Israel, into this NGARM, it will truly be a world class. Dual pulse motor with Isreali seeker, oh yeah.
Can't wait to see Indian scientists learning this very very important technology from the best.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Yup, and the Mar-1 anti radiation missile from Brazil, and in service with the PAF weight 350 Kg as well. Infact there is no anti-radiation missile which weighs less than 100 Kg. Kh-31 weighs a whopping 600 Kg.

But according to this unnamed senior air force official, "NGARM being developed by DRDO weighs around 140 kilograms and is too heavy, Makes no sense.

@kmc_chacko @Abingdonboy

Maybe they got the numbers wrong.

 

[Nattmara]

Infact there is no anti-radiation missile which weighs less than 100 Kg.

AGM-122 Sidearm is only 88.5 kg.

Still, the requirement for an Anti-Radiation missile of less than 100 Kg. isn't a realistic platform. Most are around 300 Kg, including ALARM:

And HARM:

 

[Roybot]

AGM-122 Sidearm is only 88.5 kg.

Still, the requirement for an Anti-Radiation missile of less than 100 Kg. isn't a realistic platform. Most are around 300 Kg, including ALARM:

And HARM:

AGM-122 SideArm had a short range of only 20 Km, so the DRDO developed NGARM at 140 Kg with a 100 Km range is not bad, given the other alternatives that's available in the market are far far heavier.

 

[cirr]

Yup, and the Mar-1 anti radiation missile from Brazil, and in service with the PAF weight 350 Kg as well. Infact there is no anti-radiation missile which weighs less than 100 Kg. Kh-31 weighs a whopping 600 Kg.

But according to this unnamed senior air force official, "NGARM being developed by DRDO weighs around 140 kilograms and is too heavy, Makes no sense.

@kmc_chacko @Abingdonboy

For an ARM that has an extremely short range（60km）and a tiny warhead，140kg is definitely over-weight。

 

[Roybot]

For an ARM that has an extremely short range（60km）and a tiny warhead，140kg is definitely over-weight。

The range is 100Km as per every other source, and I don't know where you got the warhead size from, guess you have some classified information

What does PLAAF have in its inventory? Anything with 100 Km range weighing less than 100 Kg?

 

[A$HU]

For an ARM that has an extremely short range（60km）and a tiny warhead，140kg is definitely over-weight。

I think the range is 100 km not 60 km.

 

[MilSpec]

I doubt the authenticity of this report, I don't think the information presented by IAF personnel is accurate here. And IAF has been in the loop since day one of the project as it's a strategic roadmap projects. The numbers presented here are extremely doubtful.

Dibyangshu Sarkar/AFP/Getty Images

An Indian Air Force Su-30MKI flies past during Aero India 2011. The Su-30 is one of several India fighters that could be equipped with a new anti-radiation missile.

NEW DELHI — India's Air Force has raised objections to the indigenous new generation anti-radiation missile (NGARM) currently in development.

The 60-kilometer-range NGARM, developed by state-owned Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), will undertake flight trials in three months but Indian Air Force (IAF) officials say the missile is too bulky.

DRDO is developing NGARM for the service's Mirage-2000H, Jaguar, Su-30 MKI and the upcoming Light Combat Aircraft.

"NGARM being developed by DRDO weighs around 140 kilograms and is too heavy, whereas IAF wants only such missiles that do not weigh over 100 kilograms; this one will not meet our requirement," said a senior Air Force official.

"DRDO has never kept us in the loop about this missile, and we are not sure if we will at all use it," the IAF official said, adding, "infrared radiation seeker technology from Russia will make it too bulky."

However, one DRDO scientist said the missile should meet all Air Force fighter requirements: "We will make sure it is proven successful."

He claimed that NGARM is largely an indigenous missile. But one DRDO source said the agency could not develop the missile on its own and that DRDO has sought help from Russia for seeker technology.

NGARM's broadband seeker is able to pick up radiation or signals emitted by radars and communication systems, home onto the target and destroy the network.

DRDO scientists will undertake ground testing of NGARM next month and by June two prototypes will be ready for captive flight trials on Su-30 MKI aircraft to validate its seeker, structural integrity, navigation and control system, and aerodynamic capability, officials said.

DRDO for the first time is using a dual-pulse propulsion system instead of thrust propulsion for the NGARM, said a DRDO scientist.

NGARM is a single-stage, solid-fueled system and is expected to be ready for induction in the next three years. It will be produced jointly by state-owned Bharat Dynamics and Bharat Electronics.

NGARM will carry sensors and an RF seeker in its head, and a fixed antenna on its nose to detect radar by tracking its electro-magnetic radiation.

Currently the Air Force equips its Su-30 MKI fighters with the Russian Kh 35 missile, and uses the French Martel anti-radiation missile on its Jaguar and Mirage aircraft.

The Air Force also is negotiating to buy AGM 88 missiles from the US and plans to induct more than 1,500 in the next five years.

Alongside NGARM, DRDO is also planning to develop a ground-based anti-radiation missile to be launched from a mobile launcher but no details have been made public.

Email: vraghuvanshi@defensenews.com

IAF Questions Homegrown NGARM capability

 

[Water Car Engineer]

These guys in the Navy are inducting a subpar Tejas as one of their AC's airwing, and several, several other subsystems on to their platforms(which there are better alternatives), but these guys in the IAF cant even look at this?

K4s and A5s were built from Prithivs...

 

[sankranti]

As usual, outsanding leaderhhips from IAF

Captive flight trials of anti-radiation missile soon - NATIONAL - The Hindu

"....The air-to-surface tactical missile being developed by Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL) will target the enemy’s air defence capabilities by attacking radars and communication facilities.

The range of the missile is 100 to 125 km and it will be mounted on combat aircraft Sukhoi (Su-30) and Tejas-Light Combat Aircraft.

The missile picks up the radiation or signals of radars and communication facilities and homes on to the targets to destroy them.

.... Instead of thrust propulsion, the missile uses dual pulse propulsion system as in the case of LR-SAM. The dual pulse propulsion will widen the envelope as well as the engagement capability of the missile. After coasting the missile for the required duration by firing the first pulse, the second pulse will be initiated just before interception of the target or during the terminal phase, the sources added.

The entire missile is being developed indigenously, including the seeker. The missile will be inducted in about two years after conducting a number of developmental trials."