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India-Iran, Qatar SeaPipeline Not Possible without Pakistan's Approval

its better not to have any knowledge rather to have 'incomplete knowledge'

NOW READ THESE ARTICLES & CLAUSES SLOWLY ..........


The above quoted clause (1) of article 58 which debates about the 'FREEDOM' of 'all states' (coastal & Land lock) in EEZ in relation to navigation, overflight & of laying of submarine cables & pipelines is actually subjecting these freedom under Article 87 of PART VII of the same United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea
relevant clause are stated under



Again the clause (1) sub clause (c) of Article 87 is referring to the Part VI of the convention (which deals with the 'subjective freedom' of state or states for laying Submarine cables or pipelines on the continental shelf); in order for State or States to exercise the given 'subjective freedom' by UN under the convention to lay the undersea pipeline the following clause 79 of Part VI is applicable, which is stated below



The clause 3 of article 79 of the UN convention on the law of sea has explicitly mention that consent of coastal state is necessary for delineation of such pipeline projects; while the clause clause 4 has clarified that no given freedom to States (other then COASTAL STATE) under this clause affect the right of coastal state over its jurisdiction in EEZ.

Now back to Article 58 clause 3 (mention as under) clearly instructs STATES to respect & to comply with the LAWS & REGULATIONS of COASTAL STATE in EEZ



Now after quoting these number of clauses which have made it clear that India can't even 'initiate' the pipeline project in Pakistani EEZ all its own without the consent (read 'approval') of Pakistan; I want to ask you that how did you reach to conclusion that India have all the right to lay down an undersea pipeline in 'Pakistan's EEZ' but Pakistan have no right under the the international law even in Pakistan's EEZ & why you ignored the following wordings of Article 58 clause 1 (posted by you in your post)


either you are just another Indian troll or you just copy & pasted the (incomplete) clause from some Indian forum without even understanding the matter.
either you are just another Indian troll or you just copy & pasted the (incomplete) clause from some Indian forum without even understanding the matter.




The reason I didn't bother with
Now read this,,,,,,,,,,,,,, slowly.


Article58

Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone

1. In the exclusive economic zone, all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.

PREAMBLE TO THE UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA

Pakistan can do squat to prevent this pipeline. Your territorial water ends at 12NM. You cannot prevent India or anyone else from laying down a pipeline even 13NM outside your coastline.
is because it is useless. As shall be demonstrated below

Article 56
Rights, jurisdiction and duties of the coastal State
in the exclusive economic zone. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State has:
1.(a) sovereign rights for the purpose of exploring and exploiting, conserving and managing the natural resources, whether living or non-living, of the waters superjacent to the seabed and of the seabed and its subsoil, and with regard to other activities for the economic exploitation and exploration of the zone, such as the production of energy from the water, currents and winds;
(b) jurisdiction as provided for in the relevant provisions of this Convention with regard to:
(i) the establishment and use of artificial islands, installations and structures;
(ii) marine scientific research;
(iii) the protection and preservation of the marine environment;
(c) other rights and duties provided for in this Convention.

2. In exercising its rights and performing its duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have due regard to the rights and duties of other States and shall act in a manner compatible with the provisions of this Convention.
3. The rights set out in this article with respect to the seabed and subsoil shall be exercised in accordance with Part VI.
__________________________________________________________________________________

These and only these are the 'sovereign rights' that a coastal state enjoys over its maritime EEZ. Basically speaking you have
a) Jurisdiction on exploring and exploiting the living and non-living resources of the area such as oil and gas.
b) Jurisdiction over Art 56(1)(b)(i), Art 56(1)(b)(ii), Art 56(1)(b)(iii).


Also, by applying LOS. Art 56 (3), the laying of submarine pipelines on the shelf of the EEZ is regulated by the regime established for the continental shelf - Art 79


But before going to Art 79, lets have a re-look

Article 58
Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone.
In the exclusive economic zone, all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.
2. Articles 88 to 115 and other pertinent rules of international law apply to the exclusive economic zone in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.
3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

_________________________________________________________________________________________


Article 79
1.Submarine cables and pipelines on the continental shelf.
All States are entitled to lay submarine cables and pipelines on the continental shelf, in accordance with the provisions of this article.
2. Subject to its right to take reasonable measures for the exploration of the continental shelf, the exploitation of its natural resources and the prevention, reduction and control of pollution from pipelines, the coastal State may not impede the laying or maintenance of such cables or pipelines.
3. The delineation of the course for the laying of such pipelines on the continental shelf is subject to the consent of the coastal State.
4. Nothing in this Part affects the right of the coastal State to establish conditions for cables or pipelines entering its territory or territorial sea, or its jurisdiction over cables and pipelines constructed or used in connection with the exploration of its continental shelf or exploitation of its resources or the operations of artificial islands, installations and structures under its jurisdiction.
5. When laying submarine cables or pipelines, States shall have due regard to cables or pipelines already in position. In particular, possibilities of repairing existing cables or pipelines shall not be prejudiced.
_______________________________________________________________________________________


First of all, coming to Art 79(3), the supposed trump card of our larger than Himalaya hearts Pakistani friends, CLOS requires that a coastal state must act bona fide, meaning that the state must act in good faith with honest intentions and beliefs.
Article 300
Good faith and abuse of rights
States Parties shall fulfil in good faith the obligations assumed under this Convention and shall exercise the rights, jurisdiction and freedoms recognized in this Convention in a manner which would not constitute an abuse of right.


So what other option does the state have left to deny permission for delineation? Lets see.
Art 79, declare that all states are entitled to lay offshore pipelines and cables on the continental shelf of another state. The coastal states have sovereign rights in the EEZ, but this does not mean sovereignty over the EEZ. For that reason, a coastal state have only those rights given by LOS and cannot interfere with commercial activity by other states in the EEZ unless such activity directly challenges the coastal state’s sovereign rights or duties as mentioned in Art 56. Of most significance here is the duty of the coastal state to to prevent, limit and control pollution from pipelines. The Coastal State can call for an EIA and delay the pipeline, but if the EIA does not clearly demonstrate that the impact on the environment would be negative, then practically speaking, your defence is over unless Pakistan have any artificial islands on the route. Any other attempt to delay will also be judged under the lens of bona fide, so don't even think about it.

Basically speaking, your authority to grant consent to the delineation to the course of the pipeline is not absolute but functional

@Roybot @Abingdonboy @special @nik141991 @SrNair @WAR-rior @jaatram @ares @Nair saab @Kiarash @OrionHunter @A$HU @Agni-5 @Echo_419 @eowyn @ganesh177 @wadi79 @Neemo neemo

 
Last edited by a moderator:
. .
The reason I didn't bother with

is because it is useless. As shall be demonstrated below

Article 56
Rights, jurisdiction and duties of the coastal State
in the exclusive economic zone. In the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State has:
1.(a) sovereign rights for the purpose of exploring and exploiting, conserving and managing the natural resources, whether living or non-living, of the waters superjacent to the seabed and of the seabed and its subsoil, and with regard to other activities for the economic exploitation and exploration of the zone, such as the production of energy from the water, currents and winds;
(b) jurisdiction as provided for in the relevant provisions of this Convention with regard to:
(i) the establishment and use of artificial islands, installations and structures;
(ii) marine scientific research;
(iii) the protection and preservation of the marine environment;
(c) other rights and duties provided for in this Convention.

2. In exercising its rights and performing its duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, the coastal State shall have due regard to the rights and duties of other States and shall act in a manner compatible with the provisions of this Convention.
3. The rights set out in this article with respect to the seabed and subsoil shall be exercised in accordance with Part VI.
__________________________________________________________________________________

These and only these are the 'sovereign rights' that a coastal state enjoys over its maritime EEZ. Basically speaking you have
a) Jurisdiction on exploring and exploiting the living and non-living resources of the area such as oil and gas.
b) Jurisdiction over Art 56(1)(b)(i), Art 56(1)(b)(ii), Art 56(1)(b)(iii).


Also, by applying LOS. Art 56 (3), the laying of submarine pipelines on the shelf of the EEZ is regulated by the regime established for the continental shelf - Art 79


But before going to Art 79, lets have a re-look

Article 58
Rights and duties of other States in the exclusive economic zone.
In the exclusive economic zone, all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.
2. Articles 88 to 115 and other pertinent rules of international law apply to the exclusive economic zone in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.
3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

_________________________________________________________________________________________


Article 79
1.Submarine cables and pipelines on the continental shelf.
All States are entitled to lay submarine cables and pipelines on the continental shelf, in accordance with the provisions of this article.
2. Subject to its right to take reasonable measures for the exploration of the continental shelf, the exploitation of its natural resources and the prevention, reduction and control of pollution from pipelines, the coastal State may not impede the laying or maintenance of such cables or pipelines.
3. The delineation of the course for the laying of such pipelines on the continental shelf is subject to the consent of the coastal State.
4. Nothing in this Part affects the right of the coastal State to establish conditions for cables or pipelines entering its territory or territorial sea, or its jurisdiction over cables and pipelines constructed or used in connection with the exploration of its continental shelf or exploitation of its resources or the operations of artificial islands, installations and structures under its jurisdiction.
5. When laying submarine cables or pipelines, States shall have due regard to cables or pipelines already in position. In particular, possibilities of repairing existing cables or pipelines shall not be prejudiced.
_______________________________________________________________________________________


First of all, coming to Art 79(3), the supposed trump card of our larger than Himalaya hearts Pakistani friends, CLOS requires that a coastal state must act bona fide, meaning that the state must act in good faith with honest intentions and beliefs.
Article 300
Good faith and abuse of rights
States Parties shall fulfil in good faith the obligations assumed under this Convention and shall exercise the rights, jurisdiction and freedoms recognized in this Convention in a manner which would not constitute an abuse of right.


So what other option does the state have left to deny permission for delineation? Lets see.
Art 79, declare that all states are entitled to lay offshore pipelines and cables on the continental shelf of another state. The coastal states have sovereign rights in the EEZ, but this does not mean sovereignty over the EEZ. For that reason, a coastal state have only those rights given by LOS and cannot interfere with commercial activity by other states in the EEZ unless such activity directly challenges the coastal state’s sovereign rights or duties as mentioned in Art 56. Of most significance here is the duty of the coastal state to to prevent, limit and control pollution from pipelines. The Coastal State can call for an EIA and delay the pipeline, but if the EIA does not clearly demonstrate that the impact on the environment would be negative, then practically speaking, your defence is over unless Pakistan have any artificial islands on the route. Any other attempt to delay will also be judged under the lens of bona fide, so don't even think about it.

Basically speaking, your authority to grant consent to the delineation to the course of the pipeline is not absolute but functional

@Roybot @Abingdonboy @special @nik141991 @SrNair @WAR-rior @jaatram @ares @Nair saab @Kiarash @OrionHunter @A$HU @Agni-5 @Echo_419 @eowyn @ganesh177 @wadi79 @Neemo neemo


Dude, F@k. You're banned. :enjoy:

shows a thing or two about truth digestion ofmembers here.

Farewell:victory1:
 
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Okay - accepted, India cannot lay a sub-sea gas pipeline. Happy?

India doesn't need to. In case you didn't know, India imports close to 7.5 million tons of natural gas every year from Qatar, as LNG. India already has 4 LNG receiving terminals with a capacity of 25 million tons importing gas from all over the world . The existing terminals are also being expanded, as the infrastructure such as jetties etc. is already there.

India also imports natural gas from Oman - in an indirect manner. India is a big user of urea, and natural gas is an input used for urea production. India and Oman have jointly set up a urea manufacturing unit in Oman, with India as the major customer.

If the sanctions on Iran are resolved, Iran will be free to put up either gas pipelines or LNG terminals. In case of pipelines, the seller is dependent on a single customer. In case of LNG terminals, a seller can also tie up multiple customers - India, Japan, South Korea, China etc. Iranian gas in the world market will help deepen the global LNG market and should benefit buyers as well, because a deeper market is more difficult to manipulate. Meanwhile, India is also planning a LNG terminal on its east-coast - it will be a simple matter to connect Bangladesh, which is also short of gas, to this terminal via a pipeline. Bangladesh can import the gas via India - they'll be saving the expenditure of putting up a $1-2 billion import terminal, Indian companies will be able to make some extra money and south-Asian trade will increase.

Secondly, if sanctions are resolved, Iran will also be free to jointly set up urea manufacturing units with India. This will give Iran an added benefit - local employment generation and value addition over selling just natural gas. Other Asian nations, such as Bangladesh also are large urea importers. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to participate in such a project, because fertilizer security is food security. If they can get a cheap and reliable source of fertilizer, it solves their problems as well.

Now keyboard warriors can go back to chest thumping about their super-strategic geo-strategic position and how they sit on Asia's energy pathways and trade crossroads.
 
. . . .
Clause 1 clearly states we can create pipeline

Only if you have read my post little carefully you should known that I have used the word "subjective freedom" without contradicting the Article 58 clause (1) on the basis of Article 79 clause (3 & 4)

Now coming to clause 3....it says that the delineation of the course is subject to the concern of the coastal state....what delineation means is drawing a precise boundary.....and what clause 3 indicates is .....the path/route shall be decided by the coastal state......

Which mean India will have to engage Pakistan in this project as well & that will effectively kill the purpose of 'INDIAN PURPOSED UNDERSEA PIPELINE PROJECT'. As per original plan that pipeline was supposed to be laid down outside the boundary of Pakistan's previous EEZ, totally ignoring Pakistan (see attachment)

Previous EEZ of Pakistan

Iran-Oman-India under sea pipline.PNG


New EEZ of Pakistan

extended continental shelf of pakistan.jpg


Indian government had different plans but now the situation is different accept it, I haven't wrote the under quoted sentence in my previous post without any reason .....

India can't even 'initiate' the pipeline project in Pakistani EEZ all its own without the consent (read 'approval') of Pakistan

read the above sentence in context of Article 79 clause 3 stated below

3. The delineation of the course for the laying of such pipelines on the continental shelf is subject to the consent of the coastal State.


And if we go by the freedom of seas clause in part VII or by the article 58,then it clearly indicates that we have the right to make a pipeline there....

Clause 2 states that the coastal state can't impede(meaning to stop) the construction or maintenance of any pipeline

2. Subject to its right to take reasonable measures for the exploration of the continental shelf, the exploitation of its natural resources and the prevention, reduction and control of pollution from pipelines, the coastal State may not impede the laying or maintenance of such cables or pipelines.

There is a difference of world between two words CAN'T and MAY not

Read the clauses again and quote me back if you find any wrong in my post...

Now I think its time for you to read the clauses again ......
 
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Only if you have read my post little carefully you should known that I have used the word "subjective freedom" without contradicting the Article 58 clause (1) on the basis of Article 79 clause (3 & 4)



Which mean India will have to engage Pakistan in this project as well & that will effectively kill the purpose of 'INDIAN PURPOSED UNDERSEA PIPELINE PROJECT'. As per original plan that pipeline was supposed to be laid down outside the boundary of Pakistan's previous EEZ, totally ignoring Pakistan (see attachment)

Previous EEZ of Pakistan

View attachment 222572

New EEZ of Pakistan

View attachment 222573

Indian government had different plans but now the situation is different accept it, I haven't wrote the under quoted sentence in my previous post without any reason .....



read the above sentence in context of Article 79 clause 3 stated below








There is a difference of world between two words CAN'T and MAY not



Now I think its time for you to read the clauses again ......
I have read it thoroughly
According to the clause we have to bring Pakistan on board....I never did deny that......
But no where in the clauses it is mentioned that the coastal state can stop the construction of pipeline
 
. . .
I agree



'May'
Dont waste ur time, its a shock ,it will take some time for them to accept.

And when pakistan never comes on board, which she isnt going to , nothing is happening,

Awwwwww. 3rd pipeline project turned into pipe dream.

Aisa bhi hota hai.
 
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I think Pakistan should not sabotage Indian-Iran deep sea water gass pipeline deal or Indo-Oman deal. No purpose.
 
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To my Indian friends, you guys realize China will build railway track from Gwader to China? Here is map of railway track. So I wonder if this will make any difference in cost of transporting goods from Gwader to China? :)


Pakistan_Railways_Network_Map.png
 
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