India helicopter deal with Italy firm 'may be cancelled'

[Abingdonboy]

Sad even Prez Obama did not purchase these Choppers but our corrupt Indian politicans who get rich off the poor deserve such. Wow

Please don't resort to regurgitating sensationalist BS you have seen in the desi media. President Obama could afford to scrap the deal because his existing fleet of helos was already state of the art and could be upgraded. The helos these AW-101s were replacing are dated Mi-8s and Mi-17s with serious safety concerns, these helos don't have ATAS, redundant flight controls or even a modern self defensive suite. The very highest leadership who fly in these birds ie the president and PM are at a genuine and real risk the longer they fly in these birds there is a reason the IAF sought out a replacement.


Are you seriously suggesting the PM paid bribes personally? Grow up.

 

[Backbencher]

Tyagi in his interview clearly was protecting the ministers and denied any political hand in the deal !!

 

[Abingdonboy]

Prasun Sengupta's take:

To Anon@5.39PM: What I had said was that the contract for 12 AgustaWestland AW-101s was devoid of any wrongdoing from the Indian side, i.e. no bribes or commissions were paid in order to secure the contract simply because the results of the competitive bidding process were made known to both AgustaWestland & Sikorsky in a transparent manner & that’s how the AW-101 had prevailed over the S-92. Financial impropriety is committed only when one wants to appear to be more equal than others in a competitive bidding scenario. In this case, the ASQR originally drafted by IAF HQ on behalf of the Special Protection Group (SPG) was so outrageous that none of the contenders could ensure compliance with the ASQR. Then both OEMs (AgustaWestland & Sikorksy) made representations to the Special Protection Group for diluting the ASQR parameters & this was done. Finally, it emerged that the AW-101 had scored the maximum number of compliance-related points. What happened next is that Finmeccanica over-charged the Govt of India to the tune of 51 million Euros & this amount was routed through Switzerland-based consultant Guido Ralph Haschke & UK-based Christian Michel to Finmeccanica’s CEO Giuseppe Orsi who in turn transferred this money to Italy’s Lega Nord political party.
Now, the ‘desi’ mass-media entities are tying themselves up in knots by speculating that either the IAF HQ or the SPG was financially compromised & induced to declare the AW-101 as the winner of the competition. But so far, no money-trail has been conclusively established & what Italian investigators are suspecting is that money laundering took place in which funds were routed to India through Tunisia and Mauritius. Now, just ask yourself this question: would any India-based arms dealer ever bring inside India his/her ill-gotten wealth, or will he/she prefer to park such funds in an offshore account outside India?
In conclusion, therefore, once the case goes to the Italian courts, it will emerge that there were no corrupt practices followed inside India & all wrongdoings took place within Italy & involved mainly Italian citizens. At the most, the Govt of India will be legally entitled to penalise Finmeccanica for overcharging to the tune of 51 million Euros & will claim liquidated damages from Finmeccanica.

Does anyone remember how last year there was the same media frenzy that fizzled into NOTHING?!!

 

[cloud_9]

TOI Ticker

India suspends payments for Finmeccanica helicopters, delivery of remaining choppers after graft allegations

 

[Abingdonboy]

When this news turns out to be false I hope the former ACM sues the Italian prosecutors for wrongfully naming him to the world as corrupt.

This example is just another case tht goes to show the complete lack of proffesionalism or balance present in the Indian media, it seems that one person tells a lie or half-truth and every other outlet jumps on this and propogates these falsehoods without doing their own research or veryifying the news.

This is slanderous if nothing else. It is in fact VERY dangerous as the Indian media again and again fabricates complete stories out of the tiniest of non-issues and blows them up. They are acting against the interests of India- tomorrow these idiots could jump on the MMRCA deal and the deal would be set back months for no reason than one shoddy journo has got his facts wrong and reported on assumptions. Same could happen with any major deal, these lazy and shoddy journos could harm Indian national security.

 

[arp2041]

When this news turns out to be false I hope the former ACM sues the Italian prosecutors for wrongfully naming him to the world as corrupt.

This example is just another case tht goes to show the complete lack of proffesionalism or balance present in the Indian media, it seems that one person tells a lie or half-truth and every other outlet jumps on this and propogates these falsehoods without doing their own research or veryifying the news.

This is slanderous if nothing else. It is in fact VERY dangerous as the Indian media again and again fabricates complete stories out of the tiniest of non-issues and blows them up. They are acting against the interests of India- tomorrow these idiots could jump on the MMRCA deal and the deal would be set back months for no reason than one shoddy journo has got his facts wrong and reported on assumptions. Same could happen with any major deal, these lazy and shoddy journos could harm Indian national security.

@Abingdonboy, you are worried about Indian media but i am worried about even much larger threat in the name of Lokpal as it will have tremendous security implications. There are talks to include everyone from puen to PM under his ambit, now you very well know that Intelligence organisations are only answerable to PM of India, if even he would be under Lokpal's ambit than what will happen to our security (both internal & external) also imagine the scenario of open tenders in defence deals, the losing contenders can approach the Lokpal & can accuse of wrongdoing/corruption in the entire deal, if he finds even the slightest of possibility of the same, he can put on hold important defence deals for n no. of months or maybe even cancel the entire tender.

God Save India Than.

 

[kurup]

India says to blacklist Finmeccanica if bribery proven

(Reuters) - India will cancel a $750 million deal to buy helicopters from Finmeccanica SpA and blacklist the Italian defence group if bribery allegations are proven, Defence Minister A.K. Antony said, as political opponents tried to capitalise on the scandal.

Italian police arrested Finmeccanica's (SIFI.MI) chief executive Giuseppe Orsi on Tuesday for alleged bribes paid to secure the sale of 12 AgustaWestland executive helicopters to the Indian Air Force, when he was head of the Finmeccanica helicopter unit. Orsi's lawyer denied the allegations.

The former head of India's Air Force, S.P. "Shashi" Tyagi, and three of his cousins are among the Indians named in the arrest warrant for Orsi. All say they are innocent.

The defence minister said he had ordered the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) to investigate the purchase of the luxury helicopters destined for use by India's political leadership. He said that if the allegations are proven to be true, the company would be blacklisted and those involved punished.

"If any individual or foreigner, any firm are involved in this malpractice, nobody will be spared. We will take action against them, whatever may be the consequences," he told reporters on Wednesday. Three helicopters have already been delivered.

Coming at a time of cuts in defence procurement spending, the latest scandal could lead to additional scrutiny and delays for defence deals in the works.

"I am sure that there will be initial setback, but we will overcome that. That is not the main thing. The main thing is that we cannot allow corruption in defence deals," Antony said when asked about the impact on weapons modernisation.

The arrests in Italy came as Finmeccanica unit Alenia Aermacchi was preparing to compete for a contract to supply over 50 military transport aircraft to India in competition with European aerospace group EADS.

The military arm of EADS subsidiary Airbus told Reuters last week it would offer its C295 military transport plane, adding that manufacturers were waiting for a formal competition document from the Indian government.

India, the world's largest weapons importer, has a long history of corruption in defence deals. A multi-million dollar scandal in the 1980s over the purchase of Swedish Bofors artillery guns contributed to an electoral defeat for then-Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi, of the Congress party.

The current Congress party-led government has been buffeted by a series of corruption scandals that opposition parties plan to exploit ahead of general elections due in 2014.

India's defence ministry has put in place strict guidelines for arms deals in an effort to crack down on bribery and corruption. Last year, six arms firms including Rheinmetall Air Defence, part of Rheinmetall AG, a German automotive parts and defence group, were placed on a blacklist of firms banned from doing business in India. Rheinmettal strongly denied the allegations against it.

The opposition Bharatiya Janata Party accused Antony of dragging his feet in the latest instance and said the case was similar to the Bofors scandal, which implicated an Italian middleman close to the Gandhis. The BJP often seeks to play up the Italian origins of current Congress party leader Sonia Gandhi, Rajiv's widow.

"I see the making of another Bofors in this," BJP spokesman Ravi Shankar Prasad said. He asked why the government had not launched a police investigation earlier despite the details of the Italian prosecution case, including suspects' names, being published in media reports months ago.

"The suspicious circumstances surrounding this raises one fundamental question again - the fact that it was an Italian company, was it the grounds to go slow?"

The Indian Express newspaper had access to Italian prosecution documents last October and ran a series of stories giving detailed accounts of the alleged bribery and named several Indians said to have been involved.

The minister formally ordered the CBI to investigate the deal after Orsi's arrest on Tuesday. It was not clear why the agency had not been asked to investigate before, but Antony criticized Italy on Wednesday for not responding to requests for information about the allegations uncovered by Italian investigators.

"From day one, we have been trying to find out the truth and we conveyed that to them," he said. "So far we have not received any details."

Antony said that so far internal enquiries by the defence ministry have found no evidence against Finmeccanica in the deal. He refused to answer specific questions about the Italian allegations and said the CBI investigation would find the truth.

FORMER AIR FORCE CHIEF

The Italian arrest warrant for Orsi said three brothers who are cousins of Shashi Tyagi received kickbacks and helped twist rules in favour of AgustaWestland in the helicopter tender.

Tyagi denied all wrongdoing and described the charges as "bunkum." Speaking at his home near Delhi, he said that a requirement that the aircraft fly at 18,000 feet (6,000 metres) had been lowered to 15,000 ft, but during a government led by the opposition BJP and before his time as air chief.

He said the change was necessary because only one helicopter was able to fly that high. Tyagi admitted to having met an Italian called Carlo Gerosa who Italian authorities accuse - along with his U.S.-born partner Guido Ralph Haschk - of working as a middleman for Finmeccanica.

Tyagi, who spoke openly and extensively with media on Wednesday about the case, said he had met Gerosa at least twice, once 15 years ago and once since his retirement, but not while he ran the air force.

Gerosa and Haschk are directors of an India-based IT company called Aeromatrix, the company told Reuters. Tyagi said his cousins had links to Gerosa, but he knew nothing of any defence dealings. Tyagi said he had no knowledge of Gerosa's links to Finmeccanica.

He said the deal had been sealed three years after he retired from the air force in 2007 and denied the changes to the tender requirements had happened during his time in the job.

Antony said he could not comment on the alleged involvement of Tyagi, who still headed the air force when Antony took over the ministry in 2006.

"I have no information within my hands ... nothing is available with me. How can I say anything? At the moment, I will not say anything against any individual unless I get some reports from CBI," he said.

(Additional reporting by A. Ananthalakshmi, Ross Colvin, Satarupa Bhattacharjya and Annie Banerji; Writing by Frank Jack Daniel; Editing by Ken Wills)

India says to blacklist Finmeccanica if bribery proven | Reuters

 

[Iggy]

Helicopter purchase put on hold...

 

[axisofevil]

Please don't resort to regurgitating sensationalist BS you have seen in the desi media. President Obama could afford to scrap the deal because his existing fleet of helos was already state of the art and could be upgraded. The helos these AW-101s were replacing are dated Mi-8s and Mi-17s with serious safety concerns, these helos don't have ATAS, redundant flight controls or even a modern self defensive suite. The very highest leadership who fly in these birds ie the president and PM are at a genuine and real risk the longer they fly in these birds there is a reason the IAF sought out a replacement.


Are you seriously suggesting the PM paid bribes personally? Grow up.

Come on guy. We already know you are a diehard CONgress supporter. Nobody including myself has accused the PM of any wrong doing. Again, another cheap CONgress tactic. Listen, Z security is given to VVIPs who don;t desere such leaving the ppl with less security. Obama passed up on these heli's not just the cost but they are foreign. The US has a few companies capable of such work. On top of that, this heli deal was in 2009 right after the 2008 recession. I agree his old copters are still sufficient. As for corruption don;t be nieve. We all know how bad corruption in India is. Maybe you have been living in the UK too long and have forgotten how bad it is. Grow up!

 

[Abingdonboy]

Come on guy. We already know you are a diehard CONgress supporter. Nobody including myself has accused the PM of any wrong doing. Again, another cheap CONgress tactic. Listen, Z security is given to VVIPs who don;t desere such leaving the ppl with less security. Obama passed up on these heli's not just the cost but they are foreign. The US has a few companies capable of such work. On top of that, this heli deal was in 2009 right after the 2008 recession. I agree his old copters are still sufficient. As for corruption don;t be nieve. We all know how bad corruption in India is. Maybe you have been living in the UK too long and have forgotten how bad it is. Grow up!

Please I am no Congress so supporter- BELIVE ME. In fact I've recently come round to Modi for 2014. But this is neither here nor there.

Listen to some facts.


These AW-101 is not meant for those with Z+ cover- I couldn't agree with you more the level of protection most of these protected get is not needed and a complete waste. But these AW-101s are meant for the PM,President,Vice President , Service chiefs and the very highest cabinet minsters not just any MP with Z+ security-eff them.

As such I'm sure you'd agree those whom the AW-101 is set to serve genuinely deserve this helo. The current fleet of mi-8/17 are not set for purpose and are going to put the lives of the highest elements of the Indian govt at risk.


Coming on to your points of the Obama's decision- your assertation a are factually incorrect. Obama cancelled the deal as the $10 BN price tag (btw the Indian deal was 1/10th of this) he considered too much at a time (2008) when the US was going through economic hardship. Obama belived the exsisting fleet of SeaKings and VH-60s could be upgraded to remain relevant for a few more years. India doesn't have this luxery the existing helos used by the IAF's communication SQD are outdated and bordering in dangerous.


Then your claim the deal was scrapped because the helo that won was foreign is BS this had ZERO to do with the decision it was purely a FINANCIAL decision. Augusta Westland had a tie up with Lockhead Martin which designated the AW-101 as the VH-71 for US service.

The VH-71 is once again in the hunt to secure the contract for the next MARINE ONE.

And yes there is still corruption in India but for sure on the defence side corruption is almost non-exsistant thanks to some of the tightest and most stringent defence procurement regulations found anywhere on earth.

You are the one being naive. You are choosing to believe the ignorant sensationalist media who deals in lies and half truths not FACTS.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Prasun K. Sengupta:

What the Italian investigations have so far revealed is that there are only allegations. There is not even circumstantial evidence to indicate a money-trial leading directly to former CAS ACM S P Tyagi, hence usage of the term ‘unquantified’ in the report. Secondly, as was rightly pointed out, in 2003 the then PS to PM & NSA the late Brajesh Mishra had decided to dilute the performance parameters (especially the service ceiling) to ensure that a single-vendor situation did not develop. He was right is doing so & as a result of this there was a competitive bidding process involving the Sikorsky S-92 Superhawk & AgustaWestland AW-101. The Eurocopter EC-725 Cougar Mk2 & Kazan Helicopter Plant’s Mi-17V-5 were both disqualified from bidding since they both did not have the ‘stand-up’ cabin as specified by the ASQR. In the end, based purely on performance superiority (including the vital three-engine capability), the AW-101 won, just as it had won the competition to supply the US President’s Marine 1 transport helicopter. Therefore, from a qualitative standpoint, the AW-101 was & ramains without any other equal—period. Secondly, such VVIP helicopters are meant not just for India’s President & PM, but also for other visiting Heads of State & Heads of Govt whenever they have to travel internally within India. The three armed services chiefs too are entitled to use them depending on the seriousness of their requirements. Consequently, a minimum of 12 such helicopters are required. Therefore, for former MPs like Manvendra Singh to say (on TV earlier tonight) that a ‘poor’ country ought to go for only three such helicopters is downright mischievous, ill-conceived, & moronic!!!
Now, coming to the bare-bones of this case, there’s no cover-up going on in India because the plot was hatched & carried out in Italy & the principal monetary beneficiaries are also based in Italy. Does one mean to say that in return for allegedly favouring the AW-101 for acquisition, the Indian parties will receive only 21 million Euros, while the Italian political parties will receive slush funds worth more than 30 million Euros? What kind of logic is that? Anyone who thinks along such lines, especially in India, can justifiably be called a MORON. In conclusion, it is an open-and-shut money laundering case: the Italians used the AW-101 contract to generate slush funds for political purposes in Italy & there was no hanky-panky involved in the AW-101’s selection process by anyone in India. But the ‘desi’ mass-media of India will as usual run around like headless chicken. After all, what else can one expect from the INDIAN EXPRESS whose Editor last April had claimed that the Arjun MBT’s cannon was supplied by Rheinmetall & earlier tonight on NDTV made yet another outrageous claim by stating that even after 27 years of R & D the Arjun MBT is yet to enter service!!! If I were to swing such a major deal in anyone’s favour & if I knew what quantum of the contract value is to be paid as commission, I certainly would not be satisfied with a part-payment of just 100,000 or even 500,000 Euros….that’s common sense, which regrettably continues to elude most of the gullible Indians who are basing their conclusions on the ‘desi’ mass-media’s so-called revelations.

 

[subincb]

I guess if Finmeccanica is blacklisted it would affect naval Helicopter tender as well. MBDA, selex galilio, oto melara etc etc and many more could as well be affected.

 

[cloud_9]

'Software deal’ used as front for helicopter bribes

NEW DELHI: AgustaWestland, the British helicopter manufacturer, took cover behind India's software exports to route funds it allegedly paid as kickbacks in the Rs, 3,546 croreVVIP chopper deal.

The British company, a subsidiary of Italian defence and aerospace firm Finmeccanica, routed up to 20 million euro (around Rs 144 crore) in the deal signed in 2010 via Tunisia. The remittances were shown as payments for software developed in India, perhaps because the company reckoned that transfers would not attract suspicion, given the large volume of exports. Software exports are expected to cross $75 billion this year.

The payments started sometime in 2007, or earlier, and went on until last year, when investigators began trailing the kickbacks. Of these payments, at least 100,000 euros was paid in cash to the three Tyagi brothers -- Juli, Docsa and Sandeep -- cousins of former IAF chief SP Tyagi when he was in office.

According to the documents filed in an Italian court, AgustaWestland CEO Bruno Spagnoli and Guido Ralph Haschke, one of the key middlemen and a former director of real estate firm Emaar MGF, signed a consulting contract between the UK-based helicopter company and a firm called 'Gordian Services Sari' worth 400,000 euro. Of this, 100,000 euro was paid to the Tyagi brothers in cash.

Later, engineering contracts were signed involving IDS Tunisia and IDS India - two firms that figure prominently in the probe -- to pay "sums of money in order to pay public officials" in India, the documents show. In 2007, 640,000 euro was paid into IDS India "using invoices issued by IDS India, for non-existent operations," say the court documents.

In 2008, this amount was 1.3 million euro. In the same year, there may have been another payment of 977,263 euro. In the declarations for 2009, there is an entry of 508,000 euro payment to IDS India. In 2011, a payment of almost 6.4 million euro was detected.

The documents establish that the average monthly payment being routed into India was 510,000 euro without any taxes.

According to these documents, the AgustaWestland CEO Spagnoli also corresponded with Michel Christian, a UK-based middleman with deep political connections in India, for a payment of 30 million euro "to support the corrupt activities aimed at the acquisition of the contract". Christian is the owner of Global Service Trade Commerce, headquartered in London and Global Service FZE based in Dubai.

The report accuses the Tyagi brothers of influencing their cousin - IAF chief Tyagi -- for modifying the tender in favour of AgustaWestland, reducing the operating height from 18,000 feet to 15,000 feet and introducing a comparative flight with an engine failure. AgustaWestland's three-engine helicopter benefited from this particular trial procedure, the court filings show.

The documents also detail several meetings attended by representatives of the European firm with Tyagi brothers and the former air chief. One of them also talks about a marriage they attended, and how at least one of the cousins would touch the feet of the former air chief to show him respect.

 

[JanjaWeed]

VVIP chopper scam: India moves to cancel AgustaWestland deal | NDTV.com

Laughable move... nothing but fire fighting. What would happen to the money they already paid & amount of time they spent in putting this deal together? What will they do with the three helis that we already have? Will they return it back? If not... once the deal is cancelled, how will they get the parts for them?

Our officials are acting in such a amateurish way, just blows my mind away. Pathetic, to say the least...

 

[Abingdonboy]

VVIP chopper scam: India moves to cancel AgustaWestland deal | NDTV.com

Laughable move... nothing but fire fighting. What would happen to the money they already paid & amount of time they spent in putting this deal together? What will they do with the three helis that we already have? Will they return it back? If not... once the deal is cancelled, how will they get the parts for them?

Our officials are acting in such a amateurish way, just blows my mind away. Pathetic, to say the least...

Actually in all deals India signs there is an "integrity clause" that can be invoked for exactly this situation. So wrt funds that have already been paid (~40% of the total contract right now IIRC) will quite easily be retrieved. By the same measure the delivered helos can be returned to AW and this would be the most sensible decision as keeping only 3 is utterly pointless and operationally ineffective.

And I agree it is a stupid decision especially when the probes on by the the Italians and now Indian agencies, have not come back wih a definitive verdict one way or another. This decision is purely so that Antony keeps his "clean" image the decsionn wrt the 197 RSH was taken on the same lines. Antony doesn't give a ***** if people get killed for his selfish actions.

If/when the CBI or Italians come back with a clean verdict for the deal wrt the Indian side then Antony will be in for a whole world of hurt. Not waiting is an utter joke- he is just telling the world that the GoI doesn't care for due process.

An utter selfish idiot.