India to ink largest-ever defence deal with the US soon
- Thread starter mohammadkhan70
- Start date
XYON
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2008
- Messages
- 1,719
- Reaction score
- 2
- Country
- Location
Here we go, this is quite a comprehensive article on this purchase by India!
Indias Navy Picks Its Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft - India’s Navy Picks Its Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft
In a November 2005 article, DID covered Indias $133 million deal for 2 P-3C Orion maritime-optimized patrol and surveillance planes. As it happens, that deal fell through on grounds of expense, support costs, and timing. Apparently, it would have taken 18-24 months for the US Navy to retrofit the aircraft to the Indian Navys specifications, once the lease had been finalized.
In December 2005, therefore, Indias navy floated an RFP for at least 8 new maritime aircraft. Subsequent statements by Indias Admiral Prakash suggested that they could be looking for as many as 30 aircraft by 2020. Lockheed was invited to bid again, and this time, they werre not alone. The bids were submitted in April 2007. The plan was for price negotiations to be completed in 2007, with first deliveries to commence within 48 months.
Indias Ministry of Defence has extreme problems with announced schedules, but their existing fleet was wearing out, international requests for Indias maritime patrol help are rising, and some action is necessary. DID discusses the geopolitical drivers, the current fleet, and the known competitors.
As of January 2009, the competition has a winner and a deal
* With Growing Naval Power Comes Growing Naval Responsibility
* The Competitors
* Listed, But Not Submitted
* Contracts and Key Events
* Additional Readings
With Growing Naval Power Comes Growing Naval Responsibility
The competition and refurbishment efforts are being given greater impetus by international developments. IPT reports that warning bells have been sounded at an international summit over the mounting terrorist threats to sea lanes around Indonesia and the Straits of Malacca, which serves as a choke-point for a significant percentage of global shipping. At a recent high-level meeting in the United States that included Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Japan and others, a request was made for India to play a major policing role against sea-piracy in the region.
Successful procurement of these aircraft would certainly contribute to Indias capabilities, as its naval responsibilities undergo rapid growth. To the west, India is also undertaking anti-piracy efforts on the East African coast, with a base in Madagascar and a recent military co-operation agreement with Mozambique that includes coastal patrol responsibilities.
The Indian Navy currently relies on its fleet of around 15 Dornier 228-101 aircraft and 12 Israeli Searcher Mark II and Heron unmanned aerial vehicles to monitor Indias 7,516 km long coastline, 1,197 islands and a 2.01 square km exclusive economic zone.
Additional patrols and interdiction within and beyond that area are undertaken by its 8 ultra-long-range TU-142 Bear aircraft and its 2 remaining IL-38 May Maritime Surveillance Aircraft upgrades to IL-38SD status. Another 3 upgraded IL-38SDs were expected to enter service by end-2008, but the upgrades have been a flashpoint for controversy due to a May 14/07 report from Indias Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) which said that the first 2 upgraded IL-38SDs are missing essential avionics and weapon systems that are seriously limiting their operational capabilities.
In February 2006, Flight International reported that Indias navy had also set a March 2007 deadline to receive bids for 16-24 more anti-submarine warfare helicopters; but the manufacturers that were handed the tender (AgustaWestland, Eurocopter, Kamov and Sikorsky) asked for an extension. That request has factored into at least one bid proposal for Indias next generation long-range maritime patrol aircraft.
Program Timeline
Bids were received from various candidates in April 2006. A July 2007 Defense News report says that a procurement team will be sending preliminary evaluations to the Defence Ministry by September 2007, which will lead to a short list. This has happened, but the militarys wishes and development timelines for their target platforms may force a split into short-term and long-term buys. A preliminary decision and price negotiations are scheduled to begin within two years, i.e. by mid-2009.
Past experience has demonstrated that price negotiations with Indias MoD can take years themselves or even sink deals entirely, vid. the various collapsed deals for second-hand Mirage 2000 fighter jets.
The Competitors
The Times of India reports that Indias 8-10 TU-142 Bear aircraft are being retired, after negotiations with Russia and Israel to retrofit them were called off. Invited bidders (and their relevant offerings) reportedly include:
* BAE (Nimrod)
* Boeing (P-8A MMA)
* IAI/Elta (Dassault Falcon 900 MPA)
* Lockheed Martin (P-3C Orion)
* Northrop-Grumman (Global Hawk, presumably)
* EADS (CN-235MP, AT3 Atlantique, ATR-72MP, modified A319)
* Rosoboronexport (IL-38 May and TU-142 Bear, both currently in service)
The TU-142 Bear is the current incumbent. It was originally built as the TU-95 heavy bomber in the pre-jet era, before going on to a very long and successful career as the Eastern Blocs most important and longest ranging maritime surveillance and attack aircraft. A TU-142 can fly from Mumbai (Bombay) to Johannesburg, South Africa and back without refueling. Bharat-Rakshak reports that 8-10 Bears remain in service with the Indian Naval Air Arm. Supplied to India in 1987-1988, all of them have been refurbished at least once. As noted above, these aircraft are being retired, after negotiations with Russia and Israel to retrofit them were called off.
Interest in the proposed upgrades may pick up again, however, given the likely timeline for long-range replacement aircraft from Boeing or Airbus. Bharat-Rakshak notes that proposals had been floated to Russian and Israeli firms to significantly upgrade the TU-142 with the Leninets Sea Dragon common patrol suite, as well as other electronic enhancements useful for surveillance and even electronic warfare. Proposed Sea Dragon upgrades were rejected on cost and performance grounds, which led to discussions around an Israeli IAI Elta surveillance and communications package based around the AN/M-2202A radar used in Spains P-3C upgrades. These upgrades may even have been installed on at least one aircraft.
P-8A MMA and cutaway
P-8A MMA
(click for labeled cutaway)
DID has covered the Boeing 737-derived P-8A MMA program in-depth, including Indias interest in the P-3 Orions successor. The P-8A is not expected to be available before 2013-2014. Nevertheless, The Times of Indias sources in the Indian Navy believe that the P-8A would match the combined operational profile presently being executed by its existing fleet of Ilyushin Il-38 Mays and TU-142 Bears. Given the limited remaining lifetime of even the refurbished IL-38SDs, a long-term solution is understandably attractive.
As DID has noted before, India also considers its involvement in the Boeing MMA program a test of Washingtons long-term military and strategic commitment to India. Significant distrust remains in the wake of the USAs 1988 embargo of military exports to India and Pakistan following underground nuclear tests an embargo that was only lifted fully in September of 2004. While its timeline may pose problems, just having the P-8A offered and cleared for export has been the one of the biggest benefits India received from this RFP; the Pentagon has also pledged to make additional technical military capabilities available to New Delhi as they enter US service.
In the end, Team Boeing submitted its proposal to develop and deliver 8 P-8I Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft variants, touting its commonality and supportability benefits (q.v. April 13/07 update). The proposal includes the development of a unique Indian navy P-8 configuration, significant participation for Indian industry, test and certification activities, and 8 aircraft delivered over a 4-year period. This appears to be the winning proposal.
Dont count out the old standby P-3C Orion just yet. Lockheeds bid reportedly included a combination offer: 8 upgraded US Navy P-3C aircraft for $550-700 million; and 16 multi-mission MH-60R helicopters from Sikorsky costing $350-400 million.
This platform is in service with 15 nations, and Lockheed-Martin still hopes to reach 16 by adding India. Press Trust of India reports Lockheed VP Richard Kirkland as saying their bid will offer P-3C Orions which have completely been refurbished with new wing-spans and tails to serve almost a life time of 20 years We are offering the Navy the choice of sensors and equipment to be placed onboard and the configuration it wants either for long-range maritime reconnaissance or anti-submarine mode. Lockheed recently opened a plant to manufacture wings for old P-3C aircraft, as a way of keeping P-3C fleets flying in the 15 countries that use the aircraft. The refurbished aircraft with new hydraulic jigs, composite-wing spans and tails are already being delivered to the US Navy and some other international customers, and Kirkland contends that shorter delivery time will be an advantage for Lockheed this time around.
September 2007 reports add that the lead time for a long-range P-8A or Airbus 319 solution have led to a second look at the P-3C option, but that appears to have faded.
EADS maritime patrol offerings include EADS-CASAs CN-235MP Persuader in service with a number of countries, and the twin-turboprop AT3 Atlantique offered as part of the SECBAT consortium (EADS, Dassault Aviation of France, Alenia of Italy, and SABCA-SONACA of Belgium). While these are capable aircraft, their range and payload limitations may make them a dubious contender to replace the TU-142. Further up the range scale, maritime variants of their ATR 42 and ATR 72 short-haul passenger turboprops are produced for some customers, and EADS also refurbishes and maintains Spanish P-3C Orion aircraft.
In the end, however, their primary offering was none of the above. A July 2007 Defense News report suggests that rather than using any of the proven designs above, EADS is leveraging equipment from these efforts to propose a maritime patrol variant of the Airbus A319 passenger jet for this competition. The design is not expected to become operational before 2014, however, which means that EADS shorter-range options may become relevant again if Indias Navy seeks an interim buy as part of a package deal, or wants to complement its forces with medium range aircraft.
Airbus and Boeing have both made substantial investments in India, and both are seriously examining the possibility of partnering with Indian companies to jointly develop communications, data-link and identification friend-or-foe (IFF) equipment as part of their bids.
Russias IL-38 May is about the same vintage as the P-3C Orion. Only 3 aircraft remain in Indian service from the original set of 5, after 2 of the aircraft were lost in an airshow collision. Unlike the TU-142s, however, the status of their upgrades is clear. India Defence reports that the first of 3 improved Il-38SD maritime anti-submarine warfare (ASW) aircraft has been delivered to the Indian Navy following upgrades in Russia, at a cost of about $35 million per plane.
The IL-38 upgrade includes the Leninets Morskoy Zmei (Sea Dragon) digital common patrol suite, which is designed to detect and intercept surface vessels and submarines as well as detect mines and carry out surveillance. Like the Israeli M-2202A, the suite can also detect airborne targets, and it can be linked to the Russian Glonass GPS satellite navigation system. Indias Defence Research and Development Organisation has supplied the new IL-38SDs electronic intelligence system, electronic countermeasures station system, digital firing decoys and radio communication system. India also plans to mount the medium-range PJ-10 BrahMos supersonic cruise missile on this aircraft in the near future.
Another 4 similarly upgraded IL-38SDs were scheduled for delivery to the Indian Navy by early in 2007, bringing the fleet to 7 but the upgrades themselves have had problems due to poor delivery from DRDO, and the age of refurbished airframes has to be a concern for a long-term buy like the LRMR competition. The IL-38SD may become an interim buy option, however, if Indias preferred choice is not immediately available.
There were reports in April 2005 that India might be interested in a modified MPA based on Dassaults high-end Falcon 900 business jet. Though the platform was absent from most subsequent coverage, the reports turned out to be true.
In September 2007, IANS reported that Israel Aerospace Industries and its subsidiary Elta Systems had submitted a proposal based on this jet, leveraging Elta systems extensive experience with naval radars and other surveillance systems, and IAIs experience converting business jets into surveillance platforms. The tri-engine Falcon 900 may be a business jet, but its known as a VIP class offering with a lot of space and a 4,100-4,500 nautical mile (7,600-8,330 km) unrefueled range.
The Falcon 900 is many things, but cheap is not one of them. Bid prices could easily approach those of larger aircraft like the refurbished P-3Cs, which may complicate IAIs odds of being selected as an interim solution. On the other hand, Israel has deep relationships of its own in India, and IAIs Heron and Searcher II UAVs could allow IAI to offer an integrated manned/ unmanned surveillance system that costs far less than higher-end options like the P-8A/BAMS, and offers proven aircraft/UAV integration that can be added to larger aircraft like the A319 or P-8A later on.
Listed, But Not Submitted
Some manufacturers were included in the tender, but did not submit a bid.
BAE Systems modernized Nimrod MRA4 program received consideration from the USA as a replacement option for its P-3C Orions, but pressures for standardization with the global civil air fleet and a desire for a made in America solution pushed them to adopt the 737-based P-8A instead. A British program was begun in 1996 to rebuild their existing Nimrod Mk2 fleet to the MRA4 standard with new wings, engines, internal systems, and mission systems. Unfortunately, that program faced a series of budget cuts, stalls, and conditions before getting a go-ahead for 12 aircraft in July 2006.
At present, the first Nimrod MRA4 isnt expected to enter service until around 2010. Given the cutbacks in the modernization program, however, some older Nimrod Mk2 and MR1 airframes might have become available for sale and refurbishment.
Northrop-Grumman, which has held discussions with India around its E-2D Hawkeye 2000 carrier-capable AWACS aircraft, is also listed as one of the solicited companies by the India Defence report. The only asset they have which would fit the maritime surveillance category, however, is the RQ-4 Global Hawk High-Altitude, Long Endurance (HALE) UAV. As DID has noted, the Global Hawk is slated for a Maritime Surveillance role with the USA and Australia; indeed, a Pacific pool approach similar to the NATO E-3 AWACS model, and involving The USA, Australia, Japan, Singapore, and Thailand, is currently under active consideration.
A recent demonstration flight using a smaller RQ-4A Global Hawk took off from Adelaide, Australia and spent loiter time over Japan and Singapore before returning. While the Global Hawk lacks the payload capacity for sonobuoys, missiles, etc. possessed by all other contenders, the prospect of joining other friendly countries and sharing in the resulting intelligence data from all over the Pacific could be very interesting. It would sharply blunt Indias long-range offensive capabilities once the TU-142s were retired, but if this was seen as a bridge until the P-8As arrival, the intelligence benefits could make the proposal very attractive. Nevertheless, media reports do not list Northrop Grumman among the RFP respondents.
Contracts and Key Events
Dec 5/08: Winner! The Indian government announces that it has signed a $2.1 billion deal with Boeing for 8 maritime patrol aircraft in P-8i configuration. The $2.1 billion figure is the commonly reported total at the moment; DID cautions readers that exact dollar figures for Indian contracts often take some time to clarify. The contract reportedly includes lifetime maintenance support, and an option for another 8 aircraft. Indian Navy spokesman Commander Nirad Sinha:
Though we have signed a deal, final clearance is still required from a U.S. authority . The first plane delivery is four years from the final contract signing, so I think it should come in 2013.
Boeings release commits to delivering the 8th aircraft by 2015. See: Boeing | India Defence | CNN Money.
Dec 29/08: The P-8I deal for India appears to be moving closer. India Defence reports that virtually all the steps required for the contract to be signed, including tabling of it in the Cabinet Committee on Security for approval, are complete. Reports place the deal at Rs 8,500 crore (about $1.7 billion) for 8 jets, with first delivery coming within 4 years and all deliveries by 2015. India currently flies 8 Tu-142s. India Defence | StrategyPage.
Aug 10/08: Sindh Today reports that India s contract negotiating committee has completed its report on price negotiations with Boeing, after the P-8I won the technical bid and the trials of the product. Negotiations were reportedly stuck due to the end-user agreement, under which Boeing can conduct physical inspections of the aircraft as and when it wants to check if the product is being used for the purpose it has been acquired. This is linked to requirements under American ITAR laws, which regulate sales of military equipment whether they are conducted as FMS or direct commercial sales. Indias defence ministry reportedly separated that set of negotiations from the deal itself, knowing that a signed deal will be significantly harder to cancel, on either side.
The contract will reportedly be a direct commercial agreement between the Boeing company and the Indian Navy, rather than an announced Foreign Military Sale. The cost is reportedly around around $2.2 billion, and that deal will now go to the defence acquisition committee (DAC) and then to the cabinet committee on security (CCS) for approval.
Aug 9/08: During a lecture in New Delhi, Indian Naval Chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta reportedly vowed that:
By 2022, we plan to have 160-plus ship navy, including three aircraft carriers, 60 major combatants including submarines and close to 400 aircraft of different types. This will be a formidable three dimensional force with satellite surveillance and networking to provide force multiplication
AP Pakistan | domain-B
April 20/08: Indias NDTV reports that:
India is set to sign a $2.2 billion deal, its biggest with the US, for eight long-range maritime reconnaissance (LRMR) aircraft, even as the Indian Navy chief opposed intrusiveness in the use of military hardware the country purchases.
Negotiations for the purchase of the Boeing-P8I LRMR aircraft are in the final stages and are likely to be wrapped up during Indian Navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehtas visit to the US that began Sunday [DID: That did not happen]. The agreement for the purchase under the US Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route will be signed between the two governments in New Delhi later this year, official sources said.
AIR A319 Indian Airlines
A319, Indian Air
(click to view full)
Sept 7/07: Indias IANS wire service reports that the Indian Navy has completed evaluations of maritime patrol aircraft (MRA) on schedule, including a 4-member navy team led by a one-star officer who observed MRA derivative trials and simulations in July 2007 for the Airbus A319 in Spain and Boeings P-8A Poseidon MMA in the US. WebIndia story.
They also offer a list of bids submitted: Boeing, EADS Airbus, IAI/Elta, Lockheed Martin, and Rosoboronexport; plus this interesting tidbit:
But official sources said since the navy was more interested in the longer range MRAs still under development, it was seriously considering acquiring two or three of the existing shorter range aircraft as an interim measure to plug a vital operational void in patrolling Indias vast coastline.
July 3/07: Defense News reports that Indian officials will be studying Boeing and Airbus aircraft in France, Germany, Spain and the United States as they prepare for a decision re: their maritime patrol aircraft competition. Defense News report.
Dont get too excited about outcomes, though; Indias procurement system has already solicited bids, and will be sending preliminary evaluations go to the Defence Ministry by September 2007, which will lead to a short list of bidders. A preliminary decision and price negotiations will begin within two years. Past experience has demonstrated that such price negotiations can take years themselves or even sink deals entirely.
May 14/07: Indias Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) warned in a report that the first 2 of 5 upgraded IL-38SDs remain without essential avionics and weapon systems that are seriously limiting their [the Il-38SDs] operational capabilities. The problem? As usual unrealistic assumption about the capability of timely indigenous development of certain avionics systems, and lead-time for import of necessary weapon systems. India Defence | Times of India
April 20/06: Lockheeds deal reportedly includes a combination offer: 8 upgraded US Navy P-3C aircraft for $550-700 million; and 16 multi-mission MH-60R helicopters from Sikorsky costing $350-400 million.
April 13/06: Team Boeing announces its proposal to develop and deliver 8 P-8I Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft variants, touting its commonality and supportability benefits. The Boeing team includes CFM, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and Smiths Aerospace, and their proposal includes the development of a unique Indian navy P-8 configuration, significant participation for Indian industry, test and certification activities, and 8 aircraft delivered over a 4-year period. See release and note that Boeing just pledged to invest $1.5 billion in Indias aerospace industry, as part of a $6 billion deal with Air India.
Indias Navy Picks Its Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft - India’s Navy Picks Its Future Maritime Patrol Aircraft
In a November 2005 article, DID covered Indias $133 million deal for 2 P-3C Orion maritime-optimized patrol and surveillance planes. As it happens, that deal fell through on grounds of expense, support costs, and timing. Apparently, it would have taken 18-24 months for the US Navy to retrofit the aircraft to the Indian Navys specifications, once the lease had been finalized.
In December 2005, therefore, Indias navy floated an RFP for at least 8 new maritime aircraft. Subsequent statements by Indias Admiral Prakash suggested that they could be looking for as many as 30 aircraft by 2020. Lockheed was invited to bid again, and this time, they werre not alone. The bids were submitted in April 2007. The plan was for price negotiations to be completed in 2007, with first deliveries to commence within 48 months.
Indias Ministry of Defence has extreme problems with announced schedules, but their existing fleet was wearing out, international requests for Indias maritime patrol help are rising, and some action is necessary. DID discusses the geopolitical drivers, the current fleet, and the known competitors.
As of January 2009, the competition has a winner and a deal
* With Growing Naval Power Comes Growing Naval Responsibility
* The Competitors
* Listed, But Not Submitted
* Contracts and Key Events
* Additional Readings
With Growing Naval Power Comes Growing Naval Responsibility
The competition and refurbishment efforts are being given greater impetus by international developments. IPT reports that warning bells have been sounded at an international summit over the mounting terrorist threats to sea lanes around Indonesia and the Straits of Malacca, which serves as a choke-point for a significant percentage of global shipping. At a recent high-level meeting in the United States that included Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Japan and others, a request was made for India to play a major policing role against sea-piracy in the region.
Successful procurement of these aircraft would certainly contribute to Indias capabilities, as its naval responsibilities undergo rapid growth. To the west, India is also undertaking anti-piracy efforts on the East African coast, with a base in Madagascar and a recent military co-operation agreement with Mozambique that includes coastal patrol responsibilities.
The Indian Navy currently relies on its fleet of around 15 Dornier 228-101 aircraft and 12 Israeli Searcher Mark II and Heron unmanned aerial vehicles to monitor Indias 7,516 km long coastline, 1,197 islands and a 2.01 square km exclusive economic zone.
Additional patrols and interdiction within and beyond that area are undertaken by its 8 ultra-long-range TU-142 Bear aircraft and its 2 remaining IL-38 May Maritime Surveillance Aircraft upgrades to IL-38SD status. Another 3 upgraded IL-38SDs were expected to enter service by end-2008, but the upgrades have been a flashpoint for controversy due to a May 14/07 report from Indias Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) which said that the first 2 upgraded IL-38SDs are missing essential avionics and weapon systems that are seriously limiting their operational capabilities.
In February 2006, Flight International reported that Indias navy had also set a March 2007 deadline to receive bids for 16-24 more anti-submarine warfare helicopters; but the manufacturers that were handed the tender (AgustaWestland, Eurocopter, Kamov and Sikorsky) asked for an extension. That request has factored into at least one bid proposal for Indias next generation long-range maritime patrol aircraft.
Program Timeline
Bids were received from various candidates in April 2006. A July 2007 Defense News report says that a procurement team will be sending preliminary evaluations to the Defence Ministry by September 2007, which will lead to a short list. This has happened, but the militarys wishes and development timelines for their target platforms may force a split into short-term and long-term buys. A preliminary decision and price negotiations are scheduled to begin within two years, i.e. by mid-2009.
Past experience has demonstrated that price negotiations with Indias MoD can take years themselves or even sink deals entirely, vid. the various collapsed deals for second-hand Mirage 2000 fighter jets.
The Competitors
The Times of India reports that Indias 8-10 TU-142 Bear aircraft are being retired, after negotiations with Russia and Israel to retrofit them were called off. Invited bidders (and their relevant offerings) reportedly include:
* BAE (Nimrod)
* Boeing (P-8A MMA)
* IAI/Elta (Dassault Falcon 900 MPA)
* Lockheed Martin (P-3C Orion)
* Northrop-Grumman (Global Hawk, presumably)
* EADS (CN-235MP, AT3 Atlantique, ATR-72MP, modified A319)
* Rosoboronexport (IL-38 May and TU-142 Bear, both currently in service)
The TU-142 Bear is the current incumbent. It was originally built as the TU-95 heavy bomber in the pre-jet era, before going on to a very long and successful career as the Eastern Blocs most important and longest ranging maritime surveillance and attack aircraft. A TU-142 can fly from Mumbai (Bombay) to Johannesburg, South Africa and back without refueling. Bharat-Rakshak reports that 8-10 Bears remain in service with the Indian Naval Air Arm. Supplied to India in 1987-1988, all of them have been refurbished at least once. As noted above, these aircraft are being retired, after negotiations with Russia and Israel to retrofit them were called off.
Interest in the proposed upgrades may pick up again, however, given the likely timeline for long-range replacement aircraft from Boeing or Airbus. Bharat-Rakshak notes that proposals had been floated to Russian and Israeli firms to significantly upgrade the TU-142 with the Leninets Sea Dragon common patrol suite, as well as other electronic enhancements useful for surveillance and even electronic warfare. Proposed Sea Dragon upgrades were rejected on cost and performance grounds, which led to discussions around an Israeli IAI Elta surveillance and communications package based around the AN/M-2202A radar used in Spains P-3C upgrades. These upgrades may even have been installed on at least one aircraft.
P-8A MMA and cutaway
P-8A MMA
(click for labeled cutaway)
DID has covered the Boeing 737-derived P-8A MMA program in-depth, including Indias interest in the P-3 Orions successor. The P-8A is not expected to be available before 2013-2014. Nevertheless, The Times of Indias sources in the Indian Navy believe that the P-8A would match the combined operational profile presently being executed by its existing fleet of Ilyushin Il-38 Mays and TU-142 Bears. Given the limited remaining lifetime of even the refurbished IL-38SDs, a long-term solution is understandably attractive.
As DID has noted before, India also considers its involvement in the Boeing MMA program a test of Washingtons long-term military and strategic commitment to India. Significant distrust remains in the wake of the USAs 1988 embargo of military exports to India and Pakistan following underground nuclear tests an embargo that was only lifted fully in September of 2004. While its timeline may pose problems, just having the P-8A offered and cleared for export has been the one of the biggest benefits India received from this RFP; the Pentagon has also pledged to make additional technical military capabilities available to New Delhi as they enter US service.
In the end, Team Boeing submitted its proposal to develop and deliver 8 P-8I Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft variants, touting its commonality and supportability benefits (q.v. April 13/07 update). The proposal includes the development of a unique Indian navy P-8 configuration, significant participation for Indian industry, test and certification activities, and 8 aircraft delivered over a 4-year period. This appears to be the winning proposal.
Dont count out the old standby P-3C Orion just yet. Lockheeds bid reportedly included a combination offer: 8 upgraded US Navy P-3C aircraft for $550-700 million; and 16 multi-mission MH-60R helicopters from Sikorsky costing $350-400 million.
This platform is in service with 15 nations, and Lockheed-Martin still hopes to reach 16 by adding India. Press Trust of India reports Lockheed VP Richard Kirkland as saying their bid will offer P-3C Orions which have completely been refurbished with new wing-spans and tails to serve almost a life time of 20 years We are offering the Navy the choice of sensors and equipment to be placed onboard and the configuration it wants either for long-range maritime reconnaissance or anti-submarine mode. Lockheed recently opened a plant to manufacture wings for old P-3C aircraft, as a way of keeping P-3C fleets flying in the 15 countries that use the aircraft. The refurbished aircraft with new hydraulic jigs, composite-wing spans and tails are already being delivered to the US Navy and some other international customers, and Kirkland contends that shorter delivery time will be an advantage for Lockheed this time around.
September 2007 reports add that the lead time for a long-range P-8A or Airbus 319 solution have led to a second look at the P-3C option, but that appears to have faded.
EADS maritime patrol offerings include EADS-CASAs CN-235MP Persuader in service with a number of countries, and the twin-turboprop AT3 Atlantique offered as part of the SECBAT consortium (EADS, Dassault Aviation of France, Alenia of Italy, and SABCA-SONACA of Belgium). While these are capable aircraft, their range and payload limitations may make them a dubious contender to replace the TU-142. Further up the range scale, maritime variants of their ATR 42 and ATR 72 short-haul passenger turboprops are produced for some customers, and EADS also refurbishes and maintains Spanish P-3C Orion aircraft.
In the end, however, their primary offering was none of the above. A July 2007 Defense News report suggests that rather than using any of the proven designs above, EADS is leveraging equipment from these efforts to propose a maritime patrol variant of the Airbus A319 passenger jet for this competition. The design is not expected to become operational before 2014, however, which means that EADS shorter-range options may become relevant again if Indias Navy seeks an interim buy as part of a package deal, or wants to complement its forces with medium range aircraft.
Airbus and Boeing have both made substantial investments in India, and both are seriously examining the possibility of partnering with Indian companies to jointly develop communications, data-link and identification friend-or-foe (IFF) equipment as part of their bids.
Russias IL-38 May is about the same vintage as the P-3C Orion. Only 3 aircraft remain in Indian service from the original set of 5, after 2 of the aircraft were lost in an airshow collision. Unlike the TU-142s, however, the status of their upgrades is clear. India Defence reports that the first of 3 improved Il-38SD maritime anti-submarine warfare (ASW) aircraft has been delivered to the Indian Navy following upgrades in Russia, at a cost of about $35 million per plane.
The IL-38 upgrade includes the Leninets Morskoy Zmei (Sea Dragon) digital common patrol suite, which is designed to detect and intercept surface vessels and submarines as well as detect mines and carry out surveillance. Like the Israeli M-2202A, the suite can also detect airborne targets, and it can be linked to the Russian Glonass GPS satellite navigation system. Indias Defence Research and Development Organisation has supplied the new IL-38SDs electronic intelligence system, electronic countermeasures station system, digital firing decoys and radio communication system. India also plans to mount the medium-range PJ-10 BrahMos supersonic cruise missile on this aircraft in the near future.
Another 4 similarly upgraded IL-38SDs were scheduled for delivery to the Indian Navy by early in 2007, bringing the fleet to 7 but the upgrades themselves have had problems due to poor delivery from DRDO, and the age of refurbished airframes has to be a concern for a long-term buy like the LRMR competition. The IL-38SD may become an interim buy option, however, if Indias preferred choice is not immediately available.
There were reports in April 2005 that India might be interested in a modified MPA based on Dassaults high-end Falcon 900 business jet. Though the platform was absent from most subsequent coverage, the reports turned out to be true.
In September 2007, IANS reported that Israel Aerospace Industries and its subsidiary Elta Systems had submitted a proposal based on this jet, leveraging Elta systems extensive experience with naval radars and other surveillance systems, and IAIs experience converting business jets into surveillance platforms. The tri-engine Falcon 900 may be a business jet, but its known as a VIP class offering with a lot of space and a 4,100-4,500 nautical mile (7,600-8,330 km) unrefueled range.
The Falcon 900 is many things, but cheap is not one of them. Bid prices could easily approach those of larger aircraft like the refurbished P-3Cs, which may complicate IAIs odds of being selected as an interim solution. On the other hand, Israel has deep relationships of its own in India, and IAIs Heron and Searcher II UAVs could allow IAI to offer an integrated manned/ unmanned surveillance system that costs far less than higher-end options like the P-8A/BAMS, and offers proven aircraft/UAV integration that can be added to larger aircraft like the A319 or P-8A later on.
Listed, But Not Submitted
Some manufacturers were included in the tender, but did not submit a bid.
BAE Systems modernized Nimrod MRA4 program received consideration from the USA as a replacement option for its P-3C Orions, but pressures for standardization with the global civil air fleet and a desire for a made in America solution pushed them to adopt the 737-based P-8A instead. A British program was begun in 1996 to rebuild their existing Nimrod Mk2 fleet to the MRA4 standard with new wings, engines, internal systems, and mission systems. Unfortunately, that program faced a series of budget cuts, stalls, and conditions before getting a go-ahead for 12 aircraft in July 2006.
At present, the first Nimrod MRA4 isnt expected to enter service until around 2010. Given the cutbacks in the modernization program, however, some older Nimrod Mk2 and MR1 airframes might have become available for sale and refurbishment.
Northrop-Grumman, which has held discussions with India around its E-2D Hawkeye 2000 carrier-capable AWACS aircraft, is also listed as one of the solicited companies by the India Defence report. The only asset they have which would fit the maritime surveillance category, however, is the RQ-4 Global Hawk High-Altitude, Long Endurance (HALE) UAV. As DID has noted, the Global Hawk is slated for a Maritime Surveillance role with the USA and Australia; indeed, a Pacific pool approach similar to the NATO E-3 AWACS model, and involving The USA, Australia, Japan, Singapore, and Thailand, is currently under active consideration.
A recent demonstration flight using a smaller RQ-4A Global Hawk took off from Adelaide, Australia and spent loiter time over Japan and Singapore before returning. While the Global Hawk lacks the payload capacity for sonobuoys, missiles, etc. possessed by all other contenders, the prospect of joining other friendly countries and sharing in the resulting intelligence data from all over the Pacific could be very interesting. It would sharply blunt Indias long-range offensive capabilities once the TU-142s were retired, but if this was seen as a bridge until the P-8As arrival, the intelligence benefits could make the proposal very attractive. Nevertheless, media reports do not list Northrop Grumman among the RFP respondents.
Contracts and Key Events
Dec 5/08: Winner! The Indian government announces that it has signed a $2.1 billion deal with Boeing for 8 maritime patrol aircraft in P-8i configuration. The $2.1 billion figure is the commonly reported total at the moment; DID cautions readers that exact dollar figures for Indian contracts often take some time to clarify. The contract reportedly includes lifetime maintenance support, and an option for another 8 aircraft. Indian Navy spokesman Commander Nirad Sinha:
Though we have signed a deal, final clearance is still required from a U.S. authority . The first plane delivery is four years from the final contract signing, so I think it should come in 2013.
Boeings release commits to delivering the 8th aircraft by 2015. See: Boeing | India Defence | CNN Money.
Dec 29/08: The P-8I deal for India appears to be moving closer. India Defence reports that virtually all the steps required for the contract to be signed, including tabling of it in the Cabinet Committee on Security for approval, are complete. Reports place the deal at Rs 8,500 crore (about $1.7 billion) for 8 jets, with first delivery coming within 4 years and all deliveries by 2015. India currently flies 8 Tu-142s. India Defence | StrategyPage.
Aug 10/08: Sindh Today reports that India s contract negotiating committee has completed its report on price negotiations with Boeing, after the P-8I won the technical bid and the trials of the product. Negotiations were reportedly stuck due to the end-user agreement, under which Boeing can conduct physical inspections of the aircraft as and when it wants to check if the product is being used for the purpose it has been acquired. This is linked to requirements under American ITAR laws, which regulate sales of military equipment whether they are conducted as FMS or direct commercial sales. Indias defence ministry reportedly separated that set of negotiations from the deal itself, knowing that a signed deal will be significantly harder to cancel, on either side.
The contract will reportedly be a direct commercial agreement between the Boeing company and the Indian Navy, rather than an announced Foreign Military Sale. The cost is reportedly around around $2.2 billion, and that deal will now go to the defence acquisition committee (DAC) and then to the cabinet committee on security (CCS) for approval.
Aug 9/08: During a lecture in New Delhi, Indian Naval Chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta reportedly vowed that:
By 2022, we plan to have 160-plus ship navy, including three aircraft carriers, 60 major combatants including submarines and close to 400 aircraft of different types. This will be a formidable three dimensional force with satellite surveillance and networking to provide force multiplication
AP Pakistan | domain-B
April 20/08: Indias NDTV reports that:
India is set to sign a $2.2 billion deal, its biggest with the US, for eight long-range maritime reconnaissance (LRMR) aircraft, even as the Indian Navy chief opposed intrusiveness in the use of military hardware the country purchases.
Negotiations for the purchase of the Boeing-P8I LRMR aircraft are in the final stages and are likely to be wrapped up during Indian Navy chief Admiral Sureesh Mehtas visit to the US that began Sunday [DID: That did not happen]. The agreement for the purchase under the US Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route will be signed between the two governments in New Delhi later this year, official sources said.
AIR A319 Indian Airlines
A319, Indian Air
(click to view full)
Sept 7/07: Indias IANS wire service reports that the Indian Navy has completed evaluations of maritime patrol aircraft (MRA) on schedule, including a 4-member navy team led by a one-star officer who observed MRA derivative trials and simulations in July 2007 for the Airbus A319 in Spain and Boeings P-8A Poseidon MMA in the US. WebIndia story.
They also offer a list of bids submitted: Boeing, EADS Airbus, IAI/Elta, Lockheed Martin, and Rosoboronexport; plus this interesting tidbit:
But official sources said since the navy was more interested in the longer range MRAs still under development, it was seriously considering acquiring two or three of the existing shorter range aircraft as an interim measure to plug a vital operational void in patrolling Indias vast coastline.
July 3/07: Defense News reports that Indian officials will be studying Boeing and Airbus aircraft in France, Germany, Spain and the United States as they prepare for a decision re: their maritime patrol aircraft competition. Defense News report.
Dont get too excited about outcomes, though; Indias procurement system has already solicited bids, and will be sending preliminary evaluations go to the Defence Ministry by September 2007, which will lead to a short list of bidders. A preliminary decision and price negotiations will begin within two years. Past experience has demonstrated that such price negotiations can take years themselves or even sink deals entirely.
May 14/07: Indias Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) warned in a report that the first 2 of 5 upgraded IL-38SDs remain without essential avionics and weapon systems that are seriously limiting their [the Il-38SDs] operational capabilities. The problem? As usual unrealistic assumption about the capability of timely indigenous development of certain avionics systems, and lead-time for import of necessary weapon systems. India Defence | Times of India
April 20/06: Lockheeds deal reportedly includes a combination offer: 8 upgraded US Navy P-3C aircraft for $550-700 million; and 16 multi-mission MH-60R helicopters from Sikorsky costing $350-400 million.
April 13/06: Team Boeing announces its proposal to develop and deliver 8 P-8I Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft variants, touting its commonality and supportability benefits. The Boeing team includes CFM, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and Smiths Aerospace, and their proposal includes the development of a unique Indian navy P-8 configuration, significant participation for Indian industry, test and certification activities, and 8 aircraft delivered over a 4-year period. See release and note that Boeing just pledged to invest $1.5 billion in Indias aerospace industry, as part of a $6 billion deal with Air India.
Ahassan
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2006
- Messages
- 564
- Reaction score
- 0
The simple answer to this bird is Type 052C destroyer
Type 052C destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Type 052C destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
SSGPA1
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2007
- Messages
- 2,632
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Thank God they are buying weapons from the US.
Its now their turn to enjoy the US 'friendship'
ejaz007
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2007
- Messages
- 6,533
- Reaction score
- 1
- Country
- Location
India Balks at C-130, P-8 Restrictions
U.S. Resale and Other Limits Could Snag Future Sales
By ANTONIE BOESSENKOOL and vivek raghuvanshi
Published: 8 February 2009
WASHINGTON and NEW DELHI - Washington's restrictions on resale and other conditions could dampen New Delhi's interest in American defense goods, said officials, excutives, and observers in both countries.
As the world's aerospace industry converges on Bangalore for the biennial Aero India exhibition, Indian officials say they won't accept Washingon's standard conditions for U.S. arms customers, including that customers seek permission before reselling U.S. equipment.
"We're frustrated at both sides that this has been an issue for at least two-and-a-half or three years now and we haven't found a way to come to closure on it," said Jeffrey Kohler, Boeing vice president of international strategy for Integrated Defense Systems Business Development and the former head of the U.S. Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA).
The End Use Monitoring (EUM) provision "has been an issue all along," Kohler said. "We've sort of pushed it down the road while the two governments work on it. But we're reaching a very critical point now. Lockheed is reaching a critical point on the C-130. We [Boeing] now have a major contract that, obviously, we would like to see this issue resolved."
If no agreement is reached this year on EUM language, Kohler said, "There will be a serious blow to the relationship and, obviously, it would make it virtually impossible for U.S. defense companies to work with the Indians."
The annual value of U.S. arms sales to India is set to soar from tens of millions of dollars to billions this year. U.S. defense sales to India totaled $76.4 million in 2007, according to the U.S.-based Aerospace Industries Association. Then came 2008, in which New Delhi agreed to buy six Lockheed Martin C-130Js for $596 million, and last month, when the government agreed to buy eight Boeing P-8I maritime reconnaissance planes for $2.1 billion.
With Boeing and Lockheed competing for India's $10 billion fighter jet contract, and New Delhi's interest in ballistic missile defense systems, such as Patriot Advanced Capability-3 and the Aegis combat system, some believe the United States could be on track to become India's top weapon supplier, displacing Russia, which sold the country arms worth more than $2 billion last year.
But disagreements over post-sale limits could stop that from happening.
'Will Not Comply'?
Several Indian Defence Ministry officials said privately that New Delhi will not comply with EUMs and other export-control limitations that Washington requires of its weapon customers. They said the government has promised on several occasions not to share U.S. weapon technology with other countries. But they said India will not be told how and where to operate the equipment it buys for its own military.
Among the limitations they cited were the EUM, which would allow U.S. officials to block retransfers of the planes; the Communications and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement, which guides the sharing of sensitive information between two nations; and the Logistics Supply Agreement, which regulates things such as logistics support and fuel for fighter jets and naval warships.
Indian Defence Ministry spokes-man Sitanshu Kar said the two countries were discussing these issues, but he declined to elaborate.
Sources in both countries said India wants the United States to alter the EUM provisions.
Rick Kirkland, president for South Asia of Lockheed Martin Global, said the United States and India are discussing how to implement "a number of agreements," including EUMs, for U.S.-India trade in general.
"All of these agreements, of which End Use Monitoring is one of them, are going to need to be put in place and understood and accepted so we can get to the point where we're dealing in the same construct with India that we are with all the other countries that we do defense business with," Kirkland said. "I'm very confident these are all issues that are going to be resolved."
DSCA spokesman Charles Taylor said his agency has no plans to change EUM requirements or exempt any country.
But he said DSCA Director Vice Adm. Jeffrey Wieringa recently met with Indian officials to talk about India's defense acquisition strategies. He declined to say whether new guidelines on EUM provisions resulted.
India has shown in the past they "will sign contracts that have the End Use Monitoring terms and conditions contained," Taylor said.
However, one Indian Defence Ministry official said, U.S. and Indian officials modified the EUM in at least one other deal: the 2005 purchase of three Boeing business jets for the Indian Air Force squadron that ferries top dignitaries. A senior Indian Navy official said the agreement still contains the provision for physical annual verification by U.S. officials, but Washington has said the provision won't be implemented strictly unless concerns arise.
C-130s, P-8I
Sources said India has been reluctant to sign EUM provisions in the C-130J deal.
Sources in India and the United States said New Delhi either did not sign EUM provisions as part of the C-130J deal or agreed to terms that temporarily delay the signing of those conditions.
Lockheed's Kirkland said he doesn't know whether India agreed to the EUM conditions. He said Lockheed is not party to those provisions in the government-to-government deal. But he said New Delhi had signed the letter of offer and acceptance, the government-to-government agreement.
The DSCA's Taylor said that, to his knowledge, India has signed an EUM for the C-130Js as well as for the 2007 sale of the USS Trenton, an amphibious warship now called the INS Jalashwa.
"When they signed the [C-130J] agreement, they signed to accept the terms and conditions of everything contained, and contained in that are the terms for the End Use Monitoring," said Taylor, whose agency handles foreign military sales and notification to Congress of those sales.
Lockheed already has started building the C-130Js for India, with the first plane set for delivery in January 2011.
As for the P-8I deal, India has signed no EUM provisions, one Indian Defence Ministry source said. He said the Boeing aircraft won't arrive before the end of 2013, so the Indian government can buy time until then to sign the EUM provisions for the deal.
Boeing and the Indian government have agreed to the P-8I sale, but the deal is still undergoing the process of notification to Congress, according to Kohler.
Unlike the C-130J purchase, a foreign military sale handled through the DoD, the P-8I deal is a direct commercial sale in which the selling company obtains export licenses for the planes and the agreement between the company and the country contains retransfer or EUM provisions. The U.S. State Department regulates this type of sale but isn't a party to it.
Other Countries
Many European countries don't have end-user conditions as strict as the U.S. ones, but they do evaluate the risk that equipment might be sold to a third party. British officials were displeased in 2006 when India sold two Britten Norman maritime patrol aircraft to Myanmar, which is under a European Union arms embargo.
Britain complained to New Delhi and received a "one-finger salute," according to one defense exports specialist in the United Kingdom. The specialist said India might sell more equipment to Myanmar, perhaps surplus Britten Norman patrol aircraft, and there is little Britain can do about it.
Israel, which sells more arms to India than to any other country, tightened its defense export controls last year to require that the end user be clearly defined on all export licenses and contracts signed by authorized defense goods sellers in Israel. As with the U.S. system, the buyer in the deal must seek Israel's approval for resale of the product.
But there are no procedures to make sure that happens, an Israel Ministry of Defense official said.
"There's no way we conduct an investigation or inspection in customer countries," the official said. He said Israel is counting on the strengthened export procedures to forestall problems with retransferred exports, and there have been no violations so far.
Last year's U.S.-India civilian nuclear cooperation deal may strengthen defense ties, but India's ties with Iran, including security cooperation agreements, may make U.S. and Israeli officials wary.
Nevertheless, observers see U.S. firms and officials continuing their vigorous pursuit of Indian defense business.
"Ultimately, what the U.S. does will depend upon their national interests and international strategic aspirations," said Ravi Vohra, retired Indian Navy Rear Adm. and director of the New Delhi-based National Maritime Foundation. "India has placed several important orders with U.S. companies. Thus the window has opened and I do not think the American companies, having got a foothold in India after several years, would want their government to scuttle future chances."
Andrew Chuter in London and Barbara Opall-Rome in Tel Aviv contributed to this report.
India Balks at C-130, P-8 Restrictions - Defense News
U.S. Resale and Other Limits Could Snag Future Sales
By ANTONIE BOESSENKOOL and vivek raghuvanshi
Published: 8 February 2009
WASHINGTON and NEW DELHI - Washington's restrictions on resale and other conditions could dampen New Delhi's interest in American defense goods, said officials, excutives, and observers in both countries.
As the world's aerospace industry converges on Bangalore for the biennial Aero India exhibition, Indian officials say they won't accept Washingon's standard conditions for U.S. arms customers, including that customers seek permission before reselling U.S. equipment.
"We're frustrated at both sides that this has been an issue for at least two-and-a-half or three years now and we haven't found a way to come to closure on it," said Jeffrey Kohler, Boeing vice president of international strategy for Integrated Defense Systems Business Development and the former head of the U.S. Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA).
The End Use Monitoring (EUM) provision "has been an issue all along," Kohler said. "We've sort of pushed it down the road while the two governments work on it. But we're reaching a very critical point now. Lockheed is reaching a critical point on the C-130. We [Boeing] now have a major contract that, obviously, we would like to see this issue resolved."
If no agreement is reached this year on EUM language, Kohler said, "There will be a serious blow to the relationship and, obviously, it would make it virtually impossible for U.S. defense companies to work with the Indians."
The annual value of U.S. arms sales to India is set to soar from tens of millions of dollars to billions this year. U.S. defense sales to India totaled $76.4 million in 2007, according to the U.S.-based Aerospace Industries Association. Then came 2008, in which New Delhi agreed to buy six Lockheed Martin C-130Js for $596 million, and last month, when the government agreed to buy eight Boeing P-8I maritime reconnaissance planes for $2.1 billion.
With Boeing and Lockheed competing for India's $10 billion fighter jet contract, and New Delhi's interest in ballistic missile defense systems, such as Patriot Advanced Capability-3 and the Aegis combat system, some believe the United States could be on track to become India's top weapon supplier, displacing Russia, which sold the country arms worth more than $2 billion last year.
But disagreements over post-sale limits could stop that from happening.
'Will Not Comply'?
Several Indian Defence Ministry officials said privately that New Delhi will not comply with EUMs and other export-control limitations that Washington requires of its weapon customers. They said the government has promised on several occasions not to share U.S. weapon technology with other countries. But they said India will not be told how and where to operate the equipment it buys for its own military.
Among the limitations they cited were the EUM, which would allow U.S. officials to block retransfers of the planes; the Communications and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement, which guides the sharing of sensitive information between two nations; and the Logistics Supply Agreement, which regulates things such as logistics support and fuel for fighter jets and naval warships.
Indian Defence Ministry spokes-man Sitanshu Kar said the two countries were discussing these issues, but he declined to elaborate.
Sources in both countries said India wants the United States to alter the EUM provisions.
Rick Kirkland, president for South Asia of Lockheed Martin Global, said the United States and India are discussing how to implement "a number of agreements," including EUMs, for U.S.-India trade in general.
"All of these agreements, of which End Use Monitoring is one of them, are going to need to be put in place and understood and accepted so we can get to the point where we're dealing in the same construct with India that we are with all the other countries that we do defense business with," Kirkland said. "I'm very confident these are all issues that are going to be resolved."
DSCA spokesman Charles Taylor said his agency has no plans to change EUM requirements or exempt any country.
But he said DSCA Director Vice Adm. Jeffrey Wieringa recently met with Indian officials to talk about India's defense acquisition strategies. He declined to say whether new guidelines on EUM provisions resulted.
India has shown in the past they "will sign contracts that have the End Use Monitoring terms and conditions contained," Taylor said.
However, one Indian Defence Ministry official said, U.S. and Indian officials modified the EUM in at least one other deal: the 2005 purchase of three Boeing business jets for the Indian Air Force squadron that ferries top dignitaries. A senior Indian Navy official said the agreement still contains the provision for physical annual verification by U.S. officials, but Washington has said the provision won't be implemented strictly unless concerns arise.
C-130s, P-8I
Sources said India has been reluctant to sign EUM provisions in the C-130J deal.
Sources in India and the United States said New Delhi either did not sign EUM provisions as part of the C-130J deal or agreed to terms that temporarily delay the signing of those conditions.
Lockheed's Kirkland said he doesn't know whether India agreed to the EUM conditions. He said Lockheed is not party to those provisions in the government-to-government deal. But he said New Delhi had signed the letter of offer and acceptance, the government-to-government agreement.
The DSCA's Taylor said that, to his knowledge, India has signed an EUM for the C-130Js as well as for the 2007 sale of the USS Trenton, an amphibious warship now called the INS Jalashwa.
"When they signed the [C-130J] agreement, they signed to accept the terms and conditions of everything contained, and contained in that are the terms for the End Use Monitoring," said Taylor, whose agency handles foreign military sales and notification to Congress of those sales.
Lockheed already has started building the C-130Js for India, with the first plane set for delivery in January 2011.
As for the P-8I deal, India has signed no EUM provisions, one Indian Defence Ministry source said. He said the Boeing aircraft won't arrive before the end of 2013, so the Indian government can buy time until then to sign the EUM provisions for the deal.
Boeing and the Indian government have agreed to the P-8I sale, but the deal is still undergoing the process of notification to Congress, according to Kohler.
Unlike the C-130J purchase, a foreign military sale handled through the DoD, the P-8I deal is a direct commercial sale in which the selling company obtains export licenses for the planes and the agreement between the company and the country contains retransfer or EUM provisions. The U.S. State Department regulates this type of sale but isn't a party to it.
Other Countries
Many European countries don't have end-user conditions as strict as the U.S. ones, but they do evaluate the risk that equipment might be sold to a third party. British officials were displeased in 2006 when India sold two Britten Norman maritime patrol aircraft to Myanmar, which is under a European Union arms embargo.
Britain complained to New Delhi and received a "one-finger salute," according to one defense exports specialist in the United Kingdom. The specialist said India might sell more equipment to Myanmar, perhaps surplus Britten Norman patrol aircraft, and there is little Britain can do about it.
Israel, which sells more arms to India than to any other country, tightened its defense export controls last year to require that the end user be clearly defined on all export licenses and contracts signed by authorized defense goods sellers in Israel. As with the U.S. system, the buyer in the deal must seek Israel's approval for resale of the product.
But there are no procedures to make sure that happens, an Israel Ministry of Defense official said.
"There's no way we conduct an investigation or inspection in customer countries," the official said. He said Israel is counting on the strengthened export procedures to forestall problems with retransferred exports, and there have been no violations so far.
Last year's U.S.-India civilian nuclear cooperation deal may strengthen defense ties, but India's ties with Iran, including security cooperation agreements, may make U.S. and Israeli officials wary.
Nevertheless, observers see U.S. firms and officials continuing their vigorous pursuit of Indian defense business.
"Ultimately, what the U.S. does will depend upon their national interests and international strategic aspirations," said Ravi Vohra, retired Indian Navy Rear Adm. and director of the New Delhi-based National Maritime Foundation. "India has placed several important orders with U.S. companies. Thus the window has opened and I do not think the American companies, having got a foothold in India after several years, would want their government to scuttle future chances."
Andrew Chuter in London and Barbara Opall-Rome in Tel Aviv contributed to this report.
India Balks at C-130, P-8 Restrictions - Defense News
* Indian defence minister says heavy imports hurt dream of self-reliance in defence sector
BANGALORE: The Indian defence minister said on Monday he felt guilty over what he described as the countrys unacceptably heavy dependence on foreign military technology.
India imports 70 percent of its defence requirements, a figure that leaves it far, far behind fulfilling the dream of its first prime minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, for self-reliance in the defence sector, AK Antony told a seminar on aerospace technology. I feel sorry and sometimes guilty when we see the growth in self-reliance is very slow, the minister said.
This is not suitable for us. Though I dont visualise a day when we can have zero imports, depending on other countries for 70 percent of our defence needs is not acceptable, he added. While pledging greater government support for research and development, Antony said it was up to defence scientists to speed up the development and manufacture of new military hardware. We are taking too much time. Though your achievements are notable, you must speed up the delivery process to meet the growing needs of our armed forces, he said. India, the biggest weapons buyer among emerging countries, has imported military hardware worth $28 billion since 2000.
It has earmarked another $30 billion to be spent by 2010, which includes $12 billion on 126 fighter jets. Six global aeronautical giants are in the running to win the contract to supply the jets.
ejaz007
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2007
- Messages
- 6,533
- Reaction score
- 1
- Country
- Location
An EUM Bellwether? India/US Arms Deals Facing Crunch Over Conditions
11-Feb-2009 18:16 EST
When countries export weapons, they frequently set associated conditions. Rules against reselling the gear without permission would be a basic condition for obvious reasons, and more advanced restrictions on technology transfer, sharing of details about the weapon with other countries, and related codicils are also common. Some western countries will also place restrictions on what the purchaser can do with the weapons as part of these End Use Monitoring (EUM) agreements. Indonesia turned to Russia as a supplier, for instance, after Britain created problems when the country moved to use its British-made Scorpion light tanks against a separatist insurgency in Aceh. Chad encountered trouble from Switzerland after its Pilatus-7 turboprops were reported to have been armed for use against Sudanese-backed forces. A problem that the opposing Sudanese forces dont have with their new Chinese and Russian jets.
During the Cold War, regimes always had the option of playing Western suppliers off against the Soviet Union. With the USSRs collapse, that option disappeared for a while, but the re-emergence of Russias weapons industry, and the development of competitive arms industries in countries like China, South Korea, Brazil, and India, is changing the global equation again.
EUMs are likely to be affected by this trend, as the leverage to apply them declines. The question is which items are deal-breakers that must be retained by western countries, and which will be allowed to quietly fall by the wayside. That decision will be different in different countries, of course. Meanwhile, the strains created in India by standard American EUMs appear likely to provide an early indicator. India is a leading edge case for a number of reasons
A Trend-Setters Trends
India is a leading edge case for a number of reasons
Western military export sanctions, imposed after India developed nuclear weapons, exacerbated existing thinking within India that aimed at 100% self-sufficiency in weapons projects. While that concept still has strong constituencies within India, it has been a conspicuous failure at fielding capable equipment in a timely fashion, especially when compared to rival Chinese and Pakistani efforts. These failures, and the contrasting success of flagship foreign partnerships like the PJ-10 BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, are driving a shift toward more foreign participation, and more private local industry, in Indias state-controlled arms industries.
Rather than reverting to its previous state of effective dependence on the USSR, however, India is consciously moving to source its military equipment in a multi-polar fashion.
Its growth, and the growth of its security needs and interests, has made it one of the globes largest and most coveted arms export markets; and
The country has historically been seen as a leader within the so-called global non-aligned movement of 3rd and 4th World countries.
France and Israel have both played long-standing roles in India as defense suppliers. The most dramatic sign of Indias multi-polar orientation, however, has been the opening of Indias market to American firms. An early pair of $1+ billion deals for 6-12 new MC-130J Hercules special forces aircraft and 8-16 new P-8i sea/ land surveillance and control aircraft have led that trend.
More may follow. If, and only if, Indias issues with American EUMs can be worked out.
EUM Issues and Options
A Defense News article describes many of the issues, and quotes Jeffrey Kohler, Boeing Integrated Defense Systems vice president of international strategy. Kohler is also a former head of the USAs Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA), which handles American weapons exports and conditions.
The End Use Monitoring (EUM) provision has been an issue all along, Kohler said. Weve sort of pushed it down the road while the two governments work on it. But were reaching a very critical point now. Lockheed is reaching a critical point on the C-130. We [Boeing] now have a major contract that, obviously, we would like to see this issue resolved. If no agreement is reached this year on EUM language, Kohler said, There will be a serious blow to the relationship and, obviously, it would make it virtually impossible for U.S. defense companies to work with the Indians.
Indias non-negotiable items appear to revolve around insistence that India will not be told how and where to operate the equipment it buys for its own military, and that it is not prepared to submit to annual inspections of its military equipment by US officials. The latter was finessed in order to allow Boeing Business Jets to sell India 3 VIP aircraft; the provision remained, on the tacit understanding that the USA would not do so unless security concerns arose. That is very unlikely for this sort of sale. Of course, if relations were to deteriorate to that point, India would always have the option of simply refusing.
Thats exactly what India did when it transferred some of its British-built BN-2 Britten-Norman Islander light surveillance aircraft to the junta in Myanmar, which is on international human right blacklists. Official British objections and warnings were simply brushed aside.
The problem is that American laws and interests are likely to make re-transfer restrictions a non-negotiable item.
Other provisions in standard American EUMs include the USAs Communications and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement that governs how, when, and by whom sensitive information can be shared with and within India; and the Logistics Supply Agreement, which may be an especially sensitive point given Indias past experience with LSA cutoffs.
Conflicting accounts surround the MC-130J sale, with some Indian sources claiming that the signing of EUM provisions has been delayed, and US DSCA spokesman Charles Taylor saying that unspecified EUM provisions were included. Boeings P-8i is being handled as a Direct Commercial Sale instead, which is still regulated by the US State Department. Unlike Foreign Military Sales, however, EUM agreements that comply with American laws arent required until delivery, which is expected to take place in 2013.
Defense News quotes Lockheed Martin Globals South Asian president Rick Kirkland, who believes that an umbrella agreement covering US-India trade in general, and addressing defense industry cooperation in particular, may be the solution. India has already implemented a framework of this type with Russia, via the Indo-Russian Inter-Governmental Commission for Military-Technical Cooperation, and is hammering out a similar approach with France.
Without that kind of approach, or progress on individual EUM negotiations, further defense sales involving top-of-the-line equoipment like E-2D Hawkeye AWACS aircraft, Patriot missiles, or the most advanced F-16 and F/A-18 jets would face extreme obstacles.
Broadly speaking, there are three potential outcomes, and internal politics in both countries will play a role:
(1) India ends up simply refusing to accept EUM provisions required under American law, and those laws are not changed, leading to disqualification or non-selection of American equipment, in favor of comparable alternatives. That decision could have strong impacts on Israels defense relationship with India, as Israel is now subject to a de facto US veto for arms exports. The decision would also have wider global ripples, and would be seen as an example by many governments around the world.
(2) The USA could modify its weapons export laws to accommodate some of Indias objections, and existing global realities. That, too, would be seen as a bellwether by many governments around the world. Its impact would be more limited, because many countries do not have the same level of strategic leverage with American or European governments. The biggest impact would be seen among emerging mid-tier arms exporters with accountable governments, like Brazil and South Korea, who would be likely to water down their own arms export controls.
(3) An umbrella agreement could be worked out that finesses some EUM provisions, while featuring reluctant acceptance of others by India. This would represent a partial climb-down by India, in exchange for a developing strategic relationship with America, a wider set of options for arms supply, and access to some of Americas most sophisticated equipment.
Time will tell.
An EUM Bellwether? India/US Arms Deals Facing Crunch Over Conditions
11-Feb-2009 18:16 EST
When countries export weapons, they frequently set associated conditions. Rules against reselling the gear without permission would be a basic condition for obvious reasons, and more advanced restrictions on technology transfer, sharing of details about the weapon with other countries, and related codicils are also common. Some western countries will also place restrictions on what the purchaser can do with the weapons as part of these End Use Monitoring (EUM) agreements. Indonesia turned to Russia as a supplier, for instance, after Britain created problems when the country moved to use its British-made Scorpion light tanks against a separatist insurgency in Aceh. Chad encountered trouble from Switzerland after its Pilatus-7 turboprops were reported to have been armed for use against Sudanese-backed forces. A problem that the opposing Sudanese forces dont have with their new Chinese and Russian jets.
During the Cold War, regimes always had the option of playing Western suppliers off against the Soviet Union. With the USSRs collapse, that option disappeared for a while, but the re-emergence of Russias weapons industry, and the development of competitive arms industries in countries like China, South Korea, Brazil, and India, is changing the global equation again.
EUMs are likely to be affected by this trend, as the leverage to apply them declines. The question is which items are deal-breakers that must be retained by western countries, and which will be allowed to quietly fall by the wayside. That decision will be different in different countries, of course. Meanwhile, the strains created in India by standard American EUMs appear likely to provide an early indicator. India is a leading edge case for a number of reasons
A Trend-Setters Trends
India is a leading edge case for a number of reasons
Western military export sanctions, imposed after India developed nuclear weapons, exacerbated existing thinking within India that aimed at 100% self-sufficiency in weapons projects. While that concept still has strong constituencies within India, it has been a conspicuous failure at fielding capable equipment in a timely fashion, especially when compared to rival Chinese and Pakistani efforts. These failures, and the contrasting success of flagship foreign partnerships like the PJ-10 BrahMos supersonic cruise missile, are driving a shift toward more foreign participation, and more private local industry, in Indias state-controlled arms industries.
Rather than reverting to its previous state of effective dependence on the USSR, however, India is consciously moving to source its military equipment in a multi-polar fashion.
Its growth, and the growth of its security needs and interests, has made it one of the globes largest and most coveted arms export markets; and
The country has historically been seen as a leader within the so-called global non-aligned movement of 3rd and 4th World countries.
France and Israel have both played long-standing roles in India as defense suppliers. The most dramatic sign of Indias multi-polar orientation, however, has been the opening of Indias market to American firms. An early pair of $1+ billion deals for 6-12 new MC-130J Hercules special forces aircraft and 8-16 new P-8i sea/ land surveillance and control aircraft have led that trend.
More may follow. If, and only if, Indias issues with American EUMs can be worked out.
EUM Issues and Options
A Defense News article describes many of the issues, and quotes Jeffrey Kohler, Boeing Integrated Defense Systems vice president of international strategy. Kohler is also a former head of the USAs Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA), which handles American weapons exports and conditions.
The End Use Monitoring (EUM) provision has been an issue all along, Kohler said. Weve sort of pushed it down the road while the two governments work on it. But were reaching a very critical point now. Lockheed is reaching a critical point on the C-130. We [Boeing] now have a major contract that, obviously, we would like to see this issue resolved. If no agreement is reached this year on EUM language, Kohler said, There will be a serious blow to the relationship and, obviously, it would make it virtually impossible for U.S. defense companies to work with the Indians.
Indias non-negotiable items appear to revolve around insistence that India will not be told how and where to operate the equipment it buys for its own military, and that it is not prepared to submit to annual inspections of its military equipment by US officials. The latter was finessed in order to allow Boeing Business Jets to sell India 3 VIP aircraft; the provision remained, on the tacit understanding that the USA would not do so unless security concerns arose. That is very unlikely for this sort of sale. Of course, if relations were to deteriorate to that point, India would always have the option of simply refusing.
Thats exactly what India did when it transferred some of its British-built BN-2 Britten-Norman Islander light surveillance aircraft to the junta in Myanmar, which is on international human right blacklists. Official British objections and warnings were simply brushed aside.
The problem is that American laws and interests are likely to make re-transfer restrictions a non-negotiable item.
Other provisions in standard American EUMs include the USAs Communications and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement that governs how, when, and by whom sensitive information can be shared with and within India; and the Logistics Supply Agreement, which may be an especially sensitive point given Indias past experience with LSA cutoffs.
Conflicting accounts surround the MC-130J sale, with some Indian sources claiming that the signing of EUM provisions has been delayed, and US DSCA spokesman Charles Taylor saying that unspecified EUM provisions were included. Boeings P-8i is being handled as a Direct Commercial Sale instead, which is still regulated by the US State Department. Unlike Foreign Military Sales, however, EUM agreements that comply with American laws arent required until delivery, which is expected to take place in 2013.
Defense News quotes Lockheed Martin Globals South Asian president Rick Kirkland, who believes that an umbrella agreement covering US-India trade in general, and addressing defense industry cooperation in particular, may be the solution. India has already implemented a framework of this type with Russia, via the Indo-Russian Inter-Governmental Commission for Military-Technical Cooperation, and is hammering out a similar approach with France.
Without that kind of approach, or progress on individual EUM negotiations, further defense sales involving top-of-the-line equoipment like E-2D Hawkeye AWACS aircraft, Patriot missiles, or the most advanced F-16 and F/A-18 jets would face extreme obstacles.
Broadly speaking, there are three potential outcomes, and internal politics in both countries will play a role:
(1) India ends up simply refusing to accept EUM provisions required under American law, and those laws are not changed, leading to disqualification or non-selection of American equipment, in favor of comparable alternatives. That decision could have strong impacts on Israels defense relationship with India, as Israel is now subject to a de facto US veto for arms exports. The decision would also have wider global ripples, and would be seen as an example by many governments around the world.
(2) The USA could modify its weapons export laws to accommodate some of Indias objections, and existing global realities. That, too, would be seen as a bellwether by many governments around the world. Its impact would be more limited, because many countries do not have the same level of strategic leverage with American or European governments. The biggest impact would be seen among emerging mid-tier arms exporters with accountable governments, like Brazil and South Korea, who would be likely to water down their own arms export controls.
(3) An umbrella agreement could be worked out that finesses some EUM provisions, while featuring reluctant acceptance of others by India. This would represent a partial climb-down by India, in exchange for a developing strategic relationship with America, a wider set of options for arms supply, and access to some of Americas most sophisticated equipment.
Time will tell.
An EUM Bellwether? India/US Arms Deals Facing Crunch Over Conditions
Similar threads
