India Wants to Buy Russian Kalibr Cruise Missiles

[Ankit Kumar 002]

The help from Russia has already happened (3M14K version has a range of near 1500km with very high sub sonic speed, similar to Nirbhay)

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/india-wants-to-buy-russian-kalibr-cruise-missiles.447099/#ixzz4J0UvFkqV


What did you mean by this?

@Ankit Kumar 002

Pointing out that Kaliber is still a far cry for us. But help from Russia for Nirbhay was surely sought. The 3M14K , it's actually a submarine launched version , but back in 2013 two tests of its land based versions were carried out by Russia as said by RT (I had bookmarked the page but now it redirects me to its home page). And the news did mention that tradition customers of Russia are also expected to seek an export version....

 

[Hellfire]

Pointing out that Kaliber is still a far cry for us. But help from Russia for Nirbhay was surely sought. The 3M14K , it's actually a submarine launched version , but back in 2013 two tests of its land based versions were carried out by Russia as said by RT (I had bookmarked the page but now it redirects me to its home page). And the news did mention that tradition customers of Russia are also expected to seek an export version....

Read your concerned post again ... why would you confuse simpleton like me then?

Maintain brevity and clarity.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

Read your concerned post again ... why would you confue simpleton like me then?

Maintain brevity and clarity.

May be I should add the word may there.
More like
" Help from Russia (if actually sought and agreed upon) has already occured ". ??

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@PARIKRAMA some errors made here.
Remember our Coastal Defence Program? MoD is in favour of cheaper Klub instead of pricy super sonic BrahMos derivatives.

Plus as Naval Nirbhay is still some time away , so VLS Fired Klub Land Attack Version (3M54TE) was also on the cards.A few were already purchased along with Talwar .

The help from Russia has already happened (3M14K version has a range of near 1500km with very high sub sonic speed, similar to Nirbhay)

Ship fired and Sub fired are two different things

Indian Navy launches a Klub cruise missile

Coastal defence wont have everything long ranged.. in essence EEZ of 200 Nautical miles or 370km roughly shows like this

Thus anything longer wont be very useful... Of ocurse tracking side is required but threats cant be neutralized in say International waters.. We do require fast CMs like Brahmos in naval coastal batteries and perhaps a much lower ranged one as well to protect ourselves better. But Kaliber or Nirbhay would be a too much overkill for coastal batteries.

This underlines incapability of DRDO to produce Nirbahy in given time. There was talks about making a Mini Nirbhy with similar spec of Klub.


Answer to Babur is an indian made sub sonic cruise missile not something imported.

I am still saying about Nirbhay only.. yes true we have to import Caliber to perhaps solve the problematic issues under the guise of such purchase and complete the Nirbhay. We may not like that Nirbhay sufferred some failures but unfortunately we might be running out of time for a deployment purpose.. if by 2023 4 subs of PN comes with babur SLCM then we need a counter in the same timeline and present Nirbhay needs at least 6-7 more tests to validate its deployment status.
So it might not be completely incapability but rather time constraint..

 

[Blue Marlin]

why is india buying this when they have the brahmos which can e launched from various platforms?
why this over the brahmos?

 

[Hellfire]

why is india buying this when they have the brahmos which can e launched from various platforms?
why this over the brahmos?

Tech transfer

Oh wait @PARIKRAMA is paying attention here.

Time to sit back and enjoy

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

Ship fired and Sub fired are two different things

Indian Navy launches a Klub cruise missile

Coastal defence wont have everything long ranged.. in essence EEZ of 200 Nautical miles or 370km roughly shows like this

Thus anything longer wont be very useful... Of ocurse tracking side is required but threats cant be neutralized in say International waters.. We do require fast CMs like Brahmos in naval coastal batteries and perhaps a much lower ranged one as well to protect ourselves better. But Kaliber or Nirbhay would be a too much overkill for coastal batteries.



I am still saying about Nirbhay only.. yes true we have to import Caliber to perhaps solve the problematic issues under the guise of such purchase and complete the Nirbhay. We may not like that Nirbhay sufferred some failures but unfortunately we might be running out of time for a deployment purpose.. if by 2023 4 subs of PN comes with babur SLCM then we need a counter in the same timeline and present Nirbhay needs at least 6-7 more tests to validate its deployment status.
So it might not be completely incapability but rather time constraint..

Yes I know. Was pointing out the requirements/procurement programs for Ship Launched and Coastal Defence because Kaliber and India now are same as Yasen and India right now. Russia isn't exporting them any sooner.
Its most likely that the newspaper has confused our ClubN/M (as Russia calls its export version of ship launched and coastal defence Klubs) requirements / orders .

And @Agent_47 our north and western neighbours too are right now happy with the same Klub copies.... its not about capability, it's about low cost and versatile Klubs.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

why is india buying this when they have the brahmos which can e launched from various platforms?
why this over the brahmos?

Range..
Brahmos max can be taken to 700 Km +/-10% in atypical hi-hi- dive profile .. The moment it goes sea skimming roles it goes down to 180 +/- 10% range.
An extended Caliber tech in Nirbhay allows a range of closer to 1500-2000km or even more bcz reports says Caliber are designed for 4000km radius.. of course its a bit propaganda but more definable range is 2200-2500km. So if Nirbhay achieves successfully such a range of 1500km plus, it enables the sea skimming role to have closer to 700 km + capability.

That is very much required for low profile flying paths and over sea targeting ships or land targets..

something like this when you see Club S/N

Brahmos otoh in normal flight path

and what we want is something like this where first way point itself is lot distance away from detection probability implying a much longer distance in terrain hugging mode..

The difference of sea skimming requirement warrants another missile type beyond Brahmos and due to size constraints and technology available among CMs, a supersonic CM will not meet our requirements. and hence we need a subsonic LRCM

 

[Blue Marlin]

Range..
Brahmos max can be taken to 700 Km +/-10% in atypical hi-hi- dive profile .. The moment it goes sea skimming roles it goes down to 180 +/- 10% range.
An extended Caliber tech in Nirbhay allows a range of closer to 1500-2000km or even more bcz reports says Caliber are designed for 4000km radius.. of course its a bit propaganda but more definable range is 2200-2500km. So if Nirbhay achieves successfully such a range of 1500km plus, it enables the sea skimming role to have closer to 700 km + capability.

That is very much required for low profile flying paths and over sea targeting ships or land targets..

something like this when you see Club S/N
View attachment 330603

Brahmos otoh in normal flight path

and what we want is something like this where first way point itself is lot distance away from detection probability implying a much longer distance in terrain hugging mode..

The difference of sea skimming requirement warrants another missile type beyond Brahmos and due to size constraints and technology available among CMs, a supersonic CM will not meet our requirements. and hence we need a subsonic LRCM

basically to help the nirhbay to extend its range for long range anti shipping. this tells me he nirbhay is have some big problems

 

[PARIKRAMA]

basically to help the nirhbay to extend its range for long range anti shipping. this tells me he nirbhay is have some big problems

• Flight control software issues,
• Navigation issues
• and biggest problem - lack of confidence to go for terrain hugging profile.

All 3 tests pre programmed flight path was minimum altitude of 1km and above..

Its a lack of confidence on their own internal efforts by DRDO and pressure to showcase missile as a success because of timelines and priority project.

Brahmos does not matter with the same issues bcz they can go for this hi-hi flight path or even hi-med flight path but USP of Nirbhay is terrain hugging/sea skimming profile.. IF you don want to do that then it tells your lack of confidence and pressure that you want success by name not by true specs as defined in project requirements

 

[Agent_47]

And @Agent_47 our north and western neighbours too are right now happy with the same Klub copies.... its not about capability, it's about low cost and versatile Klubs.

Nirbaay is the ultimate low cost weapon not imported missile.

 

[jaiind]

why is india buying this when they have the brahmos which can e launched from various platforms?
why this over the brahmos?

one same medicine is not the answer for every treatment !!

 

[Blue Marlin]

• Flight control software issues,
• Navigation issues
• and biggest problem - lack of confidence to go for terrain hugging profile.

All 3 tests pre programmed flight path was minimum altitude of 1km and above..

Its a lack of confidence on their own internal efforts by DRDO and pressure to showcase missile as a success because of timelines and priority project.

Brahmos does not matter with the same issues bcz they can go for this hi-hi flight path or even hi-med flight path but USP of Nirbhay is terrain hugging/sea skimming profile.. IF you don want to do that then it tells your lack of confidence and pressure that you want success by name not by true specs as defined in project requirements

you do know that no every skimming missile is not actually skimming through out its entire duration ? lets say you want to hit a target 1200km away you fire the missile and the missile climbs to about 27000 ft, why? the air is thinner reducing resistance and engines burns cleaner. this saves fuel. when its on the horizon of the target it should already be skimming. so about 30km from the horizon it should drop dramatically to about 6ft and it will do this all the way to the target.

kinda like the brahmos but not as high heck even when the brahmos is skimming its ramjet is very inefficient as the air is already dense enough to be combusted so it has a rocket assistant to maintain its speed

 

[PARIKRAMA]

you do know that no every skimming missile is not actually skimming through out its entire duration ? lets say you want to hit a target 1200km away you fire the missile and the missile climbs to about 27000 ft, why? the air is thinner reducing resistance and engines burns cleaner. this saves fuel. when its on the horizon of the target it should already be skimming. so about 30km from the horizon it should drop dramatically to about 6ft and it will do this all the way to the target.

kinda like the brahmos but not as high heck even when the brahmos is skimming its ramjet is very inefficient as the air is already dense enough to be combusted so it has a rocket assistant to maintain its speed

Klub does not follow a flight path of Hi beyond its booster phase separation where it continuously moves down to the terrain hugging profile/sea skimming mode . Here is a better explanation

Source:

 

[Blue Marlin]

Klub does not follow a flight path of Hi beyond its booster phase separation where it continuously moves down to the terrain hugging profile/sea skimming mode . Here is a better explanation
View attachment 330625
View attachment 330626

Source:
View attachment 330627

alot of cruise missiles are designed to be at high altitude during cruise and when approaching the horizon it decends to a skimming approach. it increase the efficiency of the missile and reducing the need for greater fuel and equalising to less weight which that in it self helps too.