India may agree to deploy NATO missile system.

[pmukherjee]

Mate, I agree with your statement quoting ex army chief that we are preparing for two front war. we are well arming for defending ourselves but I will not agree that we face two front war any time of history but it was rather a two front threat not war. Our wars were always single front.


But now time changed, geopolitics also changed. China is much more powerful. Pakistan is closer to china like never before. lots of free weapons transfers by china. Chinese soldiers basing is Pakistan. It is more like if there is any skirmish or conflict with any of those both of them will come together than why should not we get the allies those wooing us to join them against a common enemy? Why we cannot share our technology, capability and above all our fighting capabilities? Two countries do not become friend just for nothing but for reasons. Pakistan and China is a big example next door.


Actually we were alone right from beginning. Only during 1971 Indira Gandhi sought for help against US direct military intervention in BD independence war.

Hi,
Highlighted part 1 - Yes it was only a two front threat and not a two front war. The translation of this in military terms was that we had to leave a sizable part of our infantry component in the form of our Mountain Divisions out of battle with Pakistan. If you factor in the Air Force component and the logistics that goes with supporting these Mountain Divisions, you will realise that in many areas of Indo Pak conflict in 1965, the absence of these forces resulted in grinding battles of attrition which did not give us a clear victory. That was how China influenced 1965.
Yes, in 1965 or 1971, we were not competent to defend against a full onslaught by China. These Mountain Divisions were to buy us the time to survive till the international fora stepped in and USSR made its presence felt.
Highlighted part 2
Please do not talk of the Pakistan-Chinese alliance. China gets access to the Arabian Sea, keeps India on its toes by propping up Pakistan etc etc. Pakistan has sold its soul for this. This is no friendship. Friendship is among equals. Pakistan and China are not equals by any stretch of imagination. We should not run into any relationship that enslaves us as Pakistan has been enslaved. Is the US ready to treat India as an equal? The day they do, we will meet them half way, but not an inch more.

 

[DV RULES]

Than prepare for next war, that is between India and China+Pakistan.

No,
There were no war because India kept itself out of these systems but it is obvious that Now it will make situation worse and bring China+ Pakistan & India on edge of war.

This is second major attempt from NATO/US to ignite war in south Asia.

 

[cyphercide]

No,
There were no war because India kept itself out of these systems but it is obvious that Now it will make situation worse and bring China+ Pakistan & India on edge of war.

This is second major attempt from NATO/US to ignite war in south Asia.

I don't think so.I like to think of the Chinese as people who think ten steps ahead.Just like how they supplied us with low grade Uranium to enrich a long time before they gave it out to Pakistan.I really don't think China would help you guys out in case of a conflict.

The best path Pakistan could follow is to solve their issues with the United States diplomatically and forcefully.

 

[HZR2011]

WIll NATO place its BMD missiles in India or will they share technology???

 

[Kinetic]

Hi,
Highlighted part 1 - Yes it was only a two front threat and not a two front war. The translation of this in military terms was that we had to leave a sizable part of our infantry component in the form of our Mountain Divisions out of battle with Pakistan. If you factor in the Air Force component and the logistics that goes with supporting these Mountain Divisions, you will realise that in many areas of Indo Pak conflict in 1965, the absence of these forces resulted in grinding battles of attrition which did not give us a clear victory. That was how China influenced 1965.
Yes, in 1965 or 1971, we were not competent to defend against a full onslaught by China. These Mountain Divisions were to buy us the time to survive till the international fora stepped in and USSR made its presence felt.

This was my point. it was not two front war but threat though we have to position some of our capabilities along Tibet border and USSR also came into question. Now Russia and China has good relation. When our enemy is not alone there is no point in being alone ourselves for some ideals.

Highlighted part 2
Please do not talk of the Pakistan-Chinese alliance. China gets access to the Arabian Sea, keeps India on its toes by propping up Pakistan etc etc. Pakistan has sold its soul for this. This is no friendship. Friendship is among equals. Pakistan and China are not equals by any stretch of imagination. We should not run into any relationship that enslaves us as Pakistan has been enslaved. Is the US ready to treat India as an equal? The day they do, we will meet them half way, but not an inch more.

Every relation is different. The way you have put China-Pakistan relation is more threatening to India than I have mentioned via 'friendship'. About the bold part, they have to be. Note the joint declaration during Obama's visit to India previous year. It talks about India and US working jointly for mutual interests in Africa, South east Asia and beyond. I think it is a good sign. Also note how India rejected many agreements with US which may gave US little room inside India like CISMOA etc. Thats why many times I said it is not like India joining NATO but there should be a new alliance (if it is needed) for new threat taking the countries facing the threat like Japan, India, US, Taiwan, Vietnam etc etc. Time has changed so as threat. US and India have to change and I think they will.

 

[DV RULES]

I don't think so.I like to think of the Chinese as people who think ten steps ahead.Just like how they supplied us with low grade Uranium to enrich a long time before they gave it out to Pakistan.I really don't think China would help you guys out in case of a conflict.

The best path Pakistan could follow is to solve their issues with the United States diplomatically and forcefully.

Not as you are thinking but it may cause a big change in relations.

 

[cyphercide]

Not as you are thinking but it may cause a big change in relations.

That is acceptable but as far I see things,Pakistan needs to keep it's safe distance from China.That maintains the equilibrium between US-Pakistan-China ties and allows Pakistan to benefit from both rather than the current path of taking sides and angering one of them.

 

[pmukherjee]

This was my point. it was not two front war but threat though we have to position some of our capabilities along Tibet border and USSR also came into question. Now Russia and China has good relation. When our enemy is not alone there is no point in being alone ourselves for some ideals.



Every relation is different. The way you have put China-Pakistan relation is more threatening to India than I have mentioned via 'friendship'. About the bold part, they have to be. Note the joint declaration during Obama's visit to India previous year. It talks about India and US working jointly for mutual interests in Africa, South east Asia and beyond. I think it is a good sign. Also note how India rejected many agreements with US which may gave US little room inside India like CISMOA etc. Thats why many times I said it is not like India joining NATO but there should be a new alliance (if it is needed) for new threat taking the countries facing the threat like Japan, India, US, Taiwan, Vietnam etc etc. Time has changed so as threat. US and India have to change and I think they will.

Yes, there is a convergence of interests between the US and India. But, India today is not the India of 1962. Yes, there is a big transition between a two front war threat and a two front war. Agreed, our govt has been sleeping but things are changing fast now. Lightning fast by our standards. Do you see China in a hurry to attack India? I do not. I think that China has more important things to worry about right now, on its immediate East. By the time they resolve the issues in the China Seas to their satisfaction, it will be too late for them as far as India is concerned. I also think that the Chinese know that and are reconciled to coexist with India as a neighbor.

Just remember, the West needs us a wee bit more than we need them. The Indian civilisation has existed for 5000 years, against all odds.

 

[ares]

No,
There were no war because India kept itself out of these systems but it is obvious that Now it will make situation worse and bring China+ Pakistan & India on edge of war.

This is second major attempt from NATO/US to ignite war in south Asia.

Why do you hypothesize that China will assist you in your war against India..they have never done it in the past!!

But since we are assuming stuff..then it would also be correct to assume that the NATO countries which are ready to provide such crucial tech to India to counter China would too assist India against Chinese...In the end the situation remains pretty much the same ..India+NATO against Pakistan+ China ..you still end up on the loosing side.

 

[Executioner]

Why do you hypothesize that China will assist you in your war against India..they never done it in the past!!

But since we are assuming stuff..then it would also be correct to assume that the NATO countries which are ready to provide such crucial tech to India to counter China would too assist India against Chinese...In the end the situation remains pretty much the same ..India+NATO against Pakistan+ China ..you still end up on the loosing side.

You forget my friend that statement in which China said "warned in unequivocal terms that any attack on Pakistan would be construed as an attack on China" and you can see the Chinese leadership was extremely forthcoming in assuring its unprecedented support to Pakistan for its national cause and security. We all can see that support they are getting, anyone can see who is in advantage position.

 

[cyphercide]

You forget my friend that statement in which China said "warned in unequivocal terms that any attack on Pakistan would be construed as an attack on China" and you can see the Chinese leadership was extremely forthcoming in assuring its unprecedented support to Pakistan for its national cause and security. We all can see that support they are getting, anyone can see who is in advantage position.

But when it comes to doing something they sly away.Take any Indo-Pak war as an example.They very well could have changed the course of the battle by involving themselves yet they never did.

 

[ares]

You forget my friend that statement in which China said "warned in unequivocal terms that any attack on Pakistan would be construed as an attack on China" and you can see the Chinese leadership was extremely forthcoming in assuring its unprecedented support to Pakistan for its national cause and security. We all can see that support they are getting, anyone can see who is in advantage position.

And who is attacking Pakistan here?

Pakistani guys are talking about how they will start a joint war effort against India .. in case India deploys BMD from NATO...to which my counter is incase China is assisting Pakistan, NATO will be assisting us.
But
Politicians and their promises!!..Guess Pakistan must have signed some mutual war pact(something along the lines ..in case one country gets attacked other joins in) just to make sure they follow through with their promise in their hour of need?

 

[Executioner]

But when it comes to doing something they sly away.Take any Indo-Pak war as an example.They very well could have changed the course of the battle by involving themselves yet they never did.

But its hard to understand for Pakistan.

And who is attacking Pakistan here?

Pakistani guys are talking about how they will start a joint war effort against India .. in case India deploys BMD from NATO...to which my counter is incase China is assisting Pakistan, NATO will be assisting us.
But
Politicians and their promises!!..Guess Pakistan must have signed some mutual war pact(something along the lines ..in case one country gets attacked other joins in) just to make sure they follow through with their promise in their hour of need?

Gods knows what type of harmony relationship they have and what type of mutual understanding they are developing. The politicians are really a big mess I just the too many wikileaks one leaks show how they used US fund against India US envoy to Pak justified funds as ‘defence’ against ‘threat from India’ - Indian Express

 

[Whazzup]

LOL this post takes the cake, you say we shouldn't deal with Nato i.e. US because they have blood on their hands, what about Israel? what about Russia? Heck What about India? Dealing with US or an nuclear tipped missile up your arse? Well you can very well keep your humanity to yourself, their is nothing bigger than Indian lives


ps: don't show no mercy cause you won't be shown none

A person should never let his practical thinking overule his moral one , You don't even know what kind of probelms we gonna face by any kind of cooperation with NATO in the past it has attacked two muslim nation and indian muslims will jump out of their chair with such kind of news.
And NATO is not going to give any kind of tech for free.

 

[Tshering22]

It should be conditional such that this missile system should not be targeted against Russia. Since now they are claiming to have a part in this, I don't think there is any harm in joining by risking our old friends.