India should accept defeat before Kashmiris’ struggle, says Nawaz

[DesiGuy1403]

You took away their homes and the native Kashmiris are terrorists?

Now we go in circles.
The terrorists took away Hindu pandits EVERYTHING.

BUT

You are ok with that so I am ok with what we are doing now to the Kashmiri terrorists. Isn't that fair?

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

LOL.

The facts are there for all to see. I am happy to let readers judge, and to let them see the spins that you have been putting on, one after another, in a vain attempt to regain lost ground. A for effort, F for result.

I wish i there was a feature on the forum boards here.. where i could put a Pakistani flag on the thread title showing its been conquered.

You failed to produce any UN document that states your point of view (stating Pakistan Army withdrawal)

 

[DesiGuy1403]

You failed to produce any UN document that states your point of view (stating Pakistan Army withdrawal)

You mean post hard copies to your home address?
Or do you accept the links which contains the point by point by plan suggested by UN?

there is no point anyway. You will pretend it does not exist and we will go around in circles a few times. This will continue in next thread and another thread after...
In mean while we will have killed the next batch terrorist Hizbul Pigs in Kashmir and you will be busy preparing the next batch of pigs..

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

You mean post hard copies to your home address?
Or do you accept the links which contains the point by point by plan suggested by UN?

there is no point anyway. You will pretend it does not exist and we will go around in circles a few times. This will continue in next thread and another thread after...
In mean while we will have killed the next batch terrorist Hizbul Pigs in Kashmir and you will be busy preparing the next batch of pigs..

You are late, the show is already over. i asked for the relevant quote and the url to that particular UN document. He first said he will bring it and get me humiliated, and that i wont have a place to hide and bla bla...Then he said its a Pakistani document..now he just wants to walk away thinks im a spin doctor and closed the conversation.

 

[DesiGuy1403]

You are late, the show is already over. i asked for the relevant quote and the url to that particular UN document. He first said he will bring it and get me humiliated, and that i wont have a place to hide and bla bla...Then he said its a Pakistani document..now he just wants to walk away thinks im a spin doctor and closed the conversation.

Cool..

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/kashun47.htm
Check the first step specified by UN.

Let me know your thoughts.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Cool..

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/kashun47.htm
Check the first step specified by UN.

Let me know your thoughts.

Thats why you should read the whole conversation since page 11??.I was the one who posted this docuement intially. The argument (from Indian end) was that Pakistan Forces need to withdraw from Kashmir. i said It doesnt state anywhere in the document you posted so we dont need to withdraw any forces.plain and simple..Pakistan does need to assure no freedom fighters go from Pakistan end into J&K.

 

[DesiGuy1403]

Thats why you should read the whole conversation since page 11??.I was the one who posted this docuement intially. The argument (from Indian end) was that Pakistan Forces need to withdraw from Kashmir. i said It doesnt state anywhere in the document you posted so we dont need to withdraw any forces.plain and simple..Pakistan does need to assure no freedom fighters go from Pakistan end into J&K.

1. The Government of Pakistan should undertake to use its best endeavours:

(a) To secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and
Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purposes
of fighting, and to prevent any intrusion into the State of such elements and any furnishing of
material aid to those fighting in the State;

What do you think it means?

Like I said, now you will twist it and give some crappy explanation and we will round and round and round until one of us is tired or real life demands our attention somewhere else.

Anyway, bring on the crap..

 

[Sam.]

1. The Government of Pakistan should undertake to use its best endeavours:

(a) To secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and
Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purposes
of fighting, and to prevent any intrusion into the State of such elements and any furnishing of
material aid to those fighting in the State;

What do you think it means?

Like I said, now you will twist it and give some crappy explanation and we will round and round and round until one of us is tired or real life demands our attention somewhere else.

Anyway, bring on the crap..

It means Kushti what did you think?

 

[footmarks]

Talk to my hand, Nawaz. Talk to my hand. And once you are done with it, here's our reply:

"I'm sorry, say again?"

And you keep on repeating. You are doing a great (lip) service.

 

[Dash]

Oi, I resent that. What do you mean a perfect Indian? The one who parrots non-sense like which we accuse our neighbours of? Then, yeah, am not perfect..... but for me J&K's solution lies in between Article 1.1 of Indian Constitution and Article 370. Maybe I will stand for elections someday and then ask your vote and then will give you the political solution!!!

But have laid out the bitter facts. Read Chinese Campaign - Dalvi and Palit, you will call them traitors for what they write!!!!! One commanded the ill fated brigade and the other was in Military Operations.

Why is that it is so hard for both Pakistanis and Indians to accept the historical facts and make sensible decisions based on them??

On a side note: The Naga mess was much greater than Kashmir. In Kashmir we have an Instrument of Accession. But in Naga, they declared independence. To add insult to their injury, Nehru in his finite wisdom and infinite stupidity, gave the traditional grazing land of Nagas till Chindwin to Burma as a boundary settlement. That set off the most potent Insurgencies that India had ever known. We got two accords and the present Indian dispensation did exactly what we have been saying and our fellow nationals baying for our bloods over it - reach an accord granting autonomy to Nagas without change in boundaries. Things have settled. Modi signed it quietly on 03 August (I think)

When you can do that for Nagaland, why not for a state where you promised it? Anyways, that is moot point as already the state has that autonomy and it is only the Kashmiris themselves who run and manage the state government who are messing up by rampant corruption and poor administration.

I feel like I am in a round room which has no doors and looking for an exit



When you half read and follow it up with absence of comprehension skills, we get retard post like this.

Counter-Narrative for your above point ..

1. Where does it say that India has to hold a plebiscite as a binding resolution?

2. Where is the date given for a plebiscite?

3. Who gave the criteria of plebiscite as mandatory for acceptance of Instrument of Accession signed by Maharaja of J&K?

4. If indeed plebiscite was the criteria, when was plebiscite held when you accepted the accession of Gilgit? It was not, merely the Gilgit Scouts mutinied and asked for accession .... at the point of a gun. Where was the plebiscite held when you signed the Sino-Pakistan Boundary Pact and ceded territories of Hunza State in Shasgam?

Another Professor of History, telling his-version of story!!!



Another dimwit. Unfortunately we have a few on our sides too. I enjoyed it till about 02 days back. And now @Dash et al have decided am not 'perfect' indian ... lol what is that?

Trust me every sane Indian who has no vested interest in Kashmir will always agree with your proposed solution. In fact that was it until our beloved neighbor vowed to bleed a thousand cut after failed attempt of military takeover.

Atalji tried that way, but failed. Somewhat righteously Musharaf tried with MMS but he couldn't hold his ground.

You see as long as Pakistan fiddles with Kashmir, India will have no option but to keep boots on the ground for the very reason that if not kept the enemy will give you bloody nose. And we become valunarable.

I have read Dalvi read it long back. And I quote him here, he says Indian peasantry has always faught with bravery and it's the peasant who is still fighting and dying in Kashmir to save a nation.

If Kashmir (read people) tries to be a liability then it will be dealt so. And it's right when you have the hurriyat sitting with the murderer of 26/11.

If we want peace then we need to have a reason. Tell what is the reason for those people to get a better treatment?

 

[Politico]

Simple how???????

We in Pakistan didn't want to live with hindus so we separated and got Pakistan, the Kashmiris wanted the same but rather than allow this which eventually would of meant that the wounds of Partition could have healed and Pakistan and india moved on.

India chose to occupy a muslim majority state which shares the faith, culture and language of Northern Pakistan and create ongoing emnity and hatred and war


Kashmir is unfinished business of Partition,
Azaad Kashmir is part and parcel if Pakistan ruled by their own

Indian occupied kashmir is in turmoil, the indians cant attempt to bribe the kashmiris forever rhe hate they have for your occupation is apparent and obvious

So rather than give them a democratic choice indians are forcing themselves onto kashmiris like a rapist
With indians regularly calling for kashmirs culture and people to be violated to subdue them


India is a joke democracy
Give them a choice a peaceful way out

from ur flags..u dont live in pakistan so i dont know how u claim 2 speak 4 pakistanis. ur racist rants against hindus is simply stupid. kashmir is a political issue regarding the rights of people who want liberation. it is stupid people like u who make it out 2 be terrorist muslims wanting 2 convert or kill kuffars since they are not muslim.

 

[Hellfire]

If we want peace then we need to have a reason. Tell what is the reason for those people to get a better treatment?

To be what we are - Indians.

We have protested the formation of Pakistan and rejected the idea of two nations - the so called two nation theory; declaring ourselves a secular nation howsoever imperfect, we have worked to deny them a raison d'etre to exist for almost seven decades now.

They still look to justify their existence, we don't need to justify why we, inspite of all our diversities and differences, exist as a nation. We forged a democracy, howsoever faulty it maybe, made a constitution which is the most exhaustive in the world and have given rights to the citizen and imposed duties of them. Our locus standii ramins democracy and the constitution.

That is the most basic and important of the reason.

Rest all is hogwash. Both @Joe Shearer and I have said that the political settlement is must, the problem of J&K is uniquely a political one as it is being festered by the politicians. We don't need CAPFs acting like an elite commando force in J&K to deal with stone pelters, we need a force which can take care of a law and order problem with the means sufficient to deal with a law and order problem.

Article 1.1 is non-negotiable. Pakistan has no locus standii in Kashmir. If it challenges the Accession of the state, then its own locus standii as a nation should be questioned and steps be taken by India to ensure that all territories that make Pakistan are freed, as Pakistan derives legitimacy through the same instrument it questions in Kashmir.

But Article 370 is there too - which makes it incumbent upon the State government to work .. absolving GoI of all local level responsibilities. What is infuriating - the ignorance of people of India here, when they scream for abolition of Article 370 citing right to reside (it does not stop me from residing in J&K) when it only stops one from buying land in the state as is existent in Uttarakhand, Sikkim, North-East, Himachal Pradesh.

Yes it allows them a constitution, that is where the GoI is, at times, wrong, it could have prevented some legislations like the law passed by State that bars a Kashmiri woman from marrying outside the state and in the event of which, she loosed her right of being a resident of Kashmir.

This law itself is against the tenets of Indian Constitution of Right to Life, who stops GoI from acting on these stupidities?

 

[Dash]

To be what we are - Indians.

We have protested the formation of Pakistan and rejected the idea of two nations - the so called two nation theory; declaring ourselves a secular nation howsoever imperfect, we have worked to deny them a raison d'etre to exist for almost seven decades now.

They still look to justify their existence, we don't need to justify why we, inspite of all our diversities and differences, exist as a nation. We forged a democracy, howsoever faulty it maybe, made a constitution which is the most exhaustive in the world and have given rights to the citizen and imposed duties of them. Our locus standii ramins democracy and the constitution.

That is the most basic and important of the reason.

Rest all is hogwash. Both @Joe Shearer and I have said that the political settlement is must, the problem of J&K is uniquely a political one as it is being festered by the politicians. We don't need CAPFs acting like an elite commando force in J&K to deal with stone pelters, we need a force which can take care of a law and order problem with the means sufficient to deal with a law and order problem.

Article 1.1 is non-negotiable. Pakistan has no locus standii in Kashmir. If it challenges the Accession of the state, then its own locus standii as a nation should be questioned and steps be taken by India to ensure that all territories that make Pakistan are freed, as Pakistan derives legitimacy through the same instrument it questions in Kashmir.

But Article 370 is there too - which makes it incumbent upon the State government to work .. absolving GoI of all local level responsibilities. What is infuriating - the ignorance of people of India here, when they scream for abolition of Article 370 citing right to reside (it does not stop me from residing in J&K) when it only stops one from buying land in the state as is existent in Uttarakhand, Sikkim, North-East, Himachal Pradesh.

Yes it allows them a constitution, that is where the GoI is, at times, wrong, it could have prevented some legislations like the law passed by State that bars a Kashmiri woman from marrying outside the state and in the event of which, she loosed her right of being a resident of Kashmir.

This law itself is against the tenets of Indian Constitution of Right to Life, who stops GoI from acting on these stupidities?

First of all they need to accept that they are Indians, but they don't. And that's where problem starts.

Second is Pakistan will never fall back from creating anti Indian sentiment, and to be honest it looks like they are enjoying and comfortable now.
And that's has security implications.

It's a triangular hate story between a state, it's people and another third party.

All other that you are saying is doable. But can they accept that they are Indians first.?
Can Pakistan stop using its proxies?

And if we start talking whose interests to be compromised and whose to be paraded?

We need answer that first and these are pretty much the issues

 

[hassamun]

Sorry to interrupt this debate but please for a few seconds view the image below, think for a while and then continue...

This is Insha Malik a 14 year old girl who belongs to Srinagar and was part of the Protest...If this was your daughter or sister what would you do?

http://www.dawn.com/news/1272683/di...ur-eyes-are-crucial-to-envisioning-our-future

 

[Dash]

Sorry to interrupt this debate but please for a few seconds view the image below, think for a while and then continue...

This is Insha Malik a 14 year old girl who belongs to Srinagar and was part of the Protest...If this was your daughter or sister what would you do?

http://www.dawn.com/news/1272683/di...ur-eyes-are-crucial-to-envisioning-our-future

I saw, what's next you want me to cry?