India - Yet another Indian student suicides because of an exam

Joe Shearer · Mar 16, 2022

jamahir said:
Caught copying in exam, college girl jumps to death in Bengaluru
The parents said Bhavya ended her life as the college had debarred her

H M Chaithanya Swamy, DHNS, Bengaluru,

MAR 05 2022, 23:53 IST

UPDATED: MAR 06 2022, 06:38 IST

A 19-year-old B Com student allegedly killed herself by jumping from the terrace of a paying guest accommodation near Domlur bridge on Friday evening.

The deceased has been identified as Bhavya S, a resident of Murugeshpalya and a native of the Kolar district. Though her parents said she ended her life as she was debarred by her college for copying in an exam, the police said the college clarified that they had not debarred her.

Jeevan Bima Nagar police said that Bhavya, who was doing her first-year B.Com at Jyoti Nivas College in Koramangala, was caught copying in her semester examination around 2 pm on Friday. The invigilator informed the management and stopped Bhavya from writing the exam.
On her way back home, Bhavya called her sister over the phone and informed her that she planned to end her life as she was debarred by the college. She then alighted from a BMTC bus near Domlur bridge, walked into paying guest accommodation and climbed to the fifth-floor terrace. She jumped from there around 4.30 pm. Passersby saw her lying in a pool of blood and alerted the police.

A senior officer said they gathered details about Bhavya based on her ID card. They contacted her parents and informed them about her death.

“We have not found a death note but a case of unnatural death has been registered based on her parents’ complaint,” the police said.

The parents said Bhavya ended her life as the college had debarred her. But the college management said they only stopped her from writing Friday’s exam and allowed her to appear for other subjects.

“We have recovered Bhavya’s mobile phone and are ascertaining whether there is any other reason behind her act,” the officer added.

Bhavya also sent a WhatsApp message to her sister Divya in which she mentioned how her parents took care of all her needs and during the Covid-19 infection. Bhavya’s father works as labourer with a private firm.

The college spokesperson to DH, “The girl was caught copying in the language subject examination on Friday. We took her to the college counsellor and counselled her for more than two hours.”

“During counselling, we made it clear that she can appear for the rest of the exams confidently and advised her not to indulge in unethical practices. She even apologised and requested us not to inform her parents,” the spokesperson said.

---

Jamahir's comment : So another human life murdered by the unscientific, non-empathetic and ruthless Indian education system which exists in the most Capitalist society in human history - India. Firstly, the Indian socio-economic system hasn't made such a human right as education free so the family / guardian has to cough up money to enter the student in the system so that puts so many unnecessary socio-economic dilemmas in the life of the guardians - what to sacrifice so that the student gets into the "education" system. Secondly, there are not enough educational institutes and those that exist have unevenly distributed teaching quality ( quality is loosely described here ) which two things creates a caste system among the institutes where the "higher quality" institute demands more money from the student to enter and more exam marks from the student's preceding grades as if the countless high-exam-marks-taking students in India in the last 75 of independent India have made India into a harmonious, advanced and evolved society and have 20 years ago established humanity's first settlement on Mars. Thirdly, because the guardians of the student stay in the same extremely Capitalist, dog-eat-dog socio-economic system of India, most of them get pressured by neighbors and relatives into another stupid and futile competition of whose children get the highest marks in exams in the most fashionable course ( computer engineering has been one in India for the last two decades ) and then another stupid competition after the so-called education years as to whose child / student gets into the the best and top-paying employment never mind if the student has other interests and wants to join another course or drop out to start a business, and never mind if a guardian-forced student in some "high paying" job remains in middle class who buys all his amenities on loan and pays its off through his monthly wages but cannot help himself and his friends in starting a business of their own instead of being in wage slavery. Fourthly, what good is the great Indian family system if parents drive their children to suicide because of some stupid exam in some stupid course in a stupid education system ? Lastly, how dare this girl's college's management "counsel her to abandon the unethical practice of copying in the exam" when the entire education system is unethical !

@Bravo6ix, take note why Socialist and Communism-desiring societies make education free.

@Sharma Ji, you were disgusted by the killing of a dog in China but will you express disgust at the murder of humans by the Indian socio-economic system ?

@xeuss, this suicided girl, Bhavya, was a colleague of Indian Burqa Girl Muskan. Will Muskan take up the issue of Bhavya's tragic death, actually murder by the system, in the same passionate and angry way as she took up the frivolous issue of being allowed to wear burqa ? Or will Muskan find it too demanding to speak of Bhavya's suicide-murder because it is an issue that requires revolutionary change to India's socio-economic system and Muskan is not a light-year close to being a revolutionary and an intellectual ?

@Joe Shearer @DrJekyll @Naofumi @KedarT @vishwambhar @Goenitz @Bilal9 @Vapnope @N.Siddiqui

The Phoenicians who settled in Carthage used to sacrifice their infants to Baal, in terrible mass sacrifices. We haven't progressed very much in 2,400 years.

One of the reasons why the brilliant Ben Zachariah was chased out of Presidency and finally landed up in Germany is because he wanted to give his students an open book exam, that they could answer at home, if they wanted.

Paitoo · Mar 16, 2022

More than capitalist system, it is our misplaced disciplinarian mindset that is at fault. Some schools and colleges can be very punitive with such violations, but unfortunately this strictness only affects the meek. The bullies and potential trouble makers of the future don't care a rats *** about it.

Even parents who mete out disproportionate punishment to their children for failing / being caught cheating will rarely confront real criminals or fight for overall implementation of rule of law. Own children are soft targets for their own frustrations. This is a cultural issue more than that of economic system.

Also I believe as a country we should be moving towards open book exams and more emphasis on projects.

jamahir · Mar 16, 2022

Joe Shearer said:
The Phoenicians who settled in Carthage used to sacrifice their infants to Baal, in terrible mass sacrifices. We haven't progressed very much in 2,400 years.

Yes we haven't progressed much. :sad:

Joe Shearer said:
One of the reasons why the brilliant Ben Zachariah was chased out of Presidency and finally landed up in Germany is because he wanted to give his students an open book exam, that they could answer at home, if they wanted.

Answering at home was a good start because it would have been no different than tinkering in a computer lab with help of present assistants because after all the intention of the institute should be to enable the student to learn, to be educated.

DrJekyll said:
More than capitalist system, it is our misplaced disciplinarian mindset that is at fault. Some schools and colleges can be very punitive with such violations, but unfortunately this strictness only affects the meek. The bullies and potential trouble makers of the future don't care a rats *** about it.

Even parents who mete out disproportionate punishment to their children for failing / being caught cheating will rarely confront real criminals or fight for overall implementation of rule of law. Own children are soft targets for their own frustrations. This is a cultural issue more than that of economic system.

Though you wrote wonderfully about the behavior of the parents and the bullies I still say that at system level India's Capitalism has a lot to do with students suiciding and taking up wrong courses despite being under psychological torture and then taking up ridiculous employments just to bring bread and butter which in any case should have been the duty of the system to provide but in Capitalist societies like India doesn't.

DrJekyll said:
Also I believe as a country we should be moving towards open book exams and more emphasis on projects.

Agreed.

Black Vigo · Mar 16, 2022

jamahir said:
Caught copying in exam, college girl jumps to death in Bengaluru
The parents said Bhavya ended her life as the college had debarred her

H M Chaithanya Swamy, DHNS, Bengaluru,

MAR 05 2022, 23:53 IST

UPDATED: MAR 06 2022, 06:38 IST

A 19-year-old B Com student allegedly killed herself by jumping from the terrace of a paying guest accommodation near Domlur bridge on Friday evening.

The deceased has been identified as Bhavya S, a resident of Murugeshpalya and a native of the Kolar district. Though her parents said she ended her life as she was debarred by her college for copying in an exam, the police said the college clarified that they had not debarred her.

Jeevan Bima Nagar police said that Bhavya, who was doing her first-year B.Com at Jyoti Nivas College in Koramangala, was caught copying in her semester examination around 2 pm on Friday. The invigilator informed the management and stopped Bhavya from writing the exam.
On her way back home, Bhavya called her sister over the phone and informed her that she planned to end her life as she was debarred by the college. She then alighted from a BMTC bus near Domlur bridge, walked into paying guest accommodation and climbed to the fifth-floor terrace. She jumped from there around 4.30 pm. Passersby saw her lying in a pool of blood and alerted the police.

A senior officer said they gathered details about Bhavya based on her ID card. They contacted her parents and informed them about her death.

“We have not found a death note but a case of unnatural death has been registered based on her parents’ complaint,” the police said.

The parents said Bhavya ended her life as the college had debarred her. But the college management said they only stopped her from writing Friday’s exam and allowed her to appear for other subjects.

“We have recovered Bhavya’s mobile phone and are ascertaining whether there is any other reason behind her act,” the officer added.

Bhavya also sent a WhatsApp message to her sister Divya in which she mentioned how her parents took care of all her needs and during the Covid-19 infection. Bhavya’s father works as labourer with a private firm.

The college spokesperson to DH, “The girl was caught copying in the language subject examination on Friday. We took her to the college counsellor and counselled her for more than two hours.”

“During counselling, we made it clear that she can appear for the rest of the exams confidently and advised her not to indulge in unethical practices. She even apologised and requested us not to inform her parents,” the spokesperson said.

---

Jamahir's comment : So another human life murdered by the unscientific, non-empathetic and ruthless Indian education system which exists in the most Capitalist society in human history - India. Firstly, the Indian socio-economic system hasn't made such a human right as education free so the family / guardian has to cough up money to enter the student in the system so that puts so many unnecessary socio-economic dilemmas in the life of the guardians - what to sacrifice so that the student gets into the "education" system. Secondly, there are not enough educational institutes and those that exist have unevenly distributed teaching quality ( quality is loosely described here ) which two things creates a caste system among the institutes where the "higher quality" institute demands more money from the student to enter and more exam marks from the student's preceding grades as if the countless high-exam-marks-taking students in India in the last 75 of independent India have made India into a harmonious, advanced and evolved society and have 20 years ago established humanity's first settlement on Mars. Thirdly, because the guardians of the student stay in the same extremely Capitalist, dog-eat-dog socio-economic system of India, most of them get pressured by neighbors and relatives into another stupid and futile competition of whose children get the highest marks in exams in the most fashionable course ( computer engineering has been one in India for the last two decades ) and then another stupid competition after the so-called education years as to whose child / student gets into the the best and top-paying employment never mind if the student has other interests and wants to join another course or drop out to start a business, and never mind if a guardian-forced student in some "high paying" job remains in middle class who buys all his amenities on loan and pays its off through his monthly wages but cannot help himself and his friends in starting a business of their own instead of being in wage slavery. Fourthly, what good is the great Indian family system if parents drive their children to suicide because of some stupid exam in some stupid course in a stupid education system ? Lastly, how dare this girl's college's management "counsel her to abandon the unethical practice of copying in the exam" when the entire education system is unethical !

@Bravo6ix, take note why Socialist and Communism-desiring societies make education free.

@Sharma Ji, you were disgusted by the killing of a dog in China but will you express disgust at the murder of humans by the Indian socio-economic system ?

@xeuss, this suicided girl, Bhavya, was a colleague of Indian Burqa Girl Muskan. Will Muskan take up the issue of Bhavya's tragic death, actually murder by the system, in the same passionate and angry way as she took up the frivolous issue of being allowed to wear burqa ? Or will Muskan find it too demanding to speak of Bhavya's suicide-murder because it is an issue that requires revolutionary change to India's socio-economic system and Muskan is not a light-year close to being a revolutionary and an intellectual ?

@Joe Shearer @DrJekyll @Naofumi @KedarT @vishwambhar @Goenitz @Bilal9 @Vapnope @N.Siddiqui

Nothing to do with communism and socialism
Education for the poor needs to be funded by the rich which the exact purpose of Zakat

Paitoo · Mar 16, 2022

jamahir said:
Though you wrote wonderfully about the behavior of the parents and the bullies I still say that at system level India's Capitalism has a lot to do with students suiciding and taking up wrong courses despite being under psychological torture and then taking up ridiculous employments just to bring bread and butter which in any case should have been the duty of the system to provide but in Capitalist societies like India doesn't.

Capitalism does play a role in the competitive mindset, but I won't call it the main cause. People have aspirations, they may indulge in comparisons regardless of peer/parental pressure and may generally suffer from low self esteem. Also please remember that there is rarely a single trigger for suicide. It is possible she was suffering from various kinds of pressure, possibly unrelated to financial matters. It is a vast subject on its own.

jamahir · Mar 16, 2022

Bravo6ix said:
Nothing to do with communism and socialism
Education for the poor needs to be funded by the rich which the exact purpose of Zakat

1. It has everything to do with Socialism and Communism because such societies are more likely to be materially and spiritually satisfied which gives people the time and the socio-economic allowance to pursue their interests whether by themselves or whether arranged by the system. So it wasn't Capitalist India and Capitalist Pakistan which sent the first human into space in 1969 it was Socialist USSR.

2. Zakat is a nice concept for its time but one that had to be applied within a broader welfare system. It won't work by itself. You tell me, in the 75 years of Pakistan's existence taking along the Zakat concept has poverty in Pakistan ceased to exist ? A few rich persons in Pakistan patronizingly doling out Zakat once a year will not bring material and spiritual upliftment to the millions of poverty-ridden Pakistanis. To do the upliftment the system has to erase economic classes ( rich, middle, poor ). The owner of Bahria Constructions cannot live in three mansions, have ten luxury cars while imperiously doling out an annual Zakat while others live in the Orangi Town slum all year round and will never find the way to come out of poverty. Bahria's owner just patronizingly doling out Zakat is just like microfinance companies in India giving out little loans to farmers ( on interest ) knowing fully that the farmer will never become Mukesh Ambani on that loan cycle. So, Zakat is good but not by itself but within a broader welfare-based socio-economic system which you can call Communist and one system I have written in this thread which is part past systems and part mine.

DrJekyll said:
Capitalism does play a role in the competitive mindset, but I won't call it the main cause. People have aspirations, they may indulge in comparisons regardless of peer/parental pressure and may generally suffer from low self esteem. Also please remember that there is rarely a single trigger for suicide. It is possible she was suffering from various kinds of pressure, possibly unrelated to financial matters. It is a vast subject on its own.

1. I agree that people may have different aspirations, some wanting to have a fruit orchard company while another wanting to build a reusable space rocket company. There competition is fine to a reasonable level but not in exams and wage slavery in societies like India, Pakistan and USA because that is anti-human and nothing good has come out that. We know that from the concept and we know that from living decades within it.

2. Students and workers may suffer low self esteem because of parental / peer pressure and many end up suiciding so that is why their colleagues should support progressive unions within the educational institutes and the working spaces to bolster each other and agitate for rebuilding the society into a better one where the parents abandon their traditional fake-respect-earning mediums of high exam marks, the latest course and then highest paying job.

3. The article speaks of her father being a laborer so there certainly is a socio-economic angle which is what is common with such suicides, whether of her being pressured to come out of college with high marks to take up an "acchi naukri" after graduation to help out the family which also tags into her becoming an "educated" and "accomplished" bride-to-be to be paraded in front of prospective suitors.

So this is not at all a vast subject to become a four-year PhD study in some college that will require a statistician, a quack psychiatrist and a Capitalist consumer goods company acting as a sponsor but a simple one that can be understood by anyone given patient time to be rational and empathetic.

Joe Shearer · Mar 16, 2022

DrJekyll said:
More than capitalist system, it is our misplaced disciplinarian mindset that is at fault. Some schools and colleges can be very punitive with such violations, but unfortunately this strictness only affects the meek. The bullies and potential trouble makers of the future don't care a rats *** about it.

Even parents who mete out disproportionate punishment to their children for failing / being caught cheating will rarely confront real criminals or fight for overall implementation of rule of law. Own children are soft targets for their own frustrations. This is a cultural issue more than that of economic system.

Also I believe as a country we should be moving towards open book exams and more emphasis on projects.

Specifically for engineering, instead of making MS cannon fodder, we need to shift over to a heavily project-intensive system, where you have no hope of getting an engineering diploma, leave alone a 4 year or 5 year degree unless you have built product, or built systems. Not just design and modelled, built and operated as well.

We also desperately need to enable more and more students of limited means to take these, and the way out is to allow them to stop at the end of a particular year, 1st year, or 2nd year, go into industry and earn a little money, then come back and get the remaining credits to complete.

Paitoo · Mar 16, 2022

Joe Shearer said:
We also desperately need to enable more and more students of limited means to take these, and the way out is to allow them to stop at the end of a particular year, 1st year, or 2nd year, go into industry and earn a little money, then come back and get the remaining credits to complete.

Very true. There should be apprenticeships for students from economically backward sections so that they can get some confidence about their capabilities in the real world, rather than being judged by exams. This, I believed should be introduced after class 12 itself. Much of higher education (esp Masters) should be a carefully thought out decision. It is not failing which amounts to lost time, but doing masters in an irrelevant subject,

The Lost Brother · Mar 16, 2022

B.K.N said:
Millions of indian students fail in exams every year few out of those milions committing suicide is not a big problem

Agree but it is a problem for some who loves to open a thread in every effin thing. They try to impose their will on others citing socialism or blah blah. We Indians do have free schooling where you have to little to pay say 40 to 50 Rs quarterly fees. I have studied myself in Government school. My father spent whatever he could have done for me. He wanted me to excel in life and he is happy with whatever I have achieved so far. Since we are a third world country so Parents expect from their kids to do good in Academics so that they can earn and be better than their father. I agree there is pressure on kids to do good but no one in the family pressurize that much that someone take his/her life. No one can do anything in such kind of scenarios. If schooling is free then let the students keep on flunking out and make them utter failure as everything is for free. First world country (most of has) has free education and that is the reason why most of them don't take academics seriously. Anyways loss of life is a matter of concern but it is a step taken by an individual and no one else is responsible for it. May she rest in peace.

jamahir · Mar 16, 2022

DrJekyll said:
Very true. There should be apprenticeships for students from economically backward sections so that they can get some confidence about their capabilities in the real world, rather than being judged by exams. This, I believed should be introduced after class 12 itself. Much of higher education (esp Masters) should be a carefully thought out decision. It is not failing which amounts to lost time, but doing masters in an irrelevant subject,

@Joe Shearer, I agree with DrJekyll's affirmation of the apprenticeship system. This was what existed in earlier centuries whether among physicians or architects or carpenters or engineers. This is how Ismail al Jazari and Michael Faraday emerged.

B.K.N said:
Millions of indian students fail in exams every year few out of those milions committing suicide is not a big problem

Wah ! A marvelous lack of empathy on full display here. What if this girl was your sister ?

The Lost Brother said:
Agree but it is a problem for some who loves to open a thread in every effin thing. They try to impose their will on others citing socialism or blah blah. We Indians do have free schooling where you have to little to pay say 40 to 50 Rs quarterly fees. I have studied myself in Government school. My father spent whatever he could have done for me. He wanted me to excel in life and he is happy with whatever I have achieved so far. Since we are a third world country so Parents expect from their kids to do good in Academics so that they can earn and be better than their father. I agree there is pressure on kids to do good but no one in the family pressurize that much that someone take his/her life. No one can do anything in such kind of scenarios. If schooling is free then let the students keep on flunking out and make them utter failure as everything is for free. First world country (most of has) has free education and that is the reason why most of them don't take academics seriously. Anyways loss of life is a matter of concern but it is a step taken by an individual and no one else is responsible for it. May she rest in peace.

1. That "every effin thing" concerns the murder of a girl by the country's socio-economic system.

2. So why didn't this girl, Bhavya, study in a college where she had to pay 50 rupees quarterly fees ? And you say "free schooling" and then you quote a fee.

3. So your father spent whatever he could on you. Why didn't you study in Lovely Professional University or BITS Pilani ?

4. For how long do you want India to remain a third-world country ?

5. It is actually the "first-world" and the "second-world" countries where "academics is not taken seriously" that have contributed to enabling the amenities you have like the computer you are using now. In India where "academics is taken seriously" please name a prominent technology contribution to the world. In fact NR Narayana Murthy, the main co-founder of the massive Indian software services company Infosys said ( and note the underlined ) :

There has not been a single invention from India in the last 60 years that became a household name globally, nor any idea that led to "earth shaking" invention to "delight global citizens", IT czar N R Narayana Murthy said on Wednesday.

"Our youngsters have not done much impactful research work despite being equal to their counterparts in intellect and energy in Western universities," he said delivering the convocation address at the Indian Institute of Science in Bengaluru. (Read his full speech here)

Listing out 10 major inventions that Massachusetts Institute of Technology has created in the last 50 years that includes Global Positioning System, Bionic Prostheses and Microchip, Mr Murthy said these happened because students and faculty at MIT "walked the untrodden path, asked the unasked questions and used their intellectual prowess to take huge leaps".

"They demonstrated unusual courage to achieve the plausibly-impossible. The story is similar at many other western institutions of higher education," he said.

He said almost all inventions such as cars, electric bulb, radio, television, computers, Internet, Wi-Fi, MRI, laser, robots and many other gadgets and technology happened, "thanks to the research by Western Universities".

He added: "On the other hand, let us pause and ask what the contributions of Indian institutions of higher learning, particularly IISc and IITs, have been over the last sixty-plus years to make our society and the world a better place?

"Is there one invention from India that has become a household name in the globe? Is there one technology that has transformed the productivity of global corporations? Is there one idea that has led to an earth shaking invention to delight global citizens?"

Co-founder of the country's major IT firm Infosys said: "Folks, the reality is that there is no such contribution from India in the last 60. The only two ideas that have transformed the productivity of global corporations -- The Global Delivery Model and the 24-hours workday -- came from the company called Infosys."

Pointing to the problems plaguing the country such as illiteracy, child malnutrition, poor public health service, Murthy said, "I can go on and on. The important thing is to recognise that this country has no shortage of problems to be solved urgently."

He said: "Youngsters are our best hope, and there is no difference in the intellect, enthusiasm, energy and confidence between the young students at western universities and at IISc.

"Yet, when our students leave the portals of these institutions, there is not much impactful work they have accomplished in research here. What is worse is that there is not much impactful work they accomplish when they go into the real world here in India," he said.

"This is an issue that that the elders of our society like academicians, politicians, bureaucrats and corporate leaders must debate deeply and act urgently if we have to leave a better world for our children and grandchildren," he added.

Stating that this issue had not received the attention of Prime Ministers since the time of Nehru, Murthy remembered the first Prime Minister's visit to US in 1962 where he exhorted the about-to-finish PhDs to come back to the country and play a major role in creating an India where a poorest child in the remotest village had access to decent education, healthcare, nutrition and shelter.

He said the result was green revolution, white revolution, advances in atomic energy and the space programme.

Stressing that the magic of 60s should be recreated, he said "For that we have to recreate an environment of utmost respect for scholarship and for our directors and faculty in the corridors of the government, among bureaucrats, politicians and in our society.

"We have to become more open minded in welcoming foreign intellectuals and students. We have to create opportunities for our students and faculty to spend time at well-known universities abroad."

He said there must be free flow of ideas between our intellectuals and foreign scholars. "Our younger faculty must have full freedom to pursue their line of research without hindrance."

Black Vigo · Mar 16, 2022

jamahir said:
It has everything to do with Socialism and Communism because such societies are more likely to be materially and spiritually satisfied which gives people the time and the socio-economic allowance to pursue their interests whether by themselves or whether arranged by the system. So it wasn't Capitalist India and Capitalist Pakistan which sent the first human into space in 1969 it was Socialist USSR.

Yet USSR doesn't exist anymore and capitalist USA controls everything I wonder why?
Literacy rate is almost the same for USA and USSR (In the 80s)

jamahir said:
Zakat is a nice concept for its time but one that had to be applied within a broader welfare system.

That's the point of zakat and we aren't just told to give Zakat either Islam encourages us to engage in acts of welfare throughout the year

It is our obligation to help fellow Muslims in need who are struggling if we have the means to do so
Communism doesn't work and it will never work

If it was that millions wouldn't starve under the USSR and Chinese communist era

jamahir said:
75 years of Pakistan's existence taking along the Zakat concept has poverty in Pakistan ceased to exist ?

That's the point people donate money and it goes in the pockets of corrupt politicians (now don't say it doesn't happen in a communist society)

jamahir said:
To do the upliftment the system has to erase economic classes ( rich, middle, poor ).

Yeah make everyone poor in a communist society lol

jamahir said:
The owner of Bahria Constructions cannot live in three mansions, have ten luxury cars while imperiously doling out an annual Zakat while others live in the Orangi Town slum all year round and will never find the way to come out of poverty.

The owner of Bahria Constructions rose out of poverty himself rather than complaining like others

Even though he is corrupt to the core I still respect his struggle
I don't earn as much as him
I don't have a car of my own I don't have mansions but I'm not complaining because I didn't work as hard as he did

It's his hard earned money and its his right to do whatever he wants to do with it
The communist bs of distributing wealth is retarded

Why should I share what I worked for with others? Its my own hard work

jamahir said:
knowing fully that the farmer will never become Mukesh Ambani on that loan cycle

Loans never make anyone prosper
Investment does

jamahir said:
Zakat is good but not by itself but within a broader welfare-based socio-economic system which you can call Communist and one system I have written in this thread which is part past systems and part mine.

Zakat is a part of the larger humanitarian movement within Islam
We aren't just told to give Zakat every year

Like I said before Allah encourages us to help others
We are told to help anyone in need let it be a Muslim or a non-muslim but yeah again no need of communism which starves millions to death and takes away what you earn and distributes it to unworthy scums of society who suck your blood dry like a leech

As usual nothing you said makes any sense at all

jamahir · Mar 16, 2022

Bravo6ix said:
The owner of Bahria Constructions rose out of poverty himself rather than complaining like others

1. He would have used chance opportunities including of a small network to gradually become prosperous but not everyone will have the privilege and the chance to those opportunities so the idea should be to enable an evolved socio-economic system that gives everyone the opportunity to create or join enterprises of their choice as long as those enterprises don't go against justice and the common good.

2. If you are complaining about others complaining about their oppressed station in life that exists not because of natural causes but just because that particular society has an unscientific and disparity-maintaining socio-economic system, then you simply are being non-empathetic. Can you go to the Orangi Town slum in Karachi or Dharavi slum in Bombay and tell them that they should continue to suffer because of some divine ordinance and that they will respect you for that ?

Bravo6ix said:
It's his hard earned money and its his right to do whatever he wants to do with it
The communist bs of distributing wealth is retarded

Why should I share what I worked for with others? Its my own hard work

1. Money : Communism ( and Socialism ) recognizes that money is an artificial concept that came about among humans because of the impracticality of barter system unlike you an anti-Communist who seem to consider money to be a divinely ordained thing. Do you think Nature creates a list in the night sky through alphabets written by star arrangement, a list that daily lists the names of those who should be poor and those who should be rich ? Money came about for that aforesaid reason and is now mostly maintained because of the existence of profit. I quote a section from part 2 of Gaddafi's Green Book which is in better words than mine :

The final step is for the new socialist society to reach a stage in which profit and money disappear. Society will become fully productive; the material needs of society will be met. In this final stage, profit will disappear, as will the need for money.

The recognition of profit is an acknowledgment of exploitation, for profit has no limit. Attempts so far to limit profit by various means have been reformative, not radical, intending to prohibit exploitation of man by man. The final solution lies in eradicating profit, but because profit is the dynamic force behind the economic process, eliminating profit is not a matter of decree but, rather, an outcome of the evolving socialist process. This solution can be attained when the material satisfaction of the needs of society and its members is achieved. Work to increase profit will itself lead to its final eradication.

2. Wealth : You mistakenly consider wealth to be just money but the actual wealth is the resources in the society - human and material - which should be arranged to enable a society where the material needs of the citizens are balanced between individual satisfaction and the common good which will make the society harmonious and evolved. Now, since we have decided that money is artificial we have to speak of abolishing it but at a later point because we need to currently compensate for human labor and we don't yet have molecular replicators that produce objects for free. But since money has to exist for now but not contribute to injustice and class oppression we have to have an evolved money system within a society, in fact throughout humanity, so that evolved money system is what I have written. It is a money system yet manages to abolish the economic classes ( rich, middle, poor ) and enables a welfare system where every citizen has free access to all basic amenities and has potentially equal access to all other goods and services in society. This is the actual distribution of wealth. Don't stop yourself from reading it just because it has the label of Communism, just read it. To speak of this thread's topic I guarantee that no student in my system will suicide because of socio-economic reasons.

jamahir · Mar 16, 2022

@Mentee, sorry I didn't tag you for the OP.

@fitpOsitive, sorry I didn't tag you too though I saw you had visited the page.

@Sudarshan, read the OP onwards.

fitpOsitive · Mar 16, 2022

jamahir said:
@Mentee, sorry I didn't tag you for the OP.

@fitpOsitive, sorry I didn't tag you too though I saw you had visited the page.

@Sudarshan, read the OP onwards.

Na zuban apni, na economy apni, na education apni. CEO to boht hain hamary, per kia hasiat hai hamari?
Why South Asian education system pushes its students towards a blind future?

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