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Yup, and you sure did show a lot of balls ceding almost 5500 sq km to China without a fight. It's not like you are a big country like Russia anyway, that you have tons of land to give away, so even ceding 500 odd km would have been pretty lame. But to cede a whopping 5500 sq km to avoid Chinese wrath was a new low, even a small country like Vietnam didn't do it and put up a real fight.
Baba why this off topic... Here the topic is "balls"... So discuss balls... How Pak has big big and numerous balls and how India lack balls etc.,

There is a good reason why Pakistani army has stopped crossing LOC since Kargil.
Because Pak is after balls and India have none... Why do make things complicated... Keep it stupid simple(kiss) balls.
 
It's the Chinese that went home.not.india taking their 40 plus dead soldiers with them and then too ashamed to even name and honour them. coward govt no respect for its soldiers
 
you know too well that Kashmir was within your grasp. Reality, however, is very different!
Kashmir is a very volatile issue. If you think it was the end of Chinese then bro you are in for the ride. Indian occupation of Kashmir won't last forever. Its just a matter of time. Indian sources are diverted that all we need. It was Indian media who always stated 2 front war but the way Indians are moving forward it could become reality.
 
Yup, and you sure did show a lot of balls ceding almost 5500 sq km to China without a fight. It's not like you are a big country like Russia anyway, that you have tons of land to give away, so even ceding 500 odd km would have been pretty lame. But to cede a whopping 5500 sq km to avoid Chinese wrath was a new low, even a small country like Vietnam didn't do it and put up a real fight.


:lol::lol::lol:

You seem upset


We only hate hindus:lol:


We did a very beneficial territory swap with China, look into it:tup:
 
:lol::lol::lol:

You seem upset


We only hate hindus:lol:


We did a very beneficial territory swap with China, look into it:tup:

:rofl::rofl::rofl:. Dig out a Chinese map from before 1963 and show me which part of China was "swapped" for Shaksgam valley. This should be something that is black or white without requiring endless pages of proof or wasteful discussion. It should take you a minute, simply circle the region that belonged to China in 1963 and was given to Pakistan. Actually don't even bother with the old map, just go to google maps, take a screenshot, circle the region in red that was given away by China and post it. But i think you know very well there was no land swap. Upset? Not even close. It actually gives us a perpetual thing to laugh about, that our enemy is so low and pussy it actually gifted land to avoid conflict, i doubt any other country in the world has done this. Vietnam put up quite a fight despite having a third of Pakistan's population or military budget. Now that being said, I would actually rather see Kashmir with China rather than Pakistan. I have read a lot about their "Xinjiang Model", look into it :lol:
 
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:rofl::rofl::rofl:. Dig out a Chinese map from before 1963 and show me which part of China was "swapped" for Shaksgam valley. This should be something that is black or white without requiring endless pages of proof or wasteful discussion. It should take you a minute, simply circle the region that belonged to China in 1963 and was given to Pakistan. Actually don't even bother with the old map, just go to google maps, take a screenshot, circle the region in red that was given away by China and post it. But i think you know very well there was no land swap. Upset? Not even close. It actually gives us a perpetual thing to laugh about, that our enemy is so low and pussy it actually gifted land to avoid conflict, i doubt any other country in the world has done this. Vietnam put up quite a fight despite having a third of Pakistan's population or military budget. Now that being said, I would actually rather see Kashmir with China rather than Pakistan. I have read a lot about their "Xinjiang Model", look into it :lol:

It seems that you intend to stay on PDF only briefly. So logical and blunt observations cannot be digested by your enemy.:lol:
 
:rofl::rofl::rofl:. Dig out a Chinese map from before 1963 and show me which part of China was "swapped" for Shaksgam valley. This should be something that is black or white without requiring endless pages of proof or wasteful discussion. It should take you a minute, simply circle the region that belonged to China in 1963 and was given to Pakistan. Actually don't even bother with the old map, just go to google maps, take a screenshot, circle the region in red that was given away by China and post it. But i think you know very well there was no land swap. Upset? Not even close. It actually gives us a perpetual thing to laugh about, that our enemy is so low and pussy it actually gifted land to avoid conflict, i doubt any other country in the world has done this. Vietnam put up quite a fight despite having a third of Pakistan's population or military budget. Now that being said, I would actually rather see Kashmir with China rather than Pakistan. I have read a lot about their "Xinjiang Model", look into it :lol:

Here you go princess, remember we only hate Hindu India we are quite happy with alliance with our allies

Dispelling myths: Did Pakistan cede Kashmiri territory of Shaksgam valley to China? No.
Historical
https://www.reddit.com/r/pakistan/comments/gevp8n/dispelling_myths_did_pakistan_cede_kashmiri/
Since this is yet another point often raised by Indians in order to delegitimise Pakistan's role in the Kashmir conflict, both on state and individual level, Perhaps it is important to debunk this myth once and for all.

Myth
Pakistan ceded Trans-Karakoram tract or Shaksgam valley to China in Trans-Karakoram pact thus showing utter disregard for Kashmiri sovereignty or its own sovereignty.

Fact
Pakistan did not ‘gift’ any Kashmiri land to China. In fact, it gained 1942 sq kms (750 miles) from the Chinese, in the 1963 Sino-Pakistan boundary agreement. In fact, the Trans-Karakoram Tract, that Delhi claims- has been ‘gifted’ by Islamabad to Beijing, was not under Pakistani control that they could have vacated it and given it to China. The Treaty is public, so are the maps as a result of it which show Pakistan gaining the aforementioned amount of area and adding it to Gilgit-Baltistan rather than the other way around.

Background
Let's get to the root of the issue and how it all started.

The original territory demarcation issue was between China and British India, which arose as a result of 1846 Amritsar treaty in which the border with China was left unmarked. British authorities assigned W.H. Johnson, a survey officer to propose a line which was to be sent to Chinese government for negotiations. Authors Christopher Snedden and Alastair Lamb say that Mr. Johnson was unhappy with working conditions under East India Company and sought to join the court of Maharaja of Kashmir instead. To impress the Maharaja, he increased the size of the state in his created map by including Aksai Chin and Shaksgam Valley in Kashmir, both of which were in Chinese control. British authorities in Calcutta were annoyed and Johnson was disciplined by his superiors and his map was rejected. Maharaja however thought that Johnson had magically increased his territory by drawing few lines on the map and thus he was offered a job by Maharaja and appointed Wazir or Governor of Ladakh in 1872 as a reward. The line he created is called Johnson Line, which was rejected by British India, forget about China.

EIC however appointed Sir Claude MacDonald to create the new official British line which he did. It did not include the Chinese areas. British sent it to Chinese on 14th March 1899 with the proposal:

  1. China will withdraw all claims to Hunza valley
  2. British India will withdraw all claims to Shaksgam/Raskam and Taghdumbash
This is the McDonald Line.

Chinese did not respond, prompting British to inform them that their silence was taken as assent and Britain will act accordingly. Which Britain did.

Partition, Johnson Line, MacDonald Line
Fast forward, Partition happens, Pakistan and India become free, fight a war and divide Kashmir. But this is where the problem starts. Instead of taking up the McDonald line, Indian government officially adopted the Johnson line because the increased land (Or rather lines on a paper) impressed Nehru as much as it had impressed Maharaja. India made it official in 1954 in their published map.

Pakistan obviously did not have to tow Mr. Nehru's ridiculous line. Pakistan recognised McDonald Line......And that's all. And that's not all, When Pakistani cited historical evidence and connection of Gilgit-Baltistan to regions in Hunza, Karakoram watershed, K-2, Shimshal Pass etc, Zhou En Lai acknowledged them and Pakistan got 750 sqm from China which was added to Gilgit-Baltistan. Pakistan further asserted that traditional grazing grounds of the Hunza people be given to Pakistan because otherwise it would cause them huge distress, Chinese Premier said he'd confirm after checking Xinjiang province and after getting assent of the Uyghur, Chinese ceded it as well.

Protection of Kashmiri Sovereignty in case they choose Independence instead of Pakistan
And that's not all, Pakistan also took care to add the provision to secure Kashmiri sovereignty in future, pending the resolution of the dispute, in Article 6 of the treaty.

”The two parties have agreed that after the settlement of the Kashmir dispute between Pakistan and India, the sovereign authority concerned will reopen negotiations with the Government of the People’s Republic of China on the boundary as described in Article. Two of the present agreement, so as to sign a formal boundary treaty to replace the present agreement, provided that in the event of the sovereign authority being Pakistan, the provisions of the present agreement and of the aforesaid protocol shall be maintained in the formal boundary treaty to be signed between the People’s Republic of China and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan"

If you still don't understand how groundbreaking this deal was, imagine this. China went to all out war against India for this line which they absolutely refused to change. Whereas for Pakistan and Kashmir, China ceded 750 sqm and also recognized that a future sovereign Kashmiri government may renegotiate this border when they are free.

Supporting Quotes
Noted Indian Author on Kashmir, AG Noorani also Confirms this:

There is one statement, however, which is untrue. It concerns the Shaksgam Valley and asserts: Area ceded by Pakistan to China. Pakistan ceded no territory to China under their agreement of March 2, 1963. On the contrary, it received from China 750 square miles of administered territory beyond the watershed, the traditional grazing ground for people in Hunza. The added assertion claimed by India is factually correct. Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru did contest the validity of the agreement no sooner than it was published.

Anwar H. Syed in China and Pakistan: Diplomacy of an Entente Cordiale wrote:

“China ceded to Pakistan 750 square miles of territory beyond the main watershed of the Karakoram Range, compromising the Oprang Vally and the Darband-Darwaza pocket including its salt mines, Pakistan surrendered no part of the territory under her control”.

George L. Singleton reconfirmed Pakistan’s claim as under:

“According to this treaty [China-Pakistan Boundary Agreement] about 750 sq. miles of territory, under the actual control of China, was ceded to Pakistan while Pakistan had to do nothing in return”.

Pakistani FM, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto also wiped the floor with Indian delegation when they raised this issue in UN Security Council dated 26 March 1963:

The Agreement concluded by the Government of Pakistan and the People’s Republic of China does not cause any material change whatsoever in the situation within Jammu and Kashmir. It does not in any manner alter the status quo. The facts are that Pakistan has not ceded even one square inch of territory to China. It has gained 750 square miles of territory, which had been in China’s occupation and control

Further Readings
Thus the matter is concluded. For more details:

  1. Question No. 13 by Dr. Makhdomi, Kashmiri academic.

  2. Map Fetish by AG Noorani, Indian lawyer and Author on Kashmir

  3. Facing the Truth by AG Noorani

  4. Who Ceded Land? by Dr. Ahmad Rashid Malik Director of the China-Pakistan Study Centre (CPSC) at the Institute of Strategic Studies Islamabad
 
Here you go princess, remember we only hate Hindu India we are quite happy with alliance with our allies

Dispelling myths: Did Pakistan cede Kashmiri territory of Shaksgam valley to China? No.
Historical
Since this is yet another point often raised by Indians in order to delegitimise Pakistan's role in the Kashmir conflict, both on state and individual level, Perhaps it is important to debunk this myth once and for all.

Myth
Pakistan ceded Trans-Karakoram tract or Shaksgam valley to China in Trans-Karakoram pact thus showing utter disregard for Kashmiri sovereignty or its own sovereignty.

Fact
Pakistan did not ‘gift’ any Kashmiri land to China. In fact, it gained 1942 sq kms (750 miles) from the Chinese, in the 1963 Sino-Pakistan boundary agreement. In fact, the Trans-Karakoram Tract, that Delhi claims- has been ‘gifted’ by Islamabad to Beijing, was not under Pakistani control that they could have vacated it and given it to China. The Treaty is public, so are the maps as a result of it which show Pakistan gaining the aforementioned amount of area and adding it to Gilgit-Baltistan rather than the other way around.

Background
Let's get to the root of the issue and how it all started.

The original territory demarcation issue was between China and British India, which arose as a result of 1846 Amritsar treaty in which the border with China was left unmarked. British authorities assigned W.H. Johnson, a survey officer to propose a line which was to be sent to Chinese government for negotiations. Authors Christopher Snedden and Alastair Lamb say that Mr. Johnson was unhappy with working conditions under East India Company and sought to join the court of Maharaja of Kashmir instead. To impress the Maharaja, he increased the size of the state in his created map by including Aksai Chin and Shaksgam Valley in Kashmir, both of which were in Chinese control. British authorities in Calcutta were annoyed and Johnson was disciplined by his superiors and his map was rejected. Maharaja however thought that Johnson had magically increased his territory by drawing few lines on the map and thus he was offered a job by Maharaja and appointed Wazir or Governor of Ladakh in 1872 as a reward. The line he created is called Johnson Line, which was rejected by British India, forget about China.

EIC however appointed Sir Claude MacDonald to create the new official British line which he did. It did not include the Chinese areas. British sent it to Chinese on 14th March 1899 with the proposal:

  1. China will withdraw all claims to Hunza valley
  2. British India will withdraw all claims to Shaksgam/Raskam and Taghdumbash
This is the McDonald Line.

Chinese did not respond, prompting British to inform them that their silence was taken as assent and Britain will act accordingly. Which Britain did.

Partition, Johnson Line, MacDonald Line
Fast forward, Partition happens, Pakistan and India become free, fight a war and divide Kashmir. But this is where the problem starts. Instead of taking up the McDonald line, Indian government officially adopted the Johnson line because the increased land (Or rather lines on a paper) impressed Nehru as much as it had impressed Maharaja. India made it official in 1954 in their published map.

Pakistan obviously did not have to tow Mr. Nehru's ridiculous line. Pakistan recognised McDonald Line......And that's all. And that's not all, When Pakistani cited historical evidence and connection of Gilgit-Baltistan to regions in Hunza, Karakoram watershed, K-2, Shimshal Pass etc, Zhou En Lai acknowledged them and Pakistan got 750 sqm from China which was added to Gilgit-Baltistan. Pakistan further asserted that traditional grazing grounds of the Hunza people be given to Pakistan because otherwise it would cause them huge distress, Chinese Premier said he'd confirm after checking Xinjiang province and after getting assent of the Uyghur, Chinese ceded it as well.

Protection of Kashmiri Sovereignty in case they choose Independence instead of Pakistan
And that's not all, Pakistan also took care to add the provision to secure Kashmiri sovereignty in future, pending the resolution of the dispute, in Article 6 of the treaty.

”The two parties have agreed that after the settlement of the Kashmir dispute between Pakistan and India, the sovereign authority concerned will reopen negotiations with the Government of the People’s Republic of China on the boundary as described in Article. Two of the present agreement, so as to sign a formal boundary treaty to replace the present agreement, provided that in the event of the sovereign authority being Pakistan, the provisions of the present agreement and of the aforesaid protocol shall be maintained in the formal boundary treaty to be signed between the People’s Republic of China and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan"

If you still don't understand how groundbreaking this deal was, imagine this. China went to all out war against India for this line which they absolutely refused to change. Whereas for Pakistan and Kashmir, China ceded 750 sqm and also recognized that a future sovereign Kashmiri government may renegotiate this border when they are free.

Supporting Quotes
Noted Indian Author on Kashmir, AG Noorani also Confirms this:

There is one statement, however, which is untrue. It concerns the Shaksgam Valley and asserts: Area ceded by Pakistan to China. Pakistan ceded no territory to China under their agreement of March 2, 1963. On the contrary, it received from China 750 square miles of administered territory beyond the watershed, the traditional grazing ground for people in Hunza. The added assertion claimed by India is factually correct. Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru did contest the validity of the agreement no sooner than it was published.

Anwar H. Syed in China and Pakistan: Diplomacy of an Entente Cordiale wrote:

“China ceded to Pakistan 750 square miles of territory beyond the main watershed of the Karakoram Range, compromising the Oprang Vally and the Darband-Darwaza pocket including its salt mines, Pakistan surrendered no part of the territory under her control”.

George L. Singleton reconfirmed Pakistan’s claim as under:

“According to this treaty [China-Pakistan Boundary Agreement] about 750 sq. miles of territory, under the actual control of China, was ceded to Pakistan while Pakistan had to do nothing in return”.

Pakistani FM, Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto also wiped the floor with Indian delegation when they raised this issue in UN Security Council dated 26 March 1963:

The Agreement concluded by the Government of Pakistan and the People’s Republic of China does not cause any material change whatsoever in the situation within Jammu and Kashmir. It does not in any manner alter the status quo. The facts are that Pakistan has not ceded even one square inch of territory to China. It has gained 750 square miles of territory, which had been in China’s occupation and control

Further Readings
Thus the matter is concluded. For more details:

  1. Question No. 13 by Dr. Makhdomi, Kashmiri academic.

  2. Map Fetish by AG Noorani, Indian lawyer and Author on Kashmir

  3. Facing the Truth by AG Noorani

  4. Who Ceded Land? by Dr. Ahmad Rashid Malik Director of the China-Pakistan Study Centre (CPSC) at the Institute of Strategic Studies Islamabad

Useless long winded giberish, didn't even bother to read. Thousands of such useless articles written by Pakistanis aiming to show they got something in return. I could post a hundred such articles showing otherwise. As I said, if you obtained territory, simply post a map and circle it in red. But we all know better, no such territory exists :lol:. British India maps from 1930s and 40s are extremely detailed. When compared with Pakistan's map today, there is simply no difference in the boundaries of Gilgit Baltistan except for Shaksgam valley, which was ceded to China without a fight. China might have given away 1-2 km here and there just so you could tell your people you got something in return, but overall, you surrendered 5500 sq km to avoid conflict.
 
Useless long winded giberish, didn't even bother to read. Thousands of such useless articles written by Pakistanis aiming to show they got something in return. I could post a hundred such articles showing otherwise. As I said, if you obtained territory, simply post a map and circle it in red. But we all know better, no such territory exists. British India maps from 1930s and 40s are extremely detailed. When compared with Pakistan's map today, there is simply no difference in the boundaries of Gilgit Baltistan except for Shaksgam valley, which was ceded to China without a fight. China might have given away 1-2 km here and there just so you you tell your people you got something in return, but overall, you surrendered 5500 sq km to avoid conflict.


:lol::lol::lol:

Consider it a way to screw India

We couldn't get enough forces their to secure the area leaving it very very susceptible to Indian occupation

So we swapped

China took the area

We got a great deal and got more land out of it

And we screwed india


Good days work:tup:
 
:lol::lol::lol:

Consider it a way to screw India

We couldn't get enough forces their to secure the area leaving it very very susceptible to Indian occupation

So we swapped

China took the area

We got a great deal and got more land out of it

And we screwed india


Good days work:tup:

:rofl::rofl:. So you couldn't find proof that China gave anything in return and now packaging a pitiful pussy *** surrender as a battle tactic. That's all i wanted to hear. :tup:. That's called ceding, not swap. If you swapped, go to google maps, circle the area in red given by China and post it for all to see.
 
:lol::lol::lol:

Consider it a way to screw India

We couldn't get enough forces their to secure the area leaving it very very susceptible to Indian occupation

So we swapped

China took the area

We got a great deal and got more land out of it

And we screwed india


Good days work:tup:
no need to argue with them. Their PM Modi couldn't even dare to utter the word 'China' :omghaha: after losing territory and 'men'.
 
:rofl::rofl:. So you couldn't find proof that China gave anything in return and now packaging a pitiful pussy *** surrender as a battle tactic. That's all i wanted to hear. :tup:. That's called ceding, not swap. If you swapped, go to google maps, circle the area in red given by China and post it for all to see.


Yaar don't take tension, it's bad for your blood pressure

I've told you what happened and your still crying

no need to argue with them. Their PM Modi couldn't even dare to utter the word 'China' :omghaha: after losing territory and 'men'.


They are crazy deluded people
 
Is this this the standard, moderators r striving for?.... sh$t of a thread fullnof troll.
 
So does my wife. She goes on shopping sprees when she's stressed.
 

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