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India Hands Over US$20 Million Flood Aid To Pakistan

I guess context is something difficult to grasp and yes I am a snooty bastard to you.

Dude, I have not carried any personal attacks on you, time and again you make it personal. No, I do not care what his history is, he never made explicit comments and has right to be judged by his current actions not past mistakes. (in this case the current post).

Please take your Rose glasses out.
 
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I haven't seen a post like that in ages, and you'll be hard pressed to find my participation in any thread like that.



I guess context is something difficult to grasp and yes I am a snooty bastard to you.



I know that and I appreciate your effort at moderating but I am commenting on this article and this author with respect to his other posts. He is posting this to show India's largess and thus superiority to a foe. There is a reason why he got temp-banned/suspended.




Again if you don't understand context, I can't help you.

he is not the author of the article he just posted it...and yes i do understand the context of which u r talking..but the post was an unedited news article of Malaysian news...where in the context does the personal views of the poster fit in the article to determine his intensions:sniper:
 
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Pls keep it civil guys, if you want to thrash the sh** out of each other there are "other" forums

no Pakistanis here appreciating this? strange!

anyways. Its a good gesture and these would help improve the relationships provided the Pakistani people respond in the right spirit and more importantly the Indian people do not jump over the bush and berate the "aid".

IMHO, I seriously doubt India has acted on this matter on her own initiative. $ 20 mill is too much given the mutual history. U.S has a knack for seeing moments of great crisis as moments of great opportunity. Remember 1973 war and camp david accords.
 
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We are letting our farmers kill themselves when 80% of India is earning half dollar a day, so how the hell can we afford to give aid to such ungrateful people ? The last time we gave them aid they asked us to route through UN. Now we gave it through UN, and still I dont see a single sign of appreciation !

India should have instead given that aid to Afghanistan or Bangladesh who at least appreciate it.
 
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Everybody go to youtube, and see how indians really feel about this money,which they chose to give (Pakistanis didn't begg). i don't understand why indians just can't be straight foward and honest, instead of beahving like rats?
 
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We are letting our farmers kill themselves when 80% of India is earning half dollar a day, so how the hell can we afford to give aid to such ungrateful people ? The last time we gave them aid they asked us to route through UN. Now we gave it through UN, and still I dont see a single sign of appreciation !

India should have instead given that aid to Afghanistan or Bangladesh who at least appreciate it.


I hate this crappy government for taking money from indians/rats
 
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I hate this crappy government for taking money from indians/rats

aid is aid, no matter where it's from, we should thank them for it!

Plz do not compare HUMANS to rats, it's people like you who keep the two countries from peace :hitwall:
 
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We are letting our farmers kill themselves when 80% of India is earning half dollar a day, so how the hell can we afford to give aid to such ungrateful people ? The last time we gave them aid they asked us to route through UN. Now we gave it through UN, and still I dont see a single sign of appreciation !

India should have instead given that aid to Afghanistan or Bangladesh who at least appreciate it.

Plz tell your govt to keep the money and use it else where, because we did not ask for it but were offered it....
 
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No personal attacks, and accusations of prejudice please.

Cardsharp is probably one of the least prejudiced people on this board.


I disagree, you are defending your friend, I respect that. But if you read his posts in this thread.. he was hiding his prejudice in the sweet word "Context".



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This is derailing the thread way too much..
 
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No personal attacks, and accusations of prejudice please.

Cardsharp is probably one of the least prejudiced people on this board.

Thanks but this is far from the consensus view, I'm afraid. I don't have a monopoly on truth, (my view is just my own) but I do wish people can at least make an effort to elevate the level of discussion to beyond petty point score (it's dull stuff).
 
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We are letting our farmers kill themselves when 80% of India is earning half dollar a day, so how the hell can we afford to give aid to such ungrateful people ? The last time we gave them aid they asked us to route through UN. Now we gave it through UN, and still I dont see a single sign of appreciation !

India should have instead given that aid to Afghanistan or Bangladesh who at least appreciate it.

By the same token one could agrue that $25 million to people in need is better spent then filiing the pockets of corrupt politians.

Moreover, rather than calling aid, it should be better called a duty towards fellow human beings. God forbid but if and when such a clamity occurs in India, would you expect other fellow human beings to help you and your kids?

Karmanye Vadhikaraste Ma Phaleshu Kadachana,
Ma Karma Phala Hetur Bhurmatey Sangostva Akarmani

"You have a right to perform your prescribed action,but you are not entitled to the fruits of your action.
Never consider yourself the cause of the results your activities,and never be associated to not doing your duty."



It is our duty to help people suffering from floods in Pakistan. Not everyone in Pakistan is Ajmal Kasab.

My humble request to the mods - Please close this thread.
 
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I'm not really type of people who tries to score cheap point over aid which is given to homeless people. Yes we are not giving aid to Pakistan Govt but to UN which will be used to relocate flood victims. But I have two concerns --

1. According to Dawn and International reputed newspapers, rich, elite Pakistanis don't pay tax. Even during this testing time they are supposedly trying with all their influence to evade paying tax. Even according to Dawn, only 2% of Pakistan's population pay tax. :O

While, it's pakistan's internal problem, but by providing aid, in one way or another, we are helping those feudal elites to stay rich.

2. General Pakistani psyche, which suffers from deep Indiphobia(which is true for general Indian population as well), will only see this aid as another Indian ploy to denigrate them, some Indians' attempt of scoring points over this issue doesn't help either. Here, I'm not talking about people who will be benefited from this aid, but people who have access to Internet, and getting mad on their govt for giving their Indians peers a chance to own then in Internet forums, by accepting Indian aid. Unfortunately, the later kind of people only decide Pakistan's policy towards India.
 
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I'm not really type of people who tries to score cheap point over aid which is given to homeless people. Yes we are not giving aid to Pakistan Govt but to UN which will be used to relocate flood victims. But I have two concerns --

1. According to Dawn and International reputed newspapers, rich, elite Pakistanis don't pay tax. Even during this testing time they are supposedly trying with all their influence to evade paying tax. Even according to Dawn, only 2% of Pakistan's population pay tax. :O

While, it's pakistan's internal problem, but providing aid, in one way or another, we are helping those feudal elites to stay rich.

2. General Pakistani psyche, which suffers from deep Indiphobia(which is true for general Indian population as well), will only see this aid as another Indian way to denigrate them, some Indians' attempt of scoring points over this issue doesn't help either. Here, I'm not talking about people who will be benefited from this aid, but people who have access to Internet, and getting mad on their govt for giving their Indians peers a chance to own then in Internet forums, by accepting Indian aid. Unfortunately, the later kind of people only decide Pakistan's policy towards India.

Donors want Pakistan to tax rich to pay for floods - Yahoo! Finance

Sebastian Abbot, Associated Press Writer, On Friday September 17, 2010, 9:11 pm EDT

KARACHI, Pakistan (AP) -- Pakistan's plea for billions of dollars to recover from this summer's floods has sparked pressure on the country to reform a tax system that collects very little money, even from the rich.

The country's biggest donor, the United States, has issued one of the strongest warnings, saying the world will only be able to fund a quarter of the tens of billions of dollars it will take to rebuild -- and it will be difficult to get American taxpayers to help if Pakistanis aren't footing their share of the bill.

But many economists fear the threats are hollow and the U.S. and others will once again bail out Pakistan without insisting on necessary economic reforms because the nuclear-armed country is so important in the war against al-Qaida and the Taliban.

"Pakistan can say, 'If you don't help us, the economy crumbles, the Taliban takes over and there goes your war on terror,'" said Akbar Zaidi, an economist who recently published a report on Pakistan's tax system for the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. "They don't want to alienate the government, so they will let them off the hook."

Despite years of international pressure, Pakistan has one of the lowest effective tax rates in the world, equal to about 9 percent of the value of the country's economy, according to the Carnegie report. In contrast, the U.S. equivalent is more than three times as high at about 28 percent.

One of the reasons Pakistan's rate is so low is because many people avoid paying taxes. Fewer than 2 percent of the country's 175 million citizens pay any income tax, according to the report.

Also, some sectors of the economy like agriculture -- a major money maker for the elite -- are totally exempt from tax, and the rich have pushed to keep it that way.

"A small elite comprised of the military, land owners, and the rising urban upper and middle classes, is loath to give up any of its wealth (some of which is illegally accumulated)," said the report.

Ishrat Hussain, former head of the Pakistan central bank, estimated that better enforcement of current tax policies and the elimination of key exemptions should produce an effective tax rate of 15 percent -- generating nearly $10 billion in additional revenue per year.

That money would go a long way toward repairing devastation from the floods, which affected more than 18 million people and damaged and destroyed over 1.8 million homes. It would also provide the money necessary to begin fixing Pakistan's crumbling school system and health infrastructure.

"This is a time we have to tell people that we have to all pitch in and mobilize our own resources," said Hussain. "Why should the international community come to your rescue if you are not doing your part of the bargain?"

He said donors should keep up the pressure on Pakistan, but advised against directly linking reconstruction money to tax reform, predicting the move could backfire in a country where animosity toward the West, and the U.S. in particular, is extremely high.

"It wouldn't be a very smart move because people here would consider this as an intrusion on their sovereignty, and the debate would then be muddied," said Hussain.

The U.S. and other countries have donated around $1 billion for emergency relief, and international financial institutions have provided about $2.5 billion in emergency loans. Donors are scheduled to meet in New York this weekend to discuss raising additional aid.

Washington has promised more money for reconstruction, but the U.S. special envoy to Pakistan, Richard Holbrooke, warned during a visit to the country this week that the international community could only fund about 25 percent of the bill. He said the U.S. would not condition reconstruction money on tax reform, but cautioned that American generosity has its limits.

"I don't want to withhold money they need, but I think we have to be clear that the Congress is going to be reluctant to give money if the money is filling in a gap because people are not paying taxes," he said.

Earlier this month, the International Monetary Fund held back more than $1 billion of funding because Pakistan had not met a number of economic criteria, including reforming its tax system. The money is part of a multibillion loan Pakistan took out in 2008 to stabilize its economy.

It's unclear if the IMF's tough stance will last. The organization has provided funding to Pakistan in the past when it didn't meet its loan criteria -- a move that some Pakistani economists believe was driven by international pressure because of Pakistan's strategic importance.

Pakistan had promised the IMF it would introduce a new tax scheme in July -- moving from a general sales tax to a value added tax -- but ended up delaying it until the beginning of October because of disagreements between the central government and the provinces, especially Sindh province.

Kaiser Bengali, a senior adviser to the Sindh chief minister who is responsible for negotiating the tax deal with Islamabad, said it seems unlikely that the government will be able to reconcile its differences with the province by the revised deadline.

"I wouldn't do things simply because the donors are asking me to do it," said Bengali.

If Pakistan does not reform its tax system and the donors fail to bail the country out, it is unclear how the nation would come up with the money necessary for reconstruction. The government has proposed a one-time tax on urban property and agricultural land not affected by the floods, but it is uncertain whether it will be implemented and how much money it would produce.

Hussain, the former central bank chief, said that even if the one-time tax was implemented, he was worried the elite would simply use their influence to avoid paying anything as they have done in the past.

"The system has given power to the thieves to monitor themselves," he said.

Associated Press Writers Ashraf Khan in Karachi and Asif Shahzad in Islamabad contributed to this report.
 
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