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India loses Afghan proxy war

we should take the war to indian soil .
.
.
support Kashmiris and khalistani .

Pussies leading the Army and Govt for decades ensured that re-igniting Khalistan and Kashmir in the 80s/early 90s way is extremely difficult now.

We have a series of ball-less men to thank for that.
 
Yes, gangadesh lost the proxy-war through Afghanistan....

But the price we paid is 80K dead and loss of $220+Bln loss in economy... it is a very steep price that gangadesh extracted form us...

So let us not celeberate just yet...
Don't get mad, get even.
 
Posted on July 14, 2019 by M. K. BHADRAKUMAR

The Four-Party Meeting on the Afghan Peace Process, held in Beijing last Thursday and Friday, comprising China, the US, Russia and Pakistan, is a dramatic development auguring a peace settlement in Afghanistan. In a regional setting, it also signifies that Pakistan has inflicted a heavy defeat on India in the decade-old proxy war in Afghanistan.

The special envoys of the four countries who met in Beijing have issued a joint statement underscoring their consensus on peacemaking in Afghanistan and signalling their intention to speed up the peace process to a final settlement.

The salients of the joint statement are: first and foremost, the trilateral US-Russia-China format on Afghanistan has been expanded to include Pakistan, given the shared belief of the three big powers that “Pakistan can play an important role in facilitating peace in Afghanistan.”

Second, the four countries have endorsed the intra-Afghan meetings in Moscow and Doha in the recent months and called on relevant parties to “immediately start intra-Afghan negotiations between the Taliban, Afghan government, and other Afghans” with a view to “produce a peace framework as soon as possible.”

Third, they have urged that the peace framework should “guarantee the orderly and responsible transition of the security situation and detail an agreement on a future inclusive political arrangement acceptable to all Afghans.”

Four, the joint statement encourages the Afghan parties to scale down violence “leading to a comprehensive and permanent ceasefire that starts with intra-Afghan negotiations.”

Finally, the four countries have resolved to maintain the momentum of their consultation and “will invite other important stakeholders to join on the basis of the trilateral consensus agreed on April 25, 2019 in Moscow, and this broader group will meet when intra-Afghan negotiations start.”

All in all, the Four-Party format will henceforth chariot the Afghan peace process — monitoring its progress, mentoring the Afghan protagonists, fine-tuning the intra-Afghan negotiations and so on.

In an upbeat note, the US Special Representative Zalmay Khalilzad tweeted from Beijing on Friday that the four countries agreed that “intra-Afghan negotiations between the Taliban, the Afghan government, and other Afghans should start immediately; that these negotiations should produce a peace framework as soon as possible; and detail a future inclusive political arrangement acceptable to all Afghans.”

Khalilzad added, “We also agreed that violence needs to slow now and a comprehensive and permanent ceasefire should start with intra-Afghan negotiations. We agreed we will expand and ask more international partners to join with the start of negotiations. Very positive.”

In sum, US, Russia and China who are tiptoeing toward a new Cold War, seem to set aside their differences and disputes and seek and end to the Afghan war. Curiously enough, the Pentagon’s recent Indo-Pacific Strategy Report (released in June) called China a “revisionist power” and Russia a “revitalised malign actor”, but last weekend, all three were tangoing in Beijing like nobody’s business.

Indeed, this is how the “great game” was always played in Central Asia — intense rivalries interspersed with interludes when rival powers retired to the shade, nursed their injuries and brooded over next moves on the shifting landscape.

It is hard to believe that post-war Afghanistan will witness the end of history. For the present, the game stands suspended. However, when China’s shadows lengthen over the Hindu Kush and Afghanistan transforms as a hub of the Belt and Road Initiative, which is inexorable, the great game will resume.

As the US vacates its occupation, China becomes the dominant presence in the Hindu Kush. The US would have no prospects of regaining its lost hegemony in Afghanistan for a foreseeable future — perhaps, never.

The Four-Party format crystallises Pakistan’s crucial role as a factor of Afghan security and stability. This works in China’s favour and, paradoxically, makes Pakistan an indispensable partner for the US (and Russia) as well. Washington and its western allies have no option but to depend on Pakistan to ensure that Afghanistan will not become a “lab of terrorists” (to borrow President Trump’s words.)

Pakistan’s relations with China will acquire a new verve as the BRI spreads its wings in Afghanistan. The growing Russian interest in the CPEC will take concrete form. A revival of Pakistan’s moribund strategic ties with the US is already under way.

Without doubt, India is the big loser. Pakistan has worsted India in the Afghan proxy war and the defeat becomes a template of regional politics. The Indian analysts put the blame on the US, arguing that Washington ditched India after leading it up the garden path. Indeed, President Trump once hailed the Modi government as the US’ number one partner in its South Asian strategy. But does the fault lie with the US?

From the American viewpoint, Afghanistan has become a “bleeding wound” (as Gorbachev described the Soviet defeat in Afghanistan), causing big drain in resources. In the final analysis, the Indian policymakers failed to read the tea leaves correctly when it became apparent that the so-called Afghan surge under Gen. David Petraeus ended inconclusively by September 2012, with no fanfare at the Pentagon and no proclamation of success from the Obama White House.

Fundamentally, the Indian policy failure lies in turning Afghanistan into a turf to wage a proxy war against Pakistan. In the zero-sum mindset, Delhi overlooked that Pakistan has legitimate interests in Afghanistan — no less than what India would have in, say, Nepal — and that by virtue of culture, tribal and ethnic affinity or sheer geography and economic and social compulsions, Afghans can never do without Pakistan.

Delhi regarded the Taliban as a progeny of the Pakistani intelligence and military, but that was never the whole story of Afghan insurgency and resistance. Delhi was impervious to other ground realities too — such as that Kabul government was lacking legitimacy, that massive corruption was undermining the state; and, importantly, that this was an unwinnable war and a reconciliation with the Taliban was the only way out.

A long haul lies ahead for India now to regain the lost influence in Kabul. Meanwhile, India will have to reconcile with the geopolitical reality that Afghanistan comes under the Chinese orbit for the first time in the history of our region.

But the spectre that is haunting Delhi is the strong likelihood of a Taliban takeover in Afghanistan and of a Sharia state emerging in India’s neighbourhood. How come Indian diplomacy failed to stop this happening?

The short answer is that the obsessive focus on the proxy war meant that India missed the wood for the trees. The intelligence and security establishment was on the driving seat and there was no sustained effort to network at the diplomatic level with like-minded countries, especially Iran and Russia, or to mobilise international opinion against a Taliban takeover in Afghanistan. This policy failure will have serious consequences. Once the US withdrawal is over, India has to deal with a triumphalist Pakistan that gains immense strategic depth vis-a-vis India.

Meanwhile, the big powers are busy securing their specific interests with Pakistani help and cooperation, which leaves India out in the lurch. The latest al-Qaeda call for “jihad” in India needs to be taken seriously. But India has cried “wolf” so often that no one may take it seriously when the wolf finally arrives at the doorstep.

A close analysis of the Doha Agreement following the so-called intra-Afghan talks on July 7-8 shows disturbing signs that the Taliban may have “marched closer to their stated objectives of enforcing Islamic shari’a rule in Afghanistan and of restructuring the Afghan government institutions, including the military, to their liking.” This is the expert assessment of the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) headquartered in Washington, after studying the three different versions of the Doha Agreement and the Taliban’s own version. Read it here.

https://indianpunchline.com/india-loses-afghan-proxy-war/
 
It is also possible to interpret that the war was actually between USA and Pakistan, hence it is no surprise that Pakistan must be present at the negotiating table.

Pakistan won by allowing USA to "occupy Moscow", like the Tsars allowed Napoleon to do centuries ago. Then Napoleon realised he couldn't hold Moscow and off he ran, trying to escape with as many men as possible. USA is also tired of this quagmire and the unbearable expense involved managing that hellhole of a country. Trump is now trying to beat an orderly retreat.
 
Hahahaha.
Author is MK Bhadrakumar.
Each of his predictions on Indian foreign policy have ended up as wrong.:rofl:rofl:

He is the same guy who claimed in Aug 2016 that Pak-Iran & Afghanistan will form joint alliance against RAW in Balochistan and also the same guy who claimed in 2018 Sri Lanka and Maldives will give forward basing rights to China and Pakistan navies. :lol::lol:

Meanwhile in the real world, India has been invited to join the next meeting as US, Russia and China have agreed to expand the meet to include all regional stakeholders.
So India will join KSA, Germany & Tajikistan in the next meeting by group on Afghanistan to be held in September 1st week.




And as usual, a completely delusional chipmunk just drops in to talk about his own fantasy and how he is going to convince his own small brain, while completely oblivious to what is being discussed or the actual facts and logic behind it.
I only feel sorry for you fellas, must be really tough to be this level of delusional.
 
Great analysis. In many aspects this is an accurate analysis from Indian POV. Indians tried to manage the latest Afghan conflict the Pakistani way. by that i mean is that their security and intelligence apparatus was in the riving seat, and due to lack of experience in managing regional/global level disruptions, they fucked it all up. Had they cornered Pakistan effectively by using their diplomatic muscle, they would have succeeded. they did try to do that but it was later in the game. had they started doing it back in 2004/05 they would have probably succeeded.
 
india won ! ... stop this lie that india lost and Pakistan won etc to make yourself feel better
  • india made half of Afghanistan against us
  • india have more conselates in afghanistan
  • do you know Afghanistan stopped Pakistani engineers to work in their country but not indians ?
  • afghanistan wants to trade with india than Pakistan
  • their army is getting trained in India
  • india destroyed Pakistan economy with afghanistan terrorism
  • Pakistan is destabilized country now. and india is stronger than ever
 
india won ! ... stop this lie that india lost and Pakistan won etc to make yourself feel better
  • india made half of Afghanistan against us
  • india have more conselates in afghanistan
  • do you know Afghanistan stopped Pakistani engineers to work in their country but not indians ?
  • afghanistan wants to trade with india than Pakistan
  • their army is getting trained in India
  • india destroyed Pakistan economy with afghanistan terrorism
  • Pakistan is destabilized country now. and india is stronger than ever

LoL :lol:
 

Why would Pakistan ever want that? Afghanistan is a hellhole, best we leave it be and guard our borders against it. It will keep on burning the way it has burned for the past hundreds of years, would not be very wise to invite those fires into our own house. Did it once, still paying for it.

I would say taking Afghanistan gives Pakistan the strategic depth that it really needs.
 
India loses proxy war ?? lol...

firstly..India was never there for a proxy war... India means business and nothing else.

On another note, i'd say its better if these (or any other country) gets involved in peace process in Afghanistan.... India should just continue doing whats it doing , the development work. The Afghans know who is doing what in Afghanistan. That's how you win a country... through its people ! and we know whom Afghans love and whom they hate ;).. you guys can continue working towards peace in Afghanistan though..India welcomes your effort :)
 
India loses proxy war ?? lol...

firstly..India was never there for a proxy war... India means business and nothing else.

On another note, i'd say its better if these (or any other country) gets involved in peace process in Afghanistan.... India should just continue doing whats it doing , the development work. The Afghans know who is doing what in Afghanistan. That's how you win a country... through its people ! and we know whom Afghans love and whom they hate ;).. you guys can continue working towards peace in Afghanistan though..India welcomes your effort :)

Ur dumb to think a country like india would invest in Afghanistan for pire business.. india was very much there to damage and reduce Pakistani influence and it did to some extent. India miscalculated n put all its eggs in one basket, they thought it will play out like in iraq, so they invested in new US backed govt. Now that govt is a mere puppet and taliban will soon be back to rule and believe me they hate india.
Once taliban are back and legitimate majority comes forward, ull see who they love n hate. Northen alliance will always be with india but they will hold little power.
 
India should just continue doing whats it doing , the development work. The Afghans know who is doing what in Afghanistan. That's how you win a country... through its people ! and we know whom Afghans love and whom they hate ;).. you guys can continue working towards peace in Afghanistan though..India welcomes your effort :)

Now think about the same line but specify your focus. Who do you think Pashtun Afghans love and who do you think they regard as kaafir idol worshippers ;)

In today's Afghanistan----which faction do you think has the upper hand? Pashtun faction primarily led by Taliban or Northern Alliance faction (Persian Afghans) led by "govt"

:cheesy::cheesy::cheesy:

On topic: As things come to their logical end, looks like Pakistan is again headed for a total victory in Afghanistan Inshallah!

No wonder indians are desperate and writing articles after articles about how india got f*cked in Afghanistan yet again.

Here is another post of mine in a similar thread. Fits here as well...

Lol, what influence does india has outside its borders? :lol: F*ck, it barely has any influence inside its own borders. Kashmir is a perfect example...

Pakistan has exerted far greater influence outside our borders than india ever did, or ever will in most likelyhood. indian geography by its very existence is very limiting. indian landmass controls access to.....Nepal, and Bhuttan. Wow so strategic :rofl:

Whereas, Pakistani geography gives it controlling access to strategic and resource abundant Central Asia, conflict zone of Afghanistan, and shortest logistic routes to the warm waters of Arabian Sea (From Russia and downward lands). Not to mention, Pakistani coasts on Balochistan are right on the mouth of Persian Gulf---the hub of the world's energy trade.

There is a reason Pakistan is on table when it comes to peace process and negotiations of U.S exist strategy....while indians are busy trying to finally build Ram Mandir in their own land (which is hindu majority, mind you!):haha:
 
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With atomic bombs you dont need strategic depth.. you talking about post 1998 era
Meh nukes in Asia... It's just so weird to think about it.
You can kill a billion Indians, and there will still be 400 million left.

In 40 years they'll make another billion.
 
India needs to put boots on the ground to safeguard it's hard earned gains and protect it's many consulates,( and let's not forget the library Modi keeps telling Trump about) which are vital in looking after the Indian diaspora in Afghanistan. It'll show the Afghan government how committed they are to them and it'll show the world how far they have come as a superpower. It will also keep the Pakistan loving Taliban in it's place.
 
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