India voices concerns over US drone sale to Pak

[graphican]

oh... indian AWACS, Nuclear sub aircraft carriers agni 3 etc are only for defence day displays... am i right mate?

Gushtakh! Nahiiii! When China will get his territory from India, India will give all this arsenal to China as "dahej" (Dowery).

 

[xebex]

If pakistan can kill the terrorists with drones then i would tell u guys to go for it, its better to do the job urself than letting yankees do it. But hey, if we Indians ever spot that aircraft on our airspace surveilling on Indian territory, then that bird is good as dead. Just remember the Phalcon will be watching ya.

 

[skeptic9]

It seems drones and anti-terrorism have been married too well in public's mind. And Pak needs some drones too, but I don't think they will be provided with the latest or very potent ones because that will hurt India-US relations. And I don't feel both US and India are in a mood to leave each other at this point of time.

 

[skeptic9]

Gushtakh! Nahiiii! When China will get his territory from India, India will give all this arsenal to China as "dahej" (Dowery).

I think at this pont China should be more interested in protecting it's own *** in Xinjiang and in Africa. Maybe Tibet too, who knows.

 

[r0ck]

To me this thread is usual business for India. Whenever, Pakistan buys/tries to buy some military hardware there are 'concerns of it being used against India' whilst, whatever India buys it's all for 'defence'.

I mean really, for me this discussion is pointless. I've met a lot of indians (when in UK) and all they say is Pakistan = enemy. Even though I've had countless discussions to try to prove that we're the same as any country, but alas I was'nt able to convince even a single person.

Finally, I came to the conclusion that either I'm not convincing enough or MY FELLOW INDIANS will never change their stance on pakistan. So for me to try and explain this situation of buying military hardware for defence, to my indian counterpart is a no go. Knock yourselves out on this if you think YOU'RE good enough for that.

Though I must admit that some of the indians on these forums are one of the most modest and intellectual people I've ever read. It's just unfortunate they are very far and few between.

P.S. I'm not trying to offend any fellow indian member. I'm just sharing my 2 cents on the topic. However, if you do feel offended then sorry in advance.

Kind regards.

 

[Vassnti]

India voices concerns over US drone sale to Pak

India does not have anything equivalent to the predators and there is concern about India having them. Currently India is working to get an equivalent of the predator. This is the Harop system from Israel but it will be a long time before India gets them, he added.

India voices concerns over US drone sale to Pak

A long time? NISHANT UAV to be handed over to Indian Army soon | India Defence

The country's premier agency in the aviation sector, Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) will be handing over NISHANT, it's first indigenously made Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) to Indian Army very soon. NISHANT, which means 'end of darkness' is a tactical UAV and can be employed in tactical areas in a local domain.

"The limited series production is specially prepared for Indian Army as per their requirements. The confirmatory trials of NISHANT are planned and it is ready for delivery", Project Director, ADE, Shri G Srinivasa Murthy said.

 

[PAFAce]

Of course India doesn't want us to have this capability. This is pretty advanced technology we're talking about. The Predator is a pioneering system. However, the fact remains that this type of a remotely piloted system has not yet been tested in a conventional scenario. No doubt it will be beneficial to have, but how useful will it really be against an enemy like India? There really is no answer to that.

Therefore, yes India will complain, but in the long term, they won't lose sleep over this the way they did over the F-16s in the 80s and 90s. If anything, India should be happy with this deal. We know how beneficial drones have been in COIN ops. Aren't they the ones pushing us to "eliminate terrorists who wish to harm India" in Pakistan? This is a good time for India to prove that they are not hypocrites. If they truly want what is good for the region, we should not hear much more about this from them. On the other hand, if all they want is a bully's edge over Pakistan, well then...

Edit
By the way, are there any reliable sources that claim this deal is even on the table? Or is this just from the Pakistan Army wish list?

 

[hack]

Pakistan won't get it...Zardari has been asking for this for some time.Only the closest allies of the US have got this and Pakistan is not a close ally.And in the current political environment with Obama on the backfoot,he won't even dare do any controversial moves.

Anyway from what I have seen of US military sales..even if the assets are bought,they wont allow them to be used by the buyer against US interest.So even if the US sells Pakistan the Predator,if she does not want Pakistan to use them against India they wont be.Sometimes I wonder why anyone even someone buys American equipment with the inevitable strings attached.

 

[PAFAce]

Anyway from what I have seen of US military sales..even if the assets are bought,they wont allow them to be used by the buyer against US interest.So even if the US sells Pakistan the Predator,if she does not want Pakistan to use them against India they wont be.Sometimes I wonder why anyone even someone buys American equipment with the inevitable strings attached.

No such restriction exists on the F-16s, and the Indians won't buy the F-18s and F-16s from you if similar restrictions are placed on them. Also, Israel, the closest ally the US has, won't give two sh*ts about whether American interests are harmed in their strikes. Of course, it doesn't bother them that US policy aligns itself with Israeli interests anytime they do something. Most countries the US sells to don't end up going to war with it or against its interests. But if they did, everybody would use all they have. Do not expect the PAF to ground its F-16s if war with India were to become a reality out of fear of Uncle Sam.

We may or may not get the Predator, but if we do, trust me, it won't be because of Zardari.

 

[hack]

No such restriction exists on the F-16s, and the Indians won't buy the F-18s and F-16s from you if similar restrictions are placed on them. Most country the US sells to don't end up going to war with it or against its interests. But if they did, everybody would use all they have.

We may or may not get the Predator, but if we do, trust me, Zardari will have as much to do with it than the Prime Minister of Canada.

There is always restrictions on American military hardware sold.The F16's sold to Pakistan are inspected every year to see what has been done with them(for instance to ensure they are not reverse engineered or modified without approval) and when sanctions were imposed,spare parts were held back which grounded a lot of the fleet.

I don't know how much this is true..but I have been reading on forums that during the Israel-Hezbullah war in 06, stingers which Hezbullah managed to get their hands on would not fire against Israeli aircraft as it's software detected friendly aircraft.

I just mentioned Zardari as I have seen him on TV here asking for drones.

 

[PAFAce]

There is always restrictions on American military hardware sold.The F16's sold to Pakistan are inspected every year to see what has been done with them(for instance to ensure they are not reverse engineered or modified without approval) and when sanctions were imposed,spare parts were held back which grounded a lot of the fleet.

I would take that claim with a table-spoon full of salt. Where did you hear this? Also, who inspects them? Lockheed representatives? I doubt PAF would allow that. What we do with our F-16s is our business, really. And they have most assuredly been studied as much as possible.

I don't know how much this is true..but I have been reading on forums that during the Israel-Hezbullah war in 06, stingers which Hezbullah managed to get their hands on would not fire against Israeli aircraft as it's software detected friendly aircraft.

May have been the case in that particular conflict with that particular weapon system, but it's not true for Pakistani F-16s. If it were, we wouldn't buy them.

I just mentioned Zardari as I have seen him on TV here asking for drones.

I understand.

 

[hj786]

Just remember the Phalcon will be watching ya.

Don't worry, if the PAF are smart, they'll ensure Phalcon has plenty of "targets" to watch.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/330461-post15.html

Air Commodore (Retd) Shahid Kamal Khan
This is the strategic imperative, stated perforce in summary here. There is an attendant requirement; a reevaluation of tactics. I have always believed that the concept of SEAD, Suppression of Enemy Air Defences is nugatory. In short duration, fixed inventory fights the aim should be to do exactly the opposite. We must actually have a well-developed strategy of Enemy Air Defence Excitation. We must trigger the enemy air defences frequently, repeatedly, realistically. Excite them in a manner that ensures that he expends his limited resources while we conserve ours. Defence Suppression enables the exact opposite. The enemy conserves while we expend.

We need to develop and deploy a substantial arsenal of drones, decoys, spurious track generators. False targets, false alarms, real engagements, real responses. Cheap and plentiful triggers forcing expensive and complex solutions. Electronic emitters that duplicate radar signatures of strike aircraft. Long range artillery shells that dispense clouds of intelligent micro emitters deep inside hostile territory. These are but examples; there are many, many more options, cheaper, better, indigenously produced and sophisticated enough that can fool the Phalcon. To be more precise, fool the Indians that fly the Phalcon. Of this I am sure.

The Phalcon system shall enable the Indians to see more. Let us show them more. A whole lot more. Let us devise means that overwhelm their early warning systems. Let us excite their defences, encourage them to expend their weapons, their energies, their countermeasures. Let us deplete their inventory and their will. Done rightly and purposefully it can redress the force imbalance at far lesser cost and with substantially more effectiveness.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Air Commodore (Retd) Shahid Kamal Khan was born in Abbottabad, Pakistan in I948. He was commissioned in the PAF in 1966 and retired in August, 1998. During a service span of 32 years as a fighter pilot, he flew all frontline aircraft of the PAF.

http://www.idaerospace.com/tornado.html

ID Aerospace
INTEGRATED DYNAMICS is a full-service UAV systems provider based in Karachi, Pakistan.



The TORNADO is a lightweight, high-speed, mini-turbojet decoy system with autonomous navigation, pre-strike decoy and fire & forget capabilities.

A TORNADO system consists of 8 decoy aircraft, a pneumatic catapult launcher system and a portable ground station for pre-programming mission profiles. The TORNADO is designed for decoy missions where simulation of actual fighter aircraft is required and the ground control stations provides simultaneous multiple-vehicle flight capability with a range in excess of 200 km.

 

[SBD-3]

If pakistan can kill the terrorists with drones then i would tell u guys to go for it, its better to do the job urself than letting yankees do it. But hey, if we Indians ever spot that aircraft on our airspace surveilling on Indian territory, then that bird is good as dead. Just remember the Phalcon will be watching ya.

don't think IAF will bring its most precious asset so close to border as PAF has FT-2000 and BVR capability now so to much risk for IAF in doing this.Most likely use of predator will be counter terrorism and possible border surveillance I don't think US will sell them to PA as it will give PA ability to engage the high value targets at will which will jeopardize the interest of "Trio logy" I hope you guys can understand

 

[graphican]

Just remember the Phalcon will be watching ya.

Phalcon ? Whoo? Chacha Phalcon?

 

[BATMAN]

To me this thread is usual business for India. Whenever, Pakistan buys/tries to buy some military hardware there are 'concerns of it being used against India' whilst, whatever India buys it's all for 'defence'.

Drones are seeked for use against indian army operating in SAWAT, disguised as Taliban.

Politicians of india and army work hand in hand. You will never see politicians seperating themself from the actions of its military.

In Pakistan politicans have a price this is why when US signed nuclear proliferation agreement with india both leaders got there share to keep there mouth shut.