India Plans Ten C17 Aircraft Buy Despite Boeing Plant Closure

[Ankit Kumar]

Plus some additional C295Ws can always be ordered to fill up the An32RE gap.

Yes, if we actually order 30 aircrafts, then .......

But yes vivid imagination lol

 

[Levina]

I wouldn't be so quick to blame the bureaucracy in this case @Aminroop. They certainly played their part but the timing was also very very unfortunate for India, the IAF were already the very last customer for Boeing and the follow-on clause was always going to be hard to execute. The IAF could hardly exercise that option and go for more before they had even received their last ordered unit- doing so would be have been highly improper

I do not intend to put the blame squarely on IAF but they did have 2 years in their hands to come up with something.
By 2013 it was abundantly clear that Boeing with lack of orders had decided to close its plant in California by 2015.
Out of the last 10 C-17s, 2 C-17s were picked up by Kuwaiti Air Force (2014), 1 by Royal Canadian Air Force (2014) and 2 more C17s were later ordered by Royal Australian Air Force by the end of 2014. Qatar emir Air Force made it demand in June 2015.
So if these forces could place their order in last 2 years then why not us is my question?

 

[PARIKRAMA]

I do not intend to put the blame squarely on IAF but they did have 2 years in their hands to come up with something.
By 2013 it was abundantly clear that Boeing with lack of orders had decided to close its plant in California by 2015.
Out of the last 10 C-17s, 2 C-17s were picked up by Kuwaiti Air Force (2014), 1 by Royal Canadian Air Force (2014) and 2 more C17s were later ordered by Royal Australian Air Force by the end of 2014. Qatar emir Air Force made it demand in June 2015.
So if these forces could place their order in last 2 years then why not us is my question?

@Aminroop Stares

She says about IAF/MOD decision making

and then tells @Abingdonboy whose defending IAF

and IAF/MOD as usual replies

 

[anant_s]

All well and good but no firm plan on how the MoD is going to source 10 addtional C-17s when there are 0 new builds on sale.



The SOLE option now is to go to the USAF's mothballed inventory- even if a few orders were cancelled for the "white tails" it would not be enough to meet this demand for an addtional 10 unless every single customer (RAAF, Qatar etc) pulled out, as only 10 white tails were made, and that looks highly improbable.

@PARIKRAMA @MilSpec @Aminroop @anant_s @Koovie

@Abingdonboy
i stand to be corrected here, but C-17 purchase is done through FMS route and US government is in loop. So if the sales are cleared, US administration understands clearly how to honor that agreement and where to get the planes from.
In all probability mothballed C 17s in USAF inventory will be supplied and this gives a chance to procure any additional pieces if need be.

 

[DRDO KALI 10000]

OK , Take the last one Damm lazy, then look for others for meeting your requirements.

 

[Killswitch]

Inidia has 10 C17s and wants 6 more. They will be supplied from mothballed stocks. Not a big deal.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I do not intend to put the blame squarely on IAF but they did have 2 years in their hands to come up with something.
By 2013 it was abundantly clear that Boeing with lack of orders had decided to close its plant in California by 2015.
Out of the last 10 C-17s, 2 C-17s were picked up by Kuwaiti Air Force (2014), 1 by Royal Canadian Air Force (2014) and 2 more C17s were later ordered by Royal Australian Air Force by the end of 2014. Qatar emir Air Force made it demand in June 2015.
So if these forces could place their order in last 2 years then why not us is my question?

I can fully understand your point of view, I simply feel as though circumstance got the better of the GoI/MoD/IAF, as the last customer of the C-17s the IAF was always going to be at a distinc disadvantage when it came to securing follow on orders. Unlike the RAAF, RCAF and UAEF who had all had C-17s in their service for a few years by 2015, the very last C-17 of the orginal 10 order was only delivered to the IAF a few months ago. As such it was not exactly possible to begin exercising the follow on clause in the contract (and orders beyond even that) before the orginal contract has even been completed to fruition and the performance of the aircraft fully analysed. These mechanisms take time and it was time the IAF just didn't have in this instance. For instance, when the IN first received their MiG-29Ks in 2009, they did not fully operationlise them in SQN service immediately, instead they created an Intensive Flying Unit (ITFU) to fully evaluate the aircraft's performance and create a doctrine for its use, it wasn't until 2013 when INAS 303 was offically "stod up" and the MiG-29K/KUB offically inducted into service by the IN. Yes this would be a far more complex task on a fighter aircraft but the principal remains. Remember this was an ENTIRELY new asset for the IAF- an airforce used to a very different style of transport aircraft (Russian), it was hard to predict in 2013 just how succesful and dependable the C-17 would become for the IAF.

Conversely, had the IAF/MoD exercised the follow-on clause or even gone for the full 10 addtional order in, say, 2013 (just as the first C-17 units were being delivered to the IAF) so as to ensure they could get 10 brand new airframes, but in 2014/15 the IAF had run into issues operating the C-17 to its full envelope, perhaps whilst on one of the many HADR deployments they had engaged in since 2013, then not only would the IAF have a white elephant fleet of 10 but now 20! This would have been a colossal and unprecedented scandal that would have cost the taxpayers in excess fo $10BN USD.

Sure, It is easy to see what should have been done now with the benefit of hindsight but procedures often exsist for a reason.


Perhaps I am too used to the less than nimble movements of government agencies and thus too willing to cut them some slack.

Inid a has 10 C17s and wants 6 more. They will be supplied from mothballed stocks. Not a big deal.

10 more.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

A good opportunity for make in India? Create a assembly line here and transfer technology. And even if someone wants it in future, they can order from here and USA will have a share in profits anyway.
If it becomes local manufacturing India will order more than 10.

 

[Killswitch]

If it really is 10 more thats good news. Hopefully a decision on the MRTA or C130J will be next for the transport fleet.

 

[Super Falcon]

Indian just went mad i say plz feed ur poor people first and to pak also but ratio is higher in india and india wasting lot more money than pak we have less but u better support poor indian people 1st

 

[IndoUS]

Indian just went mad i say plz feed ur poor people first and to pak also but ratio is higher in india and india wasting lot more money than pak we have less but u better support poor indian people 1st

You do realize that India is basically replacing ageing fleet which is down to 10 C-17 and some old IL-76 now, as for feeding the poor the government already spends more on development compared to defense spending and even after that a lot of defense budget is returned back to government every year since the military can't spend all of it.

 

[Bang Galore]

I do not intend to put the blame squarely on IAF but they did have 2 years in their hands to come up with something.
By 2013 it was abundantly clear that Boeing with lack of orders had decided to close its plant in California by 2015.
Out of the last 10 C-17s, 2 C-17s were picked up by Kuwaiti Air Force (2014), 1 by Royal Canadian Air Force (2014) and 2 more C17s were later ordered by Royal Australian Air Force by the end of 2014. Qatar emir Air Force made it demand in June 2015.
So if these forces could place their order in last 2 years then why not us is my question?

Err....no money.....! The UPA government had pretty much exhausted the coffers by 2013 & were already in the creative accounting mode. There was no chance of any purchase regardless of what the IAF might have wanted

 

[Levina]

Err....no money.....! The UPA government had pretty much exhausted the coffers by 2013 & were already in the creative accounting mode. There was no chance of any purchase regardless of what the IAF might have wanted

Just in case you missed it, I also said this....

I guess Boeing had sent repeated reminders to IAF and MoD officials but the legendary Indian Red tape and Bureaucracy could not judge urgent matter at hand, and take a call on pending request of Indian air force to pick up remaining 5 C-17s. Alas

 

[jhungary]

Inidia has 10 C17s and wants 6 more. They will be supplied from mothballed stocks. Not a big deal.

As per my understanding, there are currently no C-17 in mothball (inactive reserve), all C-17 are in active service, either with Regular AMC unit, or with Active Reserve, or ANG with association to AMC airwings.

Of course, plane can still be transfer during active duty, but chances are quite slim

 

[SR-91]

All well and good but no firm plan on how the MoD is going to source 10 addtional C-17s when there are 0 new builds on sale.



The SOLE option now is to go to the USAF's mothballed inventory- even if a few orders were cancelled for the "white tails" it would not be enough to meet this demand for an addtional 10 unless every single customer (RAAF, Qatar etc) pulled out, as only 10 white tails were made, and that looks highly improbable.

@PARIKRAMA @MilSpec @Aminroop @anant_s @Koovie

The true answer is MTA IN NUMBERS . f or get about c17s. MTA is the solution.