India-U.S. Bilateral: Boeing To Shift F/A-18 Assembly Line If India Buys 200 Jets

[nang2]

Thanks but no thanks. Though I believe Indian navy should go for 40 F-35s for Ins Vishaal in next decade. F-35s+E-2D advanced hawkeye makes perfect sense.

PS: Also it most probably will have American EMAL too

Until India is a close American ally, like Israel, it will stay a dream.

PS. F-35 + EMAL look like a strange combo.

 

[dadeechi]

what is special about 100 percent manufacturing, unless we scrap the rafale deal. India neither needs nor can afford 200 crafts

India can design but it cannot manufacture what it designs. This is the same story from computer chips to fighter planes as India lacks the manufacturing base unlike China.

With 100% manufacturing this gap would be plugged in.

 

[nang2]

We have little faith in HAL(Hopeless aerospace limited)

Having faith or not, it is Indian's. Nobody other than Indians will support it. A child may look ugly and behave badly but parents should never abandon him, should they?

 

[kaykay]

Until India is a close American ally, like Israel, it will stay a dream.

PS. F-35 + EMAL look like a strange combo.

We have been offered F-35s and Advanced hawkeye for sometime now.

U.S. open to selling F-35 jet fighters to India

PS: There's nothing strange about that. US is gonna operate F-35s from their new carriers( G R Ford class) with EMALs

 

[sharma1111]

Having faith or not, it is Indian's. Nobody other than Indians will support it. A child may look ugly and behave badly but parents should never abandon him, should they?

India adopted the worst type of communist culture. We have 2 communist parties who control all labor unions. These communist parties shut down 80% of industries in last 70yrs.
If they wre in china, they would have been banned for economic terrorism.


Four traits of Indian public sector
1. Inaccountability
2. These people cant be fired,suspended,demoted

3. 90% of staff is unproductive,lousy.

4. HAL outsources 90% job to private companies from fuselage manufacturing to sub-assembly.

What HAL employees do apart from drinking tea 5 times a day??
=>They barely work 5 hours a day.
Some of them integrate those large assemblies, fit weapons and do final testing.
In final assembly, they introduce defects and screw the product.

HAL has 35000+ employees but most staff dont know how to weld, tighen screws. Engineering is outside their capability. R&D is beyond their reach.

 

[livingdead]

India can design but it cannot manufacture what it designs. This is the same story from computer chips to fighter planes as India lacks the manufacturing base unlike China.

With 100% manufacturing this gap would be plugged in.

defence manufacturing is different from manufacturing goods for general consumption. We have been manufacturing russian designed crafts for ages, its not going to be a big deal to manufacture 200 more crafts. For commercial manufacturing base(like china) you need port, power, transport etc. Also need massive factories to keep the cost low because you are directly competing with china.
None special required for defence manufacturing. You are not competing to sell goods, to begin with.

Its not like we are going to be export them from India. It was cetainly a good term to select an aircraft based on this condition though, I would be happy if they manufacture rafale in India for example.

 

[dadeechi]

Having faith or not, it is Indian's. Nobody other than Indians will support it. A child may look ugly and behave badly but parents should never abandon him, should they?

No we will not abandon it but would give it a facelift by privatizing it.

 

[nang2]

We have been offered F-35s and Advanced hawkeye for sometime now.

PS: There's nothing strange about that. US is gonna operate F-35s from their new carriers( G R Ford class) with EMALs

US is selling F-35 to many countries, including many much richer countries than India. I am amazed at some Indian folks' enthusiasms on the recent defense cooperation between US and India. No country can buy her way to be great. Buying, even relying on some imports that are way beyond your own manufacturing capability, is like digging a big hole to jump in. You would pray that exporter still covers you when you are climbing your way out of that hole.

 

[Perpendicular]

200 jets will cost too much.Nothing will be there for PAKFA and AMCA.Also we will be overdependent on USA for security needs.This proposal should be considered only if full TOT of GE engines are guaranteed.

We are already getting ready to be dependent on US. Take example of GE engines, as we stand today, two of our important projects are to be dependent on GE engines.
In any future major fighter acquisition, naval version has to be considered as well, be it Rafales or F18's.

 

[livingdead]

Having faith or not, it is Indian's. Nobody other than Indians will support it. A child may look ugly and behave badly but parents should never abandon him, should they?

nobody is expecting to abandon, just have moderate expectation, she is not going to be miss universe.

 

[dadeechi]

defence manufacturing is different from manufacturing goods for general consumption. We have been manufacturing russian designed crafts for ages, its not going to be a big deal to manufacture 200 more crafts. For commercial manufacturing base(like china) you need port, power, transport etc. Also need massive factories to keep the cost low because you are directly competing with china.
None special required for defence manufacturing. You are not competing to sell goods, to begin with.

Its not like we are going to be export them from India. It was cetainly a good term to select an aircraft based on this condition though, I would be happy if they manufacture rafale in India for example.

I know a little bit about defense manufacturing. My immediate and extended families have all been with DPSUs. I myself worked at a DPSU in Bangalore for an year before taking up jobs in private sector many decades ago.

I am not talking about kit assembly work but rather manufacturing from part level manufacturing including the raw material (metallurgy, castings and treatments)

 

[sharma1111]

US is selling F-35 to many countries, including many much richer countries than India. I am amazed at some Indian folks' enthusiasms on the recent defense cooperation between US and India. No country can buy her way to be great. Buying, even relying on some imports that are way beyond your own manufacturing capability, is like digging a big hole to jump in. You would pray that exporter still covers you when you are climbing your way out of that hole.

some of the Indians are living in cukoo land. Poor India cant afford to import 240 mil $rafale, F-35. EMAL.
EMAL AAC is something, India should aim after 2030.


Manufacturing F-18 in India is better than importing these 5th Gen F-35 birds which will eat away major portion of our budget
What India needs is to redouble its effort on Tejas.

Delink HAL out from Tejas MK-2 and AMCA. Outsource the project to private company

 

[livingdead]

I know a little bit about defense manufacturing. My immediate and extended families have all been with DPSUs. I myself worked at a DPSU in Bangalore for an year before taking up jobs in private sector many decades ago.

I am not talking about kit assembly work but rather manufacturing from part level manufacturing including the raw material (metallurgy, castings and treatments)

I am not into it but I thought HAL is already doing that for migs? (not only assembly).

 

[dadeechi]

some of the Indians are living in cukoo land. Poor India cant afford to import 240 mil $rafale, F-35. EMAL.
EMAL AAC is something, India should aim after 2030.


Manufacturing F-18 in India is better than importing these 5th Gen F-35 birds which will eat away major portion of our budget
What India needs is to redouble its effort on Tejas.

Delink HAL out from Tejas MK-2 and AMCA. Outsource the project to private company

 

[nang2]

India adopted the worst type of communist culture. We have 2 communist parties who control all labor unions. These communist parties shut down 80% of industries in last 70yrs.
If they wre in china, they would have been banned for economic terrorism.


Four traits of Indian public sector
1. Inaccountability
2. These people cant be fired,suspended,demoted

3. 90% of staff is unproductive,lousy.

4. HAL outsources 90% job to private companies from fuselage manufacturing to sub-assembly.

What HAL employees do apart from drinking tea 5 times a day??
=>They barely work 5 hours a day.
Some of them integrate those large assemblies, fit weapons and do final testing.
In final assembly, they introduce defects and screw the product.

HAL has 35000+ employees but most staff dont know how to weld, tighen screws. Engineering is outside their capability. R&D is beyond their reach.

I am currently reading a book on India's development by some Indian economists. The name is "An Uncertain Glory". You are right on listing in-accountability as the #1. Throughout the book, this is often the one being called out.