India too working on anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM) : Drdo Chief

[Basel]

Goodnews please built it ASAP it will allow PN to acquire the same tech and use it if necessary and India will not be in position to complain or use nukes as excuse of using BMs.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

Goodnews please built it ASAP it will allow PN to acquire the same tech and use it if necessary and India will not be in position to complain or use nukes as excuse of using BMs.

why do you have to wait for india ?you have BM's convert them at your own will !

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I had read somewhere that it's very difficult to even find these CBGs on the move on high sea, forget about destroying them. And then even china till now havent test the DF-21D in land to sea configuration, they have test it in surface to surface mode. (correct me if im wrong).
Will try to find the source.

We did test it, the target ship was our retired surveillance ship.

 

[Daedalus]

With the level of senor's being laid in ocean bed or afloat, it isn't difficult to track a CBG's esp because it will have a larger signal(noise) with the number of warships

I dont think sonars cover most of the oceans, i could go a little further and say they dont even cover 1% of the ocean, otherwise MH370 could have been found by now.

We did test it, the target ship was our retired surveillance ship.

Can you please provide a source for this. And even if they tested it, it was against a stationary target.

 

[Basel]

@Mr.S.Singh who is waiting, Work in progress already, but it will be easy to use if you have them.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

I dont think sonars cover most of the oceans, i could go a little further and say they dont even cover 1% of the ocean, otherwise MH370 could have been found by now.

listening pods are what IN is doing
Maldives has one and Andaman surely has one
The the fact that they haven't heard makes things complicated

 

[Daedalus]

I had read somewhere that it's very difficult to even find these CBGs on the move on high sea, forget about destroying them. And then even china till now havent test the DF-21D in land to sea configuration, they have test it in surface to surface mode. (correct me if im wrong).
Will try to find the source.

Lastly, a word of caution for all those miserably ill-informed jingos who are under the erroneous impression that China has developed the DF-21D MRBM as an anti-ship ballistic missile. For, just consider the sheer challenges in terms of target acquisition: In case of the South China Sea, three bands of 46 satellites each (138 spacecraft in all) operating in 40-degree inclined polar orbits would be required to provide constant fleet monitoring. The size of the satellite constellation is driven by the need for continuous coverage and high resolution. High resolution dictates low-earth orbits. Low-earth orbits in turn dictate how many satellites must be in each band to avoid gaps in coverage, and also how many bands there must be to cover the whole sea given a 300nm field-of-view per band. Continuous coverage could be achieved from higher altitudes using fewer satellites, but resolution would deteriorate to a point where it was no longer suitable for use as targetting data.

TRISHUL: September 2013

I think that in times of war, they would launch many micro-EO satellites that have short duration to increase reconnaissance in the area approaching Taiwan. Similar to US, they would have HALE UAVs to do advanced scouting in front of the war zone. The OTH radar will give the base initial idea of incoming fleet. This information would be combined with data of the recon satellites to provide a more precise and more accurate targeting data. The missile would be launched to the estimated position based on initial position + velocity, but this would obviously be off. Although, I think the movement of the carrier group will not be overwhelming. If the target is 2000 km away and the missile is traveling at mach 10 (343 * 3.6 * 10 = 10,000+ km/h) , it would get there in less than 12 minutes. During that time, if the fleet moves at 30 knots, it would move at most 6 knots or around 11 km from the original location. Still, if we add this to the initial precision problems of OTH radar + EO satellite, this could still cause the fleet to be outside the scanning area of the ASBM. In the cruising process, the missile would have to continuously communicate with the base through those new Data relay satellites (like TianLian-1 that they launched recently) to get more improve the precision. The ASBM will also likely veer off the path at this time, so it would need communication with Beidou-2 constellation in order to keep it on track. When it gets close to the target, the blog talked about 3 phases in its attack: high altitude guidance, high altitude gliding and low altitude guidance. I'm really not sure how accurate is the blog's description of the process. Its general theme is slowing down the speed of the missile as it gets closer to the target to maybe give the seeker more time to lock on to target and make unpredictable movements to penetrate defense.

Information Dissemination: PLAN ASBM development

*The key words here are slowing down and unpredictable movements of the CBG. Its not like the CBGs protective suit will be a sitting duck. Slow speed means the CBG will get more time to lock on the missile.

Im posting this not to undermine the chinese achievement but to show how difficult it is to develop a ASBM without the proper infrastructure in place. If the chinese are facing these kind of problems think how difficult it will be for india to overcome such challenges. I will take whatever Dr. Avinash Chander says with a fistful of salt.

 

[gslv mk3]

Narendra Modi extremely unhappy with DRDO’s failure to meet deadlines in delivering products

We have been very much successful with our BMs.

Goodnews please built it ASAP it will allow PN to acquire the same tech and use it if necessary

Yeah right..we would also do this because India did.. Pakistan can't do everything India does ,due to many factors (Hint:Space technology).

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

@Daedalus
Rather than dedicated satellitles
sensors and listen pods along with aircraft surveillance and abit of help from satellites sound more realistic approach to monitor our sea's

 

[Daedalus]

listening pods are what IN is doing
Maldives has one and Andaman surely has one
The the fact that they haven't heard makes things complicated

That is the same point im tryin to make, these pods and sonars you are talking about will be near these shores and the countries EEZ and not on the high sea where these CBG will be lurking. Finding a CBG in the ocean is like find a needle in a hay stack.

@Daedalus
Rather than dedicated satellitles
sensors and listen pods along with aircraft surveillance and abit of help from satellites sound more realistic approach to monitor our sea's

I thought we were talking about locating a CBG.

Yeah right..we would also do this because India did.. Pakistan can't do everything India does ,due to many factors (Hint:Space technology).

Come on now, why do you have to burst the poor guys bubble?

 

[Basel]

@gslv mk3 u didn't understand my post, we are working on it before you but it will not be easy to use them bcoz some of your countrymen said in a thread that India will see use of BMs as nuke strike.

So if India have the same they can't use that excuse to prevent Pakistan using them.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

I thought we were talking about locating a CBG.

Not only CBG's but we need to locate sub's too
only CBG we fear are chinese, which presently don't have a nuclear AC, and their current gen nuclear sub's are too loud
pitch and noise made by them could be picked up by senors bouys floating

 

[gslv mk3]

u didn't understand my post, we are working on it before you

Source ?

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

That is the same point im tryin to make, these pods and sonars you are talking about will be near these shores and the countries EEZ and not on the high sea where these CBG will be lurking. Finding a CBG in the ocean is like find a needle in a hay stack.

it would mean setting up sensors in international water i.e Malacca Straight

 

[Nan Yang]

Lastly, a word of caution for all those miserably ill-informed jingos who are under the erroneous impression that China has developed the DF-21D MRBM as an anti-ship ballistic missile. For, just consider the sheer challenges in terms of target acquisition: In case of the South China Sea, three bands of 46 satellites each (138 spacecraft in all) operating in 40-degree inclined polar orbits would be required to provide constant fleet monitoring. The size of the satellite constellation is driven by the need for continuous coverage and high resolution. High resolution dictates low-earth orbits. Low-earth orbits in turn dictate how many satellites must be in each band to avoid gaps in coverage, and also how many bands there must be to cover the whole sea given a 300nm field-of-view per band. Continuous coverage could be achieved from higher altitudes using fewer satellites, but resolution would deteriorate to a point where it was no longer suitable for use as targetting data.

TRISHUL: September 2013

I think that in times of war, they would launch many micro-EO satellites that have short duration to increase reconnaissance in the area approaching Taiwan. Similar to US, they would have HALE UAVs to do advanced scouting in front of the war zone. The OTH radar will give the base initial idea of incoming fleet. This information would be combined with data of the recon satellites to provide a more precise and more accurate targeting data. The missile would be launched to the estimated position based on initial position + velocity, but this would obviously be off. Although, I think the movement of the carrier group will not be overwhelming. If the target is 2000 km away and the missile is traveling at mach 10 (343 * 3.6 * 10 = 10,000+ km/h) , it would get there in less than 12 minutes. During that time, if the fleet moves at 30 knots, it would move at most 6 knots or around 11 km from the original location. Still, if we add this to the initial precision problems of OTH radar + EO satellite, this could still cause the fleet to be outside the scanning area of the ASBM. In the cruising process, the missile would have to continuously communicate with the base through those new Data relay satellites (like TianLian-1 that they launched recently) to get more improve the precision. The ASBM will also likely veer off the path at this time, so it would need communication with Beidou-2 constellation in order to keep it on track. When it gets close to the target, the blog talked about 3 phases in its attack: high altitude guidance, high altitude gliding and low altitude guidance. I'm really not sure how accurate is the blog's description of the process. Its general theme is slowing down the speed of the missile as it gets closer to the target to maybe give the seeker more time to lock on to target and make unpredictable movements to penetrate defense.

Information Dissemination: PLAN ASBM development

*The key words here are slowing down and unpredictable movements of the CBG. Its not like the CBGs protective suit will be a sitting duck. Slow speed means the CBG will get more time to lock on the missile.

Im posting this not to undermine the chinese achievement but to show how difficult it is to develop a ASBM without the proper infrastructure in place. If the chinese are facing these kind of problems think how difficult it will be for india to overcome such challenges. I will take whatever Dr. Avinash Chander says with a fistful of salt.

I think you assume a direct hit by one missile. What if you launch 100 missiles and each have 3 warheads with fragmentation warhead ? The idea is to disable the carrier. Not sink it. However, once it is disable................