India,US to sign key defence logistics deal

[dadeechi]

India,US to sign key defence logistics deal

New Delhi, August 9:

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar is likely to visit the US later this year, and both the countries are likely to sign the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA), which was finalised by Prime Minister Narendra Modi in June.

The LEMOA is expected to be signed in the presence of Parrikar and US Secretary of Defence Ashton Carter. The agreement was agreed in-principle in April this year. The dates for Parriker’s visit are yet to be finalised.

Once signed, India and the US will be able to share their military facilities whenever required. According to a joint statement, this will lead to enhanced military-to-military cooperation especially in joint exercises, training and humanitarian assistance and disaster relief.

The US has already stated that India is its “major defence partner” and will continue to work towards facilitating technology sharing with it to a level commensurate with that of its closest allies and partners.

“While the agreement has already been finalised, the signing remains to be done. Only then can the agreement be put to use,” an official told BusinessLine requesting anonymity.

LEMOA is one of three foundational agreements that US signs with countries that it recognises as ‘priority defence partner’. The US had been pushing India to sign this pact along with the Communications Interoperability and Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-spatial Cooperation (BECA) for deeper defence and strategic ties.

Apparently, the visit was finalised during the visit of US Under Secretary of Defence for Acquisition, Technology & Logistics Frank Kendall to India last month.

Sources also said that both sides have made “some progress” in BECA, which will entail critical information exchange between both the militaries. The issue was also discussed during the semi-annual Defense Technology and Trade Initiative held during Kendall’s visit. The next DTTI will be held in Washington in January 2017.

The US is now India’s largest defence partner with sales reaching over $13 billion. Last month, the US and India inked a defence deal worth $1.1 billion under which India will be procuring four additional Poseidon-8I long-range surveillance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft over and above the eight that Indian Navy already possesses.

(This article was published on August 9, 2016)

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...key-defence-logistics-deal/article8964953.ece

 

[Aero]

@dadeechi
Any information about terms of Logistics deal,like how much access they will get?

 

[dadeechi]

@dadeechi
Any information about terms of Logistics deal,like how much access they will get?

More than the letter it is the spirit and intent that is key in such agreements. The agreement itself provides enough room to swing the pendulum either way depending on the relationship between the nations at that point in time.

The other dimension is how does China react? China could react with its charm offensive to keep the pendulum balanced or could react with negative offensive which might push India more and more towards US.

The agreement is not a blank check yet but India is signaling that it is willingness to write the check. Only time will tell what the amount on the check would be or would it be a blank check.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

A good article on Indian Express was published in June 2016. Reproducing below some key points from it

++

Features:

• LEMOA allows each military to avail logistics support facilities — fuel, spare parts, mechanics, etc. — of the other while on joint training, Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief (HADR), and port calls.
• The agreement lays out the procedure for billing for these facilities as part of a larger accounting transaction, and details are contained in the clarifying protocols annexed to LEMOA.
• Under LEMOA, while Indian logistics support will be available to the US military, Indian armed forces will benefit from access to a large number of US military bases globally, particularly while undertaking HADR missions in a diaspora crisis.
• It will allow India to respond promptly to emerging situations or humanitarian crises, and will expand Indian military’s operational environment globally.

Major Defence partner

• The US has recognised India as a Major Defence Partner (MDP). This follows a long-standing Indian demand to provide predictability and transparency in the US system that approves transfer of military equipment and technology.
• MDP is not an established category, and this nomenclature has been especially created for India, because a legislative amendment to bring a change in India’s status would have been a long-drawn and difficult process.
• By recognising India as an MDP, the White House is signalling its system to expedite Indian defence licences.
• Coupled with India’s entry into the MTCR, this is going to help India get modern defence technology from the US by moving to the approved category of the Arms Control List.
• But as it is neither a Presidential Directive nor a legislative amendment, the robustness of the process will be brought out by the outcomes.

White Shipping Agreement

• The Statement welcomes the conclusion of a technical arrangement for sharing “White Shipping” information.
• The countries signed the White Shipping Agreement (WSA) last month, which enhances their maritime domain awareness and fits in with the Maritime Security Dialogue, the only 2+2 dialogue that India has with any country.
• The WSA establishes an information network protocol that allows the two navies to exchange information about ships in their waters.
• Ships are usually classified into white (commercial ships), grey (military vessels), and black (illegal vessels).
• After signing the WSA, the two sides will be able to exchange information about white ships, which may not be known to the other side.

Information Exchange Annex

• India is constructing an indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC-1) at its shipyard in Cochin, and has plans for a second aircraft carrier (IAC-2) in the near future.
• For availing technologies available with the US, an agreement and protocol for sharing information — maintaining its confidentiality and integrity — was needed to be signed.
• The Information Exchange Annex is that protocol. Since then, a team of senior US Navy officials has visited the shipyard at Cochin last month to help with some issues in the IAC-1.

Source: http://indianexpress.com/article/ex...actor-lemoa-white-shipping-agreement-2842064/

 

[yolo2016]

More than the letter it is the spirit and intent that is key in such agreements. The agreement itself provides enough room to swing the pendulum either way depending on the relationship between the nations at that point in time.

The other dimension is how does China react? China could react with its charm offensive to keep the pendulum balanced or could react with negative offensive which might push India more and more towards US.

The agreement is not a blank check yet but India is signaling that it is willingness to write the check. Only time will tell what the amount on the check would be or would it be a blank check.

'blank check, how will china react'
You have a lot of marsala in your reply bud, lol

Unlike China, we are not getting parts of Kashmir handed to us, or complete sovereignty over ports. You are getting more from this "logistics only" deal.

 

[Aero]

@dadeechi @PARIKRAMA

I think if deal signed India should restrict US component to bases only or area allowed as there are many incidents in japan about unprofessional behavior of US personnels.

What you guys think?

@PARIKRAMA
>>Major Defence Partner
If US helps us in EMALS,Jet engine and stealth tech only then it will matter something actually.

'
Unlike China, we are not getting parts of Kashmir handed to us, or complete sovereignty over ports. You are getting more from this "logistics only" deal.

That is military controlled nation and only in name is democratic. Not comparable to india.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

@dadeechi @PARIKRAMA

I think if deal signed India should restrict US component to bases only or area allowed as there are many incidents in japan about unprofessional behavior of US personnels.

What you guys think?

@PARIKRAMA
>>Major Defence Partner
If US helps us in EMALS,Jet engine and stealth tech only then it will matter something actually.

Well that restriction to in and around base area is something which only GOI can comment upon. Yes after prolong time in seas, men will have to be handled with care or else incidents of unprofessional behaviors would occur surely.

What may worry me is somethings like that may mean a thriving profession of flesh trade done illegally and increase the risk of STDs and other associated societal disorders due to such situations. So this aspect has to be handled more sensitively.

About Partner point, I always said US India relation ship is more of a PR exercise.. lots of talks very much less/limited things actually on the ground.

Yes EMALS, Jet Engines, Planes with no restrictions and substantial TOT etc if its passed on then surely we all can benefit from all foundation agreements. But technology is under Senate control and till now countries like Israel, UK, Japan and Australia also dont get everything inspite of much better and closer relationship with USA.

So we need to see really if USA walks the talk or just says for the sake of it in a PR exercise.

 

[faithfulguy]

@dadeechi @PARIKRAMA

I think if deal signed India should restrict US component to bases only or area allowed as there are many incidents in japan about unprofessional behavior of US personnels.

What you guys think?

@PARIKRAMA
>>Major Defence Partner
If US helps us in EMALS,Jet engine and stealth tech only then it will matter something actually.


That is military controlled nation and only in name is democratic. Not comparable to india.

US will set up a listening station in the north and take over part of Port Blair. A while back, Indians claim that it will ever allow anyone to station troops in India. I guess most Indians are now excited US will station troops inside India.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

US will set up a listening station in the north and take over part of Port Blair. A while back, Indians claim that it will ever allow anyone to station troops in India. I guess most Indians are now excited US will station troops inside India.

There was a contingency plan (first part) of stationing a elite rapid reaction troops in a northern base and associated air land campaign infra specifically to take out Pakistan's N arsenal in case of a high threat assessment. The status of this plan and its implementation as of today is Unknown.

There was a second part of the same plan which requested for placing naval assets in Andaman and Nicobar (leaving Diego permanently). That was the plan under which a 2 squadron of Growlers were suppose to come in as well along with other armed assets like the drones and a berth for a CBG and regular docking and replenishment of SSNs. In short a dedicated US base in Indian soil. Again status of this is unknown.

Publicly GOI will never agree to such requests, but here in PDF i had been raising these concerns for some good amount of time. We might not declare all out in public but may give in partial access to some of the things.

See here: I said this

https://defence.pk/threads/india-an...military-bases-and-ports.414322/#post-8012283

 

[Blue Marlin]

There was a contingency plan (first part) of stationing a elite rapid reaction troops in a northern base and associated air land campaign infra specifically to take out Pakistan's N arsenal in case of a high threat assessment. The status of this plan and its implementation as of today is Unknown.

There was a second part of the same plan which requested for placing naval assets in Andaman and Nicobar (leaving Diego permanently). That was the plan under which a 2 squadron of Growlers were suppose to come in as well along with other armed assets like the drones and a berth for a CBG and regular docking and replenishment of SSNs. In short a dedicated US base in Indian soil. Again status of this is unknown.

Publicly GOI will never agree to such requests, but here in PDF i had been raising these concerns for some good amount of time. We might not declare all out in public but may give in partial access to some of the things.

See here: I said this


View attachment 324784

View attachment 324785


https://defence.pk/threads/india-and-us-to-talk-on-giving-access-to-each-other’s-military-bases-and-ports.414322/#post-8012283

americain help wont extend that deep, remember if they give you the juicy tech then chances are that tech will be used to make products indeginous to india which are against americain/western interests/business. the best way to see it is look at other americain allies and see what they have. european countries are no problem as they are advanced enough to build their own stuff. austrailia too. japan is near enough mastered engine tech, but they are not a problem in the long term. bgut in the short to mid term......yes, south korea its a dog with a leg between its tail. they are kinda dependant on the usa and at the same time with china trying to reign in the north koreans and economically too. they do twice as much exports with china than they do with the usa.
its not as easy as packing up shop and move to india, it will take at least 30 years minimum for they to be a decent effect and by then the chinese would have dirvercified elsewhere to africa and south and central america, which is what they are doing right now. and still retain business with the west. china is not exactly blind either and they will try to counter india. china and pakistan being allies pakistan would be working against india via proxy, mole, sabotage, false following, etc............ india has been doing the same in pakistan with the mqm,bla,ttp etc..... ever heard of the saying, it takes two to tango....... thats whats happening.

if i was to be realistic here i would say india would be along the lines of vietnam, i was gonna say the philipines but......... have you seen their presidant? hes pro china. and makes donald trump look like bernie sanders.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

americain help wont extend that deep, remember if they give you the juicy tech then chances are that tech will be used to make products indeginous to india which are against americain/western interests/business. the best way to see it is look at other americain allies and see what they have. european countries are no problem as they are advanced enough to build their own stuff. austrailia too. japan is near enough mastered engine tech, but they are not a problem in the long term. bgut in the short to mid term......yes, south korea its a dog with a leg between its tail. they are kinda dependant on the usa and at the same time with china trying to reign in the north koreans and economically too. they do twice as much exports with china than they do with the usa.
its not as easy as packing up shop and move to india, it will take at least 30 years minimum for they to be a decent effect and by then the chinese would have dirvercified elsewhere to africa and south and central america, which is what they are doing right now. and still retain business with the west. china is not exactly blind either and they will try to counter india. china and pakistan being allies pakistan would be working against india via proxy, mole, sabotage, false following, etc............ india has been doing the same in pakistan with the mqm,bla,ttp etc..... ever heard of the saying, it takes two to tango....... thats whats happening.

if i was to be realistic here i would say india would be along the lines of vietnam, i was gonna say the philipines but......... have you seen their presidant? hes pro china. and makes donald trump look like bernie sanders.

unless we accept to be a vassal state or a country whose foreign policies and geo political /strategic matters are completely in sync and dictated by USA, the probability is surely there that all this news and bonhomie is just a PR exercise. Short term we will look good together , long term nothing concrete will happen on the ground....

You are correct, looking at their allies and how much actually USA has given them access to Mil tech tells you clearly where we are heading if we trust USA words blindly.