India and NSG-News, Updates and Discussions.

[raj76]

http://www.dawn.com/news/1264366/mo...nsensus-on-nuclear-suppliers-group-says-china

ALREADY TONE HAS CHANGED FROM LAST WEEK

China said on Sunday that more talks were needed to build a consensus on which countries can join the main group controlling access to sensitive nuclear technology, after a push by the United States to include India.

China is seen as leading opposition to the US move to include India in the 48-nation Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), but other countries, including New Zealand, Turkey, South Africa and Austria also oppose Indian membership, according to diplomats.

Related: Indian inclusion could affect strategic stability, Pakistan tells Nuclear Suppliers Group

The NSG aims to prevent the proliferation of nuclear weapons by restricting the sale of items that can be used to make those arms.

India already enjoys most of the benefits of membership under a 2008 exemption to NSG rules granted to support its nuclear cooperation deal with Washington, even though India has developed atomic weapons and never signed the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), the main global arms control pact.

"Large differences" remain over the issue of non-NPT countries joining the NSG, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said in an online statement.

"With regard to what to do on the issue of non-NPT signatories joining (the NSG), China consistently supports having ample discussion on this to seek consensus and agreement and come to a unanimous decision," Hong said.

"The NPT is the political and legal basis for the entire international non-proliferation system," Hong said, adding that China would support the group in further talks to come to a consensus at an early date.

Opponents argue that granting India membership would further undermine efforts to prevent proliferation. It would also infuriate India's rival Pakistan, which responded to India's membership bid with one of its own and has the backing of its close ally China.

Also Read: What you need to know about the Nuclear Suppliers Group

A decision on Indian membership is not expected before an NSG plenary meeting in Seoul on June 20, but diplomats have said Washington has been pressuring hold-outs.

Most of the hold-outs oppose the idea of admitting a non-NPT state such as India and argue that if it is to be admitted, it should be under criteria that apply equally to all states rather than under a "tailor-made" solution for a US ally.

 

[Centurion2016]

China is teetering on a u turn

The rest of the world are with india .......on NSG membership

China can try and veto by themselves,

They now are saying more talks needed to get concensus ##

interesting

 

[itachii]

India is not capable to handle Pakistan leave China alone the reason India need US support to counter first Pakistan on the other side (admission) India is basically the Enemy state of mine.. but I MUST appreciated the way they're doing DIPLOMACY in which Pakistan is BIG ZERO!

lol, stop taking yourself so seriously, the world doesn't..

on topic:

I am a ltl unease with the thought of setting up chinese reactors in India. It's a bit too much for a vote to get in to NSG group

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

"Read carefully" US do not need India to counter Pakistan - India need US to counter Pakistan which US has already provided super support to India since last many many years but still India failed in terms of many things. India's neighbor (China and Pakistan) both were not accept Indian hegemony in the region. On the other side India is become a TOOL to counter China and this is hard reality which entire world knows. U.S. is building up India against China. So obvious US Support India in everything to achieve its future objectives (counter and contain China through India, Japan, Vietnam, Australia) Asia Pacific.

Bet me you'll not become NSG member nor even this time nor in future until Pakistan too. China will veto everywhere because this time, US support to India is basically countering China not Pakistan. China will block every single perspective.

Lets turn the clock by 10 years when Indo US relationship were nascent. India did not need US to counter Pakistan. Its really an delusional statement. However US does need India to counter China, both militarily and economically. China US war will never gonna happen for a single fact ie 600 billion dollar trade.
India and China has well the capability to eclipse that amount in future. When in future India China trade crosses 500 billion, what scheme of things Pakistan will be for China is a thing I do not understand.

I have told this before. I reiterate it again. Pakistan and China are well within their rights to canvass other members to support Pakistan. Some countries, no matter, what you convince, will be hard nut to crack to support Pakistan.
When 47 members have agreed to support India, China will never veto. Historically China will not veto when it has got isolated. And when India gives them business, N power plants, an Delhi Chennai HSR line, the ROI will always be higher.
It cannot give an explanation such as both of the countries have to be admitted. Both the countries have to be "voted" separately. Even if US agrees to support Pakistan, it wont go to overdrive to ask its allies to support Pakistan candidature. That's the work of China and Pakistan.
We can convince Ireland, South Africa and US can handle Austria and New Zealand. Turkey needs little more budging. China needs to be handled by both US and India. So not this year. Maybe Not 2017. But come 2018. We will be in.

Yes it is Chinese investment. A win win for both. How much India can offer to China on this issue? Not more than what Pakistan has already given!

Doesnt matter. Its still a soft loan. We do not even know the amount of loan, percentage. For obvious reason, PA while choosing for weapon platform or Pakistan government for N reactors doesnt make this information public.
I repeat again. If I am selling an TV, I prefer an one time single payment, and not something that I will get in 20 years time.

If you may not know, China cannot build more power plants other than the initial MoU linked with Pakistan. I think the number is 8. After that any MoU for N reactors needs NSG approval.
If I remember correctly China budged after 2008 waiver on India, after other powers decided to allow China to build more reactors as per original MoU.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

Doesnt matter. Its still a soft loan. We do not even know the amount of loan, percentage. For obvious reason, PA while choosing for weapon platform or Pakistan government for N reactors doesnt make this information public.
I repeat again. If I am selling an TV, I prefer an one time single payment, and not something that I will get in 20 years time.

If you may not know, China cannot build more power plants other than the initial MoU linked with Pakistan. I think the number is 8. After that any MoU for N reactors needs NSG approval.
If I remember correctly China budged after 2008 waiver on India, after other powers decided to allow China to build more reactors as per original MoU.

That s what these people need to understand, instead of blocking India into NSG( though Pakistan has no clout after US openly supported India) they should think in terms of how many more reactor they can get from this situation, make a deal. Dont try to punch way above ur weight .

Yes u dont want anythng from China. Read the title first before writing msg. Ignorance at its best!!

Do you een understand what I said ? better read before quoting again.

 

[mehboobkz]

• PM dials Putin as China looks to delay NSG bid

 

[neem456]

When we have options of plants from france, US , canada, russia, japan. why should we include china to this list and compromise on quality and security ?

Chinese option is only for those who have no other option and have a scarse budget.

 

[ayesha.a]

Or why India signed those agreements that will let US forces operate on Indian soil (CISMOA/LSA)?

Compared to that, this is nothing.

You have no idea about Indians, if you think we would ever sign such an agreement, or even consider it. The CISMOA/LSA do not, in any way, allow the US military to operate on Indian soil. Hell, India wouldn't even allow Americans to periodically inspect weapons that we purchase from them. You are misinformed about the treaties.

Here is an explanation from another member @jhungary:

.......You guys are seriously misinformed by this LSA to be signed..

This is a Logistic Support Agreement, not a Combat Support Agreement. The LSA only in effect in peace time and under disaster relief operation on either country (US and India). It have no effect when the country is in belligerent states. (I.e. At War)

The LSA only cover mutual support on logistic effort when one visit another country port, either the US visit the Indian Port in peace time or Indian visited US port in Peacetime. The agreement included logistic issue, communication and security. What it basically do is that India don't need to pay base access fee as well *** logistic package fee when they were to access any US Base in the world and vice versa.

This does not work when either US or India is at war. At war, belligerence of a country will follow the International Law of War, which unless US have a mutual defence pact with India, if either US or India is at war and docked into the other country which were not belligerent. The neutrality applies and according to International law, the neutral party must intern the Belligerent Ship and have it inspected by International Red Cross.

But I agree with your overall point, that it is always self interest that guides these decisions about membership. France and USA lobbied for NSG waiver for India, because of the huge potential market it opens up.

 

[Agent_47]

 

[OrionHunter]

Well, India is finally getting the right idea.

That's offering something real, not "good will" or other political fluff and flowery words which have no tangible value.

Intangible things like "good will" and flowery words have no value on the open market. If you want to do some quid-pro-quo we need more offers like these.

Right! Intangibles like emotions and sweet talk have no place in hard nosed diplomacy. China must be given a big carrot of building nuclear power plants in India. Seeing that money makes the mare go, the Chinese should jump at this offer.

But the quid pro quo will be to agree to India's entry into the NSG.

 

[trident2010]

Great news. Include China also. Two greatest civilisations on earth need cooperation not confrontation

 

[Alpha BeeTee]

Deeper than the oceans,higher than the mountains,sweeter than honey and stronger than steel...

If you know what I mean

 

[maxpayne]

what can we offer to china?

China-India to Become World's Largest Trading Partners by 2030

I was referring to nuclear business only as mentioned in title. Obviously both India and China has huge population so more trade.

 

[proud_indian]

I was referring to nuclear business only as mentioned in title. Obviously both India and China has huge population so more trade.

and you think they would risk this volume of trade which is predominantly in their favour for your inclusion in NSG
so you believe that greater than or higher than bulls*it

btw The Westinghouse deal we are going to make with the US itself will make them a whole lot of dollars because they are a considerable part of westinghouse supply chain


You didn't watch the video I earlier posted. Did you?

 

[maxpayne]

and you think they would risk this volume of trade which is predominantly in their favour for your inclusion in NSG
so you believe that greater than or higher than bulls*it

btw The Westinghouse deal we are going to make with the US itself will make them a whole lot of dollars because they are a considerable part of westinghouse supply chain


You didn't watch the video I earlier posted. Did you?

Yes i did. Excluding agriculture, Pakistan is progressing faster than ever. Next year we are hopeful we will jumping even higher. We do not care whatever stakes China has in India, neither does China. China has huge trade/stakes in India, still she went for CPEC. I hope u have understood my point!