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India should only talk to Pak civilian govt: General Jehangir Karamat

Justin Joseph

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India should only talk to Pak civilian govt: Karamat

ASHIS RAY, TNN, Mar 15, 2010, 03.40am IST

LONDON: General Jehangir Karamat, the once powerful Pakistani chief of army staff, advised India to speak to the civilian government in Pakistan and not anybody else and praised PM Manmohan Singh as being very mature.

Speaking exclusively to TOI, he says that foreign secretary-level talks were a good idea. He added: "I hope this leads to a dialogue." Earlier, in a keynote address to the Royal United Services Institute, Karamat said, "One of the dangers that could destabilize the (South Asian) region is an Indo-Pak conflict triggered by non-state entities." This was an admission of the threat posed by loose cannons like LeT.

Karamat said, "I am against military intervention in government."


In his view the institution of the army has suffered as a result of getting involved in this manner. About civil-military ties, he says: "It's a changing environment in Pakistan where I think we are witnessing a situation where the military has opted out of politics and government; and politicians, too, are of the view that military should stay out."


India should only talk to Pak civilian govt: Karamat - India - The Times of India
 
He stressed on talks mostly if you only keep out the Indian orange media additional text in the news.
 
What is there left to talk about ?

Water , treaty violations against Pakistan
Water, treaty violations against a bangladesh
Agressive behavior vs China
Open decleration of war mindset vs peaceful nations China (read general comments)
Terrorist support from Afghanistan into Pakistani city
Nuclear arms race in world
Nuclear subs race in world
Now - More sophisticated arms race initiated (cold war style)
Also Indian plans of bullying Srilanka are seen now and then

Talking is done with people who want to sit down , and they do not
have global domination intentions, nation which can't hold its peace een with its neighbour nations normally is the one that starts wars -

You don't See US/Canada starting arms race ...

Perhaps we should talk after India gets new arms or weapons or should we talk to the media -

There is time for talks , and there is time for action

We are going beyond time of talks very fast time is running out
 
What is there left to talk about ?

Water , treaty violations against Pakistan
Water, treaty violations against a bangladesh
Agressive behavior vs China
Open decleration of war mindset vs peaceful nations China (read general comments)
Terrorist support from Afghanistan into Pakistani city
Nuclear arms race in world
Nuclear subs race in world
Now - More sophisticated arms race initiated (cold war style)
Also Indian plans of bullying Srilanka are seen now and then

Talking is done with people who want to sit down , and they do not
have global domination intentions, nation which can't hold its peace een with its neighbour nations normally is the one that starts wars -

You don't See US/Canada starting arms race ...

Perhaps we should talk after India gets new arms or weapons or should we talk to the media -

There is time for talks , and there is time for action

We are going beyond time of talks very fast time is running out
your above claims are baseless.What do you want to do now, Ask LET to declare a full fledged war against India?, while we destroy your ISI sponsered LET?...

Chill bro....You are no way better than Mr Karamat, not even a little bit...your ex army chief is talking.
 
your above claims are baseless.What do you want to do now, Ask LET to declare a full fledged war against India?, while we destroy your ISI sponsered LET?...

Chill bro....You are no way better than Mr Karamat, not even a little bit...your ex army chief is talking.

According to General(Retd.) Karamat, water is an issue, so is the fact that India is attempting to start yet another arms race.

So now you'll have to agree with AZADPAKISTAN since General(Retd.) Karamat is better informed.

You should really find a better newspaper. :wave:

Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan's Premier NEWS Agency ) - Early US exit from Afghanistan fraught with danger: Karamat

LONDON, March 12 (APP) - Former Army Chief General (retd) Jehangir Karamat said on Friday a premature US exit from Afghanistan was fraught with danger and could create a serious imbalance that would have an adverse impact on the region.As a keynote speaker at a seminar on Pakistan, its neighbours and regional security held at a leading British defence think tank *Royal United Services Institute (RUSI) he said the important factor for the region is US policy for South Asia that is on separate and distinct tracks for India, Pakistan and Afghanistan.

“Much will depend on the balance that this policy can strike in the context of India and Pakistan and how understanding it is of regional concerns especially those facing internal and external threat situations,” he said.
He said US strategic success in Afghanistan is important and the new push to secure people and consider reintegration and reconciliation is good for the region, adding that integration and a balanced ethnic structure will be an important consideration.
He spoke of the dangers that could destabilise the region listing these as India-Pakistan failure to move to an institutionalised dialogue process for resolution of issues, an Indo-Pakistan conflict triggered by non-state entities that gain their adversarial relationship, failure in Afghanistan in terms of securing the people and achieving ethnic balance, military action against Iran and indifference to Pakistan’s security concerns.
“A stressed regional environment could also emerge from a failure to address water, energy and social sector issues in the region. Failure to move towards economic and trade integration by not addressing the issues that hamper progress in these areas could also be disastrous.”Mr.Karamat noted that military power remains a dominant feature of the regional environment and underscored bilateral crises control measures.
He said terror is being used to further agendas that have nothing to do with religion and Pakistan as the median in the region is in the eye of this storm. He pointed out that terrorism casts a long shadow over Indo-Pak relations and the legacy of the past still lingers in terms of exploiting vulnerabilities to gain an advantage creating the perceptions that drive policies.
“Issues still remain unresolved and this influences threat perceptions. The uncertainty in Afghanistan and the trends there are fuelling new confrontations and aggressive policies.”
The former Army Chief also mentioned the failure of SAARC and said it has failed to take off when compared with other regional alliances. He said SAARC has the potential but the region is far from economic integration. “Intra regional trade remains at a low level while a difficult visa and travel regime also remains in place.”
He said Pakistan considers the US-India civilian nuclear technology agreement a hugely destabilising matter and views Indian plans of enhancing conventional military capabilities with concern.
Nevertheless, he observed despite these concerns, Pakistan is following a threat reduction strategy that pushes for dialogue with India to resolve issues, stability in Afghanistan, co-operation in the war against terror and extremism and move towards confidence and trust building measures through bilateral talks.Major-General Jonathan Shaw, Chief of Defence Staff, International Security Policy, in his speech said the UK is determined to stand by Pakistan and spoke of the 665 million pounds aid by the British Government to alleviate poverty in the South Asian country.
He said Prime Minister Gordon Brown has acknowledged Pakistan’s important role in the war against terror and praised the sacrifices rendered by Pakistan military forces in this regard.
Shaw said the international community understand that Pakistan has a key role to play in the region whose future lay in peace, stability and concord. He said the international community cannot stay for ever in Afghanistan where it is investing huge financial sums to secure its future and stability.
Major-General Athar Abbas, Director-General, Inter Services Public Relations, spoke on the lessons identified from the Swat and Waziristan operations and how these have helped the military prepare itself for the future.
Other speakers included Deputy High Commissioner Asif Durrani, Dr.Jonathan Eyal, Director of International Security Studies, RUSI, Prof. Richard Bonney, Major-General (retd) Salimullah, visiting faculty at National Defence University, Prof.Antol Lieven of King’s College, London, Alexaner Neill, Head of Asia Security Programme,
RUSI and Nigel Inkster of the International Institute of Strategic Studies (IISS).
 
What is there left to talk about ?

Water , treaty violations against Pakistan
Water, treaty violations against a bangladesh
Agressive behavior vs China
Open decleration of war mindset vs peaceful nations China (read general comments)
Terrorist support from Afghanistan into Pakistani city
Nuclear arms race in world
Nuclear subs race in world
Now - More sophisticated arms race initiated (cold war style)
Also Indian plans of bullying Srilanka are seen now and then

Talking is done with people who want to sit down , and they do not
have global domination intentions, nation which can't hold its peace een with its neighbour nations normally is the one that starts wars -

You don't See US/Canada starting arms race ...

Perhaps we should talk after India gets new arms or weapons or should we talk to the media -

There is time for talks , and there is time for action

We are going beyond time of talks very fast time is running out

Oh! yeah and all its neighbor can'nt do a thing to India... what a pity???
If i read clearly of General's statement then it must be talk of India and Pakistan only ,not any other country!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Oh! yeah and all its neighbor can'nt do a thing to India... what a pity???

Don't worry about your neighbour. We're capable of doing plenty. Since you can't influence Indian foreign policy, the least you can do is stop trolling.
 
According to General(Retd.) Karamat, water is an issue, so is the fact that India is attempting to start yet another arms race.

So now you'll have to agree with AZADPAKISTAN since General(Retd.) Karamat is better informed.

You should really find a better newspaper.

I agree. However the way it was replyed by AZADPAKISTAN, was not appropriate. You dont go in flame once something is written. Post what you want to discuss and people will listen carefully...
You flame and you flame others...

Any way, now let me be honest with you, You have been waging a proxy war against us for last 4 decades.
Every time India wants to talk to you, your own supported terror outfits will kill innocents to stop the dialogue process.

Our one prime minister started a bus service to lahore as a start to peace measures, You gave us Kargil...

Its either you or your non state actors, it doesnt matter..It was always a Proxy war coz you lost all the real wars with us...

Now face the proxy war from us...

Stop supporting the cowards, start being friendly and you will get to see an improvement. Until you stop behaving like people with no brains, You will not be trated fairly as you have never treated Us fairly...

Its time to think, and I will say we are a soverign country, we can do whatever we wabnt to serve our interests.

Its just your Hostile behaviour that allows us to take hostile decisions for you..

Nothing personal.
 
Forget talks we are not moving anywhere from where we are for the past sixty plus years.
If trade can be encouraged (which i highly doubt) good enough, if not i am sure no one will loose sleep over it.
Kashmir isnt coming not without war, what remains to be seen.....are we willing and do we have the resolve to take it no matter what the cost? The answer to that question will change the face of not just South Asia but i would say the whole world.
 
Looking forward for your's capable.........:lazy:

I would respond to what you just said, but the fact is I don't understand a word.

What does "Looking forward for your's capable........." mean?
 
I agree. However the way it was replyed by AZADPAKISTAN, was not appropriate. You dont go in flame once something is written. Post what you want to discuss and people will listen carefully...
You flame and you flame others...

Any way, now let me be honest with you, You have been waging a proxy war against us for last 4 decades.
Every time India wants to talk to you, your own supported terror outfits will kill innocents to stop the dialogue process.

Our one prime minister started a bus service to lahore as a start to peace measures, You gave us Kargil...

Its either you or your non state actors, it doesnt matter..It was always a Proxy war coz you lost all the real wars with us...

Now face the proxy war from us...

Stop supporting the cowards, start being friendly and you will get to see an improvement. Until you stop behaving like people with no brains, You will not be trated fairly as you have never treated Us fairly...

Its time to think, and I will say we are a soverign country, we can do whatever we wabnt to serve our interests.

Its just your Hostile behaviour that allows us to take hostile decisions for you..

Nothing personal.

hmmm Just like your Proxy wars with China because you also lost all the real war/s with China :hang2:
 
I agree. However the way it was replyed by AZADPAKISTAN, was not appropriate. You dont go in flame once something is written. Post what you want to discuss and people will listen carefully...
You flame and you flame others...

Any way, now let me be honest with you, You have been waging a proxy war against us for last 4 decades.
Every time India wants to talk to you, your own supported terror outfits will kill innocents to stop the dialogue process.

Our one prime minister started a bus service to lahore as a start to peace measures, You gave us Kargil...

Its either you or your non state actors, it doesnt matter..It was always a Proxy war coz you lost all the real wars with us...

Now face the proxy war from us...

Stop supporting the cowards, start being friendly and you will get to see an improvement. Until you stop behaving like people with no brains, You will not be trated fairly as you have never treated Us fairly...

Its time to think, and I will say we are a soverign country, we can do whatever we wabnt to serve our interests.

Its just your Hostile behaviour that allows us to take hostile decisions for you..

Nothing personal.

Well, as long as we're being honest with each other. Pakistan feels exactly the same way about India. In fact, we were not the ones who wanted India to be divided in two when the British left. Jinnah tried his best to convice Gandhi to see the British plot to divide India for what it was, but Gandhi was very much a part of it.

I don't think Pakistan 'lost' any war with India. After partition, the plan, atleast as far as the British and Indians were concerned, was that Pakistan would last less than a year. That never happened, and I don't see it happening.

India has been a sponsoring terrorism not only in Pakistan, but in Sri Lanka as well. It's a well known fact that cannot be refuted.

As far as talks go, Pakistan has taken the initiative countless times and we've been snubbed. After the Samjhauta Express attacks in 2007, this is how Pakistan responded:

The government of Pakistan reacted in the same vein, through its Foreign Minister Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri, proclaiming that this was an act of terrorism that should be investigated by Indian authorities. Kasuri said that the terrorist attack would not halt his trip to India, as he "will be leaving tomorrow for Delhi to further the peace process." He went on to say that "we should hasten the peace process." In response to the terrorist attack, President Pervez Musharraf stated "such wanton acts of terrorism will only serve to further strengthen our resolve to attain the mutually desired objective of sustainable peace between the two countries."

On the other hand, we all know what happened after the Mumbai attacks. Even before a full investigation had been carried out, the Indian government was abusing, blaming, threatening Pakistan.

Get some perspective my friend. We have no wish to fight a war with you. However, we are fully capable of doing so.
 
Look what has happened to this thread. Karamat talked sense and made some good statements, and everybody here is fighting bickering again over points that have been made millions of times on this forum already.

Can't we just say, "Yeah, his suggestions are good. Peace in South Asia".
 
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