India backs palestinian bid for UN membership

[F-16_Falcon]

Indian govt is betraying you by supporting palestine. they just want to keep their muslim vote bank happy.

 

[AkhandIndia]

Indian govt is betraying you by supporting palestine. they just want to keep their muslim vote bank happy.

we know abt this

 

[F-16_Falcon]

we know abt this

the Indian govt also betraying Israel but you cannot do anything. I will not be surprised if Israel left you after this.

 

[Bhairava]

Huh? Here's a link detailing all aerial recce/photo reconnaissance sorties flown by the IAF during Kargil.The list includes Mi-17,Canberra,,Jaguars,MiG-25R etc.

Kargil - Daily Progress Of Op Safedsagar - Vayu Sena

And where does it say those recce flights were not flying avionics retrofitted with Israeli help. Add these along with the UAVs and the Ofeq sat feeds.

All Arab governments pledged support for Kargil? Not going to get into that but try living along those lines.

Saudia Kuwait pleded free oil and they are some of the richest and most influential Arab League members. BTW whats up with semantics ? The fact is Arabs sided with Pak while Israel helped Inia. As simple as that.

The United States sent out a carrier battle group in support of Pakistan in 1971 and Sri lanka helped them out as well,does it mean we should never diplomatically engage with them as well?

Now tell me who's living in the past?

Yeah the same US defied the whole world and gave us the nuke deal. I'm fine with the "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" formula of US. I'm only uncomfortable with the one sided affection people display for the Arab world without they giving us anything in response except repeated inteference in Kashmir, funding the Kashmiri terrorists, helping Pak in all the wars with us etc.

Since you are only looking at foreign policy matter objectively,here's what India possibly stands to lose;

Firstly your assumption that the entire Islamic world's foreign policy is based on this single issue is ridiculous and not real. Anyway let me try to answer your assertions.

Oil and support in the UN for Kashmir from Iran

The Mullahs in Iran desperately need the oil money and this issue is not going to stop them from sending India oil.Iran's support for Kashmir, I dont think so especially when we have the leverage of the IAEA support to Iran's nuke program.

Possible deadlock for the potentially immense Indo-Turkey ties

Potentially immense...based on what ? And in which field ?

Indian workers in the Arab world to could be adversely affected

Another myth. I have been to the Gulf and I have seen first hand how these Arabs treat the Palestinians as third class people/ So they giving up their comforts for the sake of Palestinians..Far cry.

And its not like they are treating the Indians any better now !.

Internationalization of the Kasmir dispute with the Arab world putting their weight behind Pakistan

They need not do it now. Their present position is that aspirations of the Kashmiri people should be met. Is that not against the Indian position of Kashmir being an integral part of India ? Except Iraq under Saddam no godamn Arab supported/supports India on Kashmir.

Isolation in the international arena

Are you joking ? How many countries are there in the world and how many are Arab countries and among them how many have independent foreign policy (not being a US puppet) ? International isolation ? LOL...Even if they want they cant isolate one fifth of humanity for an issue they dont give two hoots about. Its all rhetoric.

For the Gulf Arabs Iran is a far greater threat than Israel.

 

[harpoon]

It's all a put-on. Israel was told in advance about the Indian vote. It's to show the Muslim world that we are fighting for their cause. It always happens this way, so Israel knows it's just posturing for the public, nothing more!

The relationship between India and Israel is deeper than the oceans and higher than the mountains! (Now where the heck did I hear this line before??!! )

 

[DarK-LorD]

Israel knows that We will always vote for Palestine in UN GA.Wikileaks revealed that UPA is not very open only publicly in Indo-Israel relationship because of Muslim votes.But the relationship is at a very good stage.

 

[Observer7]

India is incapable to become permanent member (with veto power) in SC. If India have veto power wat is use of it? no influence in other country except Nepal and Bhutan. India is fearful to say anything against anyone in world arena. All those 5 members in SC are potent aggressor that is basic quality to become SC member and terrorists activities in those countries are very less or nil and they took severe action against them without bothering others. We used say v will strong action against terrorist but nothing happening yet . The inclusion of India in SC is nothing but weakening the SC ,no use of India. IMO India shouldn't ask SC membership now better try to make our self best to deserve that position.

Truly said and possibility India could weaken the SC due to non alignment policy and a lack of clear vision. But India wants to get into SC due to counter China. And this is the requirement of US and other countries too. As they are weakening gradually and China is going to become the new world super power. Its in the interest of US to strengthen India and to make stand India against China. China is a Socialistic country with secretive military policy. Its already having strained relation with many of its neighbors. Its also having an aggressive expansion policy. And very much chances of arm twisting of its neighbors for its personal policy. Now also it is the largest consumer of resources of the world. And in coming years its appetite is going to increase. In order to become the super power it is aggressively and some times covertly consuming the world resources in a faster manner. And this in turn leads to unbalance growth of development around the world. Also due to its obsessive compulsion to become the super power it could damage or destroy other countries economy. Specially India. As India is having the potential to give China a serious competition in economic front.

 

[cyphercide]

Indian govt is betraying you by supporting palestine. they just want to keep their muslim vote bank happy.

Umm no,This is the stand we had for quite a while.Look into it.

 

[Bhairava]

Sure.But looking at it objectively,cutting Tibet loose and cracking down on their protestors will jump-start Sino-India ties.A big gain indeed,wouldn't you concede? Why not ignore Tibet and warm up with China eh.To hell with Foward Policy,we want gains!!!

In a world with limited resources and more people two of the largest nations with a bad blood can never be friends. India and China at best will be strategic rivals and the Tibet issue is a useful nuisance factor to rile up the Chinese whenever they get too cocky.

Heard about SFF - a commando force comprising almost entirely of Tibetans under the command of RAW ?

Gaddhafi looked like the winning horse going up against NATO? I sure hope you don't bet money on your predictions! you would be the first one to think that Gaddhafi would've gotten out the mess as the victor

He sure did with the NATO bungling without the active leadership of US and the rebels getting bottled up in Be Ghazi and attacked on all sides by the loyalist forces of Gaddaffi. The war was getting no where with Gadaffi fighters giving stiff resistance and even now they are not fully defeated. Yes, I for one thought that without US the chances of NATO was not so good.

OF course not,there is no compulsion to do it.Many UN members abstain from sending their own forces to hostile foreign nations,nobody breathes down their neck for doing the same.

Do you know on UN missions the pay is higher than in regular duty ? Many Indian Army soldiers voluntarily go for that duty for the sake of the pay. And yes sending in forces under UN auspices do gives us a soft power over the nation in which we are participating and this furthers our foreign policy. Remember there are no free lunches.

It was Mark Twain that said "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics". However,I would be happy to look over the statistics if you could also specify the sample population and regions sampled.

Strawman. You said everyone supports Palestine and I proved you wrong. Thats to it.

 

[harpoon]

Israel knows that We will always vote for Palestine in UN GA.Wikileaks revealed that UPA is not very open only publicly in Indo-Israel relationship because of Muslim votes.But the relationship is at a very good stage.

I remember when UPA-1 came to power Communists, who were supporting them at that time, said that they will cut Indo-Israel relations. Then nothing happened.

 

[Observer7]

the Indian govt also betraying Israel but you cannot do anything. I will not be surprised if Israel left you after this.

Israel wont leave India due to this small issue. As Israel know very well India's stand. GoI might have informed them before going for to support for this proposal. This is all Politics. Even in the case of Iran too India voted against Iran for its nuclear development. But that doesn't mean Iran stopped supplying Oil to India. India actually want to show to the world that it stands for the Right than just siding with any to have any benefits. This is the foreign policy of India. And there is a hidden agenda behind this. One it will give an impression in the world to many countries (like in Africa etc) that India stand for the right cause and this will help India to get support for its Permanent membership for UN. And African and other weak nations will think that India will be speaking for their causes. Second it will also please Islamic nations which in turn give her a continuous flow of oil.
Also this wont have any affect on Israel India relation cause this matter is going form past 60 years in the UN with no progress.

 

[DarK-LorD]

I remember when UPA-1 came to power Communists, who were supporting them at that time, said that they will cut Indo-Israel relations. Then nothing happened.

CPM also does it for Votebanks,Wikibombs says that though CPM is against US investment in public,senior members of the party clearly told US diplomats that they support US investment.

 

[Bhairava]

I remember when UPA-1 came to power Communists, who were supporting them at that time, said that they will cut Indo-Israel relations. Then nothing happened.

Thank god for that.

Those basterds screwed our relationship with Nepal by supporting the Maoists against the Royalists and had tried to harm India-Israel relations too.

What better to expect from Chinese bootlickers ?

 

[cyphercide]

And where does it say those recce flights were not flying avionics retrofitted with Israeli help. Add these along with the UAVs and the Ofeq sat feeds.



Saudia Kuwait pleded free oil and they are some of the richest and most influential Arab League members. BTW whats up with semantics ? The fact is Arabs sided with Pak while Israel helped Inia. As simple as that.



Yeah the same US defied the whole world and gave us the nuke deal. I'm fine with the "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" formula of US. I'm only uncomfortable with the one sided affection people display for the Arab world without they giving us anything in response except repeated inteference in Kashmir, funding the Kashmiri terrorists, helping Pak in all the wars with us etc.





Firstly your assumption that the entire Islamic world's foreign policy is based on this single issue is ridiculous and not real. Anyway let me try to answer your assertions.



The Mullahs in Iran desperately need the oil money and this issue is not going to stop them from sending India oil.Iran's support for Kashmir, I dont think so especially when we have the leverage of the IAEA support to Iran's nuke program.



Potentially immense...based on what ? And in which field ?



Another myth. I have been to the Gulf and I have seen first hand how these Arabs treat the Palestinians as third class people/ So they giving up their comforts for the sake of Palestinians..Far cry.

And its not like they are treating the Indians any better now !.



They need not do it now. Their present position is that aspirations of the Kashmiri people should be met. Is that not against the Indian position of Kashmir being an integral part of India ? Except Iraq under Saddam no godamn Arab supported/supports India on Kashmir.



Are you joking ? How many countries are there in the world and how many are Arab countries and among them how many have independent foreign policy (not being a US puppet) ? International isolation ? LOL...Even if they want they cant isolate one fifth of humanity for an issue they dont give two hoots about. Its all rhetoric.

For the Gulf Arabs Iran is a far greater threat than Israel.

Semantics? Just trying to connect the dots as you were.I was hinting that your assumption that Israel might take offense to a position that we have had for years is ridiculous.I,for one, don't certainly hold the view that we need to agree with Israel on every single thing,Israel doesn't expect it too.The United States understands as well.Heck,even China realizes the sheer profitability of adopting such a stand.What's your dilemma about it?You do realize Israelis aren't Indians right?

Let's talk about the Indo-US deal when it takes off alright.The Americans thought they could make a quick buck,India thinks otherwise.

With Iran,If you may recall the Mullah himself brought up the Kashmir issue during his address to the Iranian people.The oil payment issue is an another wedge.Ties are on it's lowest point ever with Iran.I wouldn't want to further antagonize it.Our government gets the gist too.

Many Arab nations quietly ignore the Kashmir issue and do business with us.Why unnecessarily bring it back onto the limelight?

Isolation from the Arab world isn't really an outlandish concept.Any Israeli or even a foreigner who visits Israel isn't allowed into Arab nations.They could just as well extend that blanket ban over to Indian citizens as well.The benefits of Arabia by far outweigh anything Israel has to offer.

See,I get it that you would want to beat your chest on the issue but don't connect our government into it as well. We seek friendship with all and not to enroll as a blind follower of any nation.We have friendly relations with and also pertinent issues that we fight over with the United States,Russia,UK....you name it.Israel is no different.

 

[Bhairava]

Semantics? Just trying to connect the dots as you were.I was hinting that your assumption that Israel might take offense to a position that we have had for years is ridiculous.I,for one, don't certainly hold the view that we need to agree with Israel on every single thing,Israel doesn't expect it too.The United States understands as well.Heck,even China realizes the sheer profitability of adopting such a stand.What's your dilemma about it?You do realize Israelis aren't Indians right?

When you can assume that the Arab world can take offence and punish us with all sorts of things ranging from Kashmir to International isolation what is wrong in me thinking that Israel would be offended ,privately if not publicly, at this move ? Heck if I were Israel I would be pissed off wit this Govt for voting against me when I provided you all the hi-tech weapons, crucial help during wars and unstinting support on Kashmir.

Let's talk about the Indo-US deal when it takes off alright.The Americans thought they could make a quick buck,India thinks otherwise.

Quick bucks come second. They wanted a strategic partner in India, shring the same ideals and given the distrust in India regarding US they had to do something to convince us and hey presto you have the nuke deal.

With Iran,If you may recall the Mullah himself brought up the Kashmir issue during his address to the Iranian people.The oil payment issue is an another wedge.Ties are on it's lowest point ever with Iran.I wouldn't want to further antagonize it.Our government gets the gist too.

Did you know that the Govt of Iran clarified that Khomeini was misquoted and it was a result of wrong transalation from Farsi to English ? The oil payment issue has been settled.

Many Arab nations quietly ignore the Kashmir issue and do business with us.Why unnecessarily bring it back onto the limelight?

What can they do even if they bring it into the limelight ? What international influence they have ? No Veto-wilding state and almost all of them are US puppets one way or the other. They are just a bunch of spineless states who have no coherent policy. And Its not as if they are going to invade us tomorrow and liberate Kashmir. In reality they can do pretty much nothing on Kashmir, even if they wanted to. Have some belief in your Armed forces.

Isolation from the Arab world isn't really an outlandish concept.Any Israeli or even a foreigner who visits Israel isn't allowed into Arab nations.They could just as wellextend that blanket ban over to Indian citizens as well.

LOL who told you this ? The personal Banking deputy chief in XXXX while I was in Kuwait was an Israeli.

The benefits of Arabia by far outweigh anything Israel has to offer.

Can you enlist some of those vast benefits ? Do the technology for Phalcons, Radars, hitech Irrigations, Avionics, Missiles etc come under those vast benefits ?

The Arab world has nothing to offer except oil and that too will not stop unless you invade them directly, let alone Palestine.

See,I get it that you would want to beat your chest on the issue but don't connect our government into it as well. We seek friendship with all and not to enroll as a blind follower of any nation.We have friendly relations with and also pertinent issues that we fight over with the United States,Russia,UK....you name it.Israel is no different.

If you fight with Israel because they worked against your national interest please be my guest. Infact I would also oppose them in that case. But opposing them for the sake of a mirage (yes its a mirage because until Israel and US themselves agree Palestine is not happening) - Palestine - is one of the dumbest ideas around.

So my freind, its not me who is chest thumping rather you who is lost in the heydays of the NAM and all those assorted BSand refusing to come to terms with the chnaged world.