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India And The Homemade Headache

Lankan Ranger

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India And The Homemade Headache

The Indian Army was recently compelled to conduct a field test between the domestically designed (and largely rejected) Arjun tank, and the Russian T-90 (now considered the army's primary tank). Fourteen of each tank were used, and the results were classified. But journalists had no trouble getting unofficial reports that the Arjun managed to best the T-90 in tests of mobility, endurance and gunnery.

This was unusual because, until now, the Arjun was considered an expensive and embarrassing failure. Development of the Arjun began in the 1980s, and until four years ago, the army had received only five of them, for evaluation purposes. The evaluation did not go well. Originally, the Arjun was to have replaced thousands of Russian tanks, but after so many delays, the army only reluctantly accepted 128 Arjuns (equipping the 140th Armored Brigade).

If the new test reports are to be believed, there will be renewed pressure on the army to buy more Arjuns. This pits the Defense Ministry weapons development and procurement bureaucrats against the generals.

All this assumes that the Arjun has really fixed all the problems it was having with its electronics. In this case, it was the fire control system. But Arjun has also had problems with its engine, and that fact that its size and weight prevents it from being used with current tank transporters.

Meanwhile, last year, an Indian factory delivered the first ten (of a thousand) T-90 tanks to the Indian Army. The Russian designed armored vehicles are being built in India under license. Many of the components are Indian made, and some of the electronics are imported from Western suppliers. The Indian made T-90s cost about $3 million each. India has already bought 700 Russian made T-90 tanks, at a cost of $3.5 million each.

Four years ago, India adopted the Russian T-90 as its new main battle tank. By 2020, India will have 2,000 upgraded T-72s, over 1,500 T-90s, and few hundred other tanks (including a few Arjuns). This will be the most powerful armored force in Eurasia, unless China moves ahead with upgrades to its tank force. The border between China and India is high in the Himalayan mountains, which is not good tank country. India's tank force is mainly for use against Pakistan.

The T-90 is a highly evolved T-72. Originally, the T-90 was done as a fall-back design. The T-80 was supposed to be the successor to the T-72. But like the T-62 and T-64 before it, the T-80 didn't quite work out as planned. So the T-72, with a much improved turret and all manner of gadgets, was trotted out as the T-90. Weighting 47 tons, it's 23 feet long, 11 feet wide and 7.5 feet high. Same package, better contents. And with well trained crews, it can be deadly. The Arjun is a larger vehicle (59 tons, 34.9 feet long and 12.7 feet wide).

Armor: India And The Homemade Headache
 
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India And The Homemade Headache

The Indian Army was recently compelled to conduct a field test between the domestically designed (and largely rejected) Arjun tank, and the Russian T-90 (now considered the army's primary tank). Fourteen of each tank were used, and the results were classified. But journalists had no trouble getting unofficial reports that the Arjun managed to best the T-90 in tests of mobility, endurance and gunnery.

This was unusual because, until now, the Arjun was considered an expensive and embarrassing failure. Development of the Arjun began in the 1980s, and until four years ago, the army had received only five of them, for evaluation purposes. The evaluation did not go well. Originally, the Arjun was to have replaced thousands of Russian tanks, but after so many delays, the army only reluctantly accepted 128 Arjuns (equipping the 140th Armored Brigade).

If the new test reports are to be believed, there will be renewed pressure on the army to buy more Arjuns. This pits the Defense Ministry weapons development and procurement bureaucrats against the generals.

All this assumes that the Arjun has really fixed all the problems it was having with its electronics. In this case, it was the fire control system. But Arjun has also had problems with its engine, and that fact that its size and weight prevents it from being used with current tank transporters.

Meanwhile, last year, an Indian factory delivered the first ten (of a thousand) T-90 tanks to the Indian Army. The Russian designed armored vehicles are being built in India under license. Many of the components are Indian made, and some of the electronics are imported from Western suppliers. The Indian made T-90s cost about $3 million each. India has already bought 700 Russian made T-90 tanks, at a cost of $3.5 million each.

Four years ago, India adopted the Russian T-90 as its new main battle tank. By 2020, India will have 2,000 upgraded T-72s, over 1,500 T-90s, and few hundred other tanks (including a few Arjuns). This will be the most powerful armored force in Eurasia, unless China moves ahead with upgrades to its tank force. The border between China and India is high in the Himalayan mountains, which is not good tank country. India's tank force is mainly for use against Pakistan.

The T-90 is a highly evolved T-72. Originally, the T-90 was done as a fall-back design. The T-80 was supposed to be the successor to the T-72. But like the T-62 and T-64 before it, the T-80 didn't quite work out as planned. So the T-72, with a much improved turret and all manner of gadgets, was trotted out as the T-90. Weighting 47 tons, it's 23 feet long, 11 feet wide and 7.5 feet high. Same package, better contents. And with well trained crews, it can be deadly. The Arjun is a larger vehicle (59 tons, 34.9 feet long and 12.7 feet wide).

Armor: India And The Homemade Headache

This is all just speculation - but anyhow those journos were not just regular journos but guys who are dedicated Defence Journalists.

They are the likes who can distinguish between and F-16 Block 30/40 from a F-16 Block 52 or F-16 block 60.

Besides given they are dedicated defence guys they have insider information, so by all means I would like to believe them over the person who wrote this.

Further, we all will know if it is a success or a failure as the IA won't place more orders if it is a failure!
 
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India And The Homemade Headache

The Indian Army was recently compelled to conduct a field test between the domestically designed (and largely rejected) Arjun tank, and the Russian T-90 (now considered the army's primary tank). Fourteen of each tank were used, and the results were classified. But journalists had no trouble getting unofficial reports that the Arjun managed to best the T-90 in tests of mobility, endurance and gunnery.
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The T-90 is a highly evolved T-72. Originally, the T-90 was done as a fall-back design. The T-80 was supposed to be the successor to the T-72. But like the T-62 and T-64 before it, the T-80 didn't quite work out as planned. So the T-72, with a much improved turret and all manner of gadgets, was trotted out as the T-90. Weighting 47 tons, it's 23 feet long, 11 feet wide and 7.5 feet high. Same package, better contents. And with well trained crews, it can be deadly. The Arjun is a larger vehicle (59 tons, 34.9 feet long and 12.7 feet wide).

Armor: India And The Homemade Headache

The highlighted red part was interesting specially when Pakistan is using T-80 Tanks..can any one across the border clarify this..is it true??
 
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Whats the difference between an armoured vehicle and a tank? Can you provide basic stats as to the fuel consumption of a standard tank, capabilities.

Whats the role of a tank force in modern warfare?
 
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I think this was discussed a lot in other threads............. The information as it is classified how do u know that army is not satisfied ???????? Seems u r more informed than the journalist......
Arjun was not the designated MBT of Indian Army. Atleast not now till mark II arrives.
 
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Add to it that T95 has the same weight as Arjun, and since it beats T90 ... Logically....
Arjun=T95.

They cant say No to Arjun if they say Yes to T95.
 
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t95 is the same weight as arjun? Where did you get that info from? Please provide details.
 
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The highlighted red part was interesting specially when Pakistan is using T-80 Tanks..can any one across the border clarify this..is it true??

We use T-80UD not Basic T-80.
Our T-80UD have improved features of T-84UD for example engine,turret,gun,Imaging system,night vision,missile etc.
Hence making it a new or far improved tank unlike basic russian T-80.
 
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We use T-80UD not Basic T-80.
Our T-80UD have improved features of T-84UD for example engine,turret,gun,Imaging system,night vision,missile etc.
Hence making it a new or far improved tank unlike basic russian T-80.

Haan dil behlana achchi baat hai!

Koi nahin sapno pe rok thodi hai?

:cheers:
 
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The highlighted red part was interesting specially when Pakistan is using T-80 Tanks..can any one across the border clarify this..is it true??
HI,
the article is not written by a Pakistani nor the poster is a Pakistani, so i don't know from where Pakistan came into the scene, unless u were looking to detract the topic. Or start the usual debate " We are better than you" seriously man you being a senior member i was expecting you to be a little more responsible.
 
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Haan dil behlana achchi baat hai!

Koi nahin sapno pe rok thodi hai?

:cheers:

That arguement would have been true if i was indian.
Go google T-80UD of Pak Army.
And next time use urdu we dont understand hindu words like sapna etc.
Thanks
 
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HI,
the article is not written by a Pakistani nor the poster is a Pakistani, so i don't know from where Pakistan came into the scene, unless u were looking to detract the topic. Or start the usual debate " We are better than you" seriously man you being a senior member i was expecting you to be a little more responsible.
I concour man.... It is unfair to bring Pakistan in to this picture. Moreover this thread has to be closed or merged.
MODS please Take a note of this. REGARDS
 
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That arguement would have been true if i was indian.
Go google T-80UD of Pak Army.
And next time use urdu we dont understand hindu words like sapna etc.
Thanks

Oh you meant Khwab - But the point is this is a universal forum for everyone and since I don't know Urdu as well I will post in English!

And I will look up T-80UD.

:cheers:
 
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i dont think arjun is headache bcoz even our army chief Kapoor in his letter to the defence ministry has appreciated the performance of arjun tank and also if we compare arjun with one of best tank iN the world Abrahams the result goes like this

Abrahams :
------------
1)Combat weight
69.54 tons
2)Ground Pressure
15.4 PSI
3)1500 hp engine
4)Max road speed
68 km/h
5)Cross-country speed
48 km/h
6)armament
120 mm M256
7)ammunation type
APFSDS
8)Price
$ 5.4 mn

Arjun:
-----
1)Combat weight
58.5 tons
2)Ground Pressure
11.9 PSI
3)1500 hp engine
4)Max road speed
72 km/h
5)Cross-country speed
40 km/h
6)armament
120 mm rifled
7)ammunation type
APFSDS,HEAT
8)Price
$ 4 mn

also weight of the tank if often cited as a failure, in
actuality, the tank is not very heavy as compared to Abrhams Despite its weight, it has very low ground pressure which will
prevent the tank from ‘sinking in the sand’ as widely criticized. The M1A2, heavier than Arjun by more than 10tons and with much higher ground pressure, performed remarkably well
in the desert sands during the first Gulf War. SO EVALUATING ALL THE PARAMETERS I DONT SEE ARJUN AS A HEADACHE
 
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