India and his dreams

[El Sidd]

Me a snake ??

@El Sidd has described me as a cat.

i do not recall that. i have called you RSS Scum, Nazi, ISIS Kerala chapter, cheerleader of butchering in Middle East.

i like cats. you would make a good kitty litter

Me from RSS ?? Are you drunk ??

you employ the same tactic with respect to Pakistan as RSS.

Just a toned down Muslim rhetorical version.

 

[jamahir]

i do not recall that.

Nine lives of the cat. Here :

Do not attribute false on the dead. Have some respect for them even if you believe you will live 8 more times.

you employ the same tactic with respect to Pakistan as RSS.

Just a toned down Muslim rhetorical version.

Which RSS worker talks of global communism ??

 

[El Sidd]

Which RSS worker talks of global communism ??

It is also not uncommon that RSS workers talk all the crap they can.

Nine lives of the cat. Here :

That was not for being a cat. That was for being an Indian.

 

[jamahir]

It is also not uncommon that RSS workers talk all the crap they can.

Then you should send an email to RSS HQ asking them to put up a big Che Guevara photo on the wall.

And see if they oblige you.

 

[Krptonite]

India and Pakistan need to settle this childish fight over Kashmir once and for all. Peacefully and politically.

One way is as below.

1. Both countries should adopt the same Progressive political system. Two separate, independent republics but with the same political system, much like what pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were with their same Ba'athist systems.

2. Let India-administered Kashmir and Pakistan-administered Kashmir remain with the respective countries.

3. Convert the LoC into an International Border that is crossable for trade, tourism and family visits.

All this will make the separatists in India-administered Kashmir to understand that their desire to join Pakistan-administered Kashmir is unnecessary because both countries will have become the same, politically.

Further, with separatist militancy reduced in IAK, what will remain is Regressive, religious militancy or activism ( for example, of Asiya Andrabi ) which can be controlled and removed with social support from the Progressives among the local civilians. The side effect will also be a drastic removal of the current military force which will lead to more goodwill for the peace project.

Lastly, I would like the refugee Kashmiri Pandits to be allowed to return back to the Valley.

@Joe Shearer @jbgt90

@RealNapster @Moonlight @Mentee and our Kashmiri friend @Zibago

I hope the OP will see peace is better.

Despite your desire for peace and well intended proposed solution, I doubt polity on both sides would accept this solution.

The last time something similar was attempted it resulted in Kargil. Post 26/11 there's too much bad blood and trust deficit between us to attempt something of this magnitude. The current doctrine favours the status quo belying on the increasing gap between our economies.

Not to say that perhaps in the future something could be worked out, however, looking at the increasing hostility permeating both sides that remains a distant probability.

 

[vishwambhar]

Why did Kaurav and Padav fight?

Very good example.... and finally both Kaurav and Pandav were declined to exist after war....

 

[jamahir]

The last time something similar was attempted it resulted in Kargil.

What was attempted ??

And Abhinandan was returned. We in India can show good faith and allow things like letting Indian artistes work with their Pakistani counterparts. And allow resumption of Aman Ki Asha. This would be the first step.

The second step would be resumption of allow food and clothing festivals to be conducted in both countries.

These two steps will at a later time allow the political establishment to have an atmosphere to speak of political settlements.

 

[Krptonite]

What was attempted ??

And Abhinandan was returned. We in India can show good faith and allow things like letting Indian artistes work with their Pakistani counterparts. And allow resumption of Aman Ki Asha. This would be the first step.

The second step would be resumption of allow food and clothing festivals to be conducted in both countries.

These two steps will at a later time allow the political establishment to have an atmosphere to speak of political settlements.

It was during PM Vajpayee and PM Nawaz's era that an agreement akin to your proposal was in the works. Kargil derailed it permanently.

I agree with your assertions about resumption of trade and social links, much to the vehement disagreement you'll find from some of the members here.

Cultural, economical and social exchange between us has the potential to eliminate extreme poverty from this region. However unless the trust deficit and mutual dislike between us is reduced, any large scale cooperation in the short term remains improbable.

 

[Adonis]

Unless the high caste Hindus cease to practice their racial superiority ridden agenda there's no chance that a multi ethnic union like India will ever witness peace let alone both India and Pak reaching on a unifying state consensus.

Same can be said that unless Pakistani Muslims don't stop their religion based bias outlook towards non-Muslims/Indians , no consensus can be reached.
If Hindu upper cast think they are superior (by Caste)....you also think you are superior (by religion)...both are wrong but keep finding faults in other rather than introspecting.

 

[Mentee]

Same can be said that unless Pakistani Muslims don't stop their religion based bias outlook towards non-Muslims/Indians , no consensus can be reached.
If Hindu upper cast think they are superior (by Caste)....you also think you are superior (by religion)...both are wrong but keep finding faults in other rather than introspecting.

Take that as a warning, If the kashmiri genocide doesn't stop then those high caste sharma and varma will keep on paying the price - - - - - -.

 

[SIPRA]

Very good example.... and finally both Kaurav and Pandav were declined to exist after war....

"Aik tha teetar, aik batair
Larhnay main thay dono sher
Larhtay larhtay ho gayi gum
Aik ki chonch, aur aik ki dum"

 

[jamahir]

"Aik tha teetar, aik batair
Larhnay main thay dono sher
Larhtay larhtay ho gayi gum
Aik ki chonch, aur aik ki dum"

Teetar India, Batair Pakistan.

 

[Vikram.veda]

Musharraf and Manmohan had better plan. Each side of Kashmir be administered by respective countries but travel and trade was open to each other. This was to for 25 years after which there was to be a plebiscite choosing a side. Proportionate geography was to be shared at the end. This would have massively favored India given India would have been quite massive economy by then. Modi is just too ambitious.

 

[jamahir]

Musharraf and Manmohan had better plan.

Let's see.

Each side of Kashmir be administered by respective countries but travel and trade was open to each other.

That was my idea too :

2. Let India-administered Kashmir and Pakistan-administered Kashmir remain with the respective countries.

3. Convert the LoC into an International Border that is crossable for trade, tourism and family visits.

This was to for 25 years after which there was to be a plebiscite choosing a side. Proportionate geography was to be shared at the end.

I will post my ideas for this :

1. Both countries should adopt the same Progressive political system. Two separate, independent republics but with the same political system, much like what pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were with their same Ba'athist systems.

All this will make the separatists in India-administered Kashmir to understand that their desire to join Pakistan-administered Kashmir is unnecessary because both countries will have become the same, politically.

To respond to your point, why should we need to wait for 25 years when the change ( on both sides ) can happen now ?? And the need for a plebiscite will be unnecessary as I have noted in my second quote.

And if you ask what Progressive political system should be adopted by both countries, it should be the Jamahiriya system aka The Third Universal Theory which was the Direct Democracy Socialism system that governed Libya until 2011 and which is currently being implemented in Venezuela.

Two countries, India and Pakistan, the same political and economic system, the same mode of Progressive social change.

 

[Vikram.veda]

Let's see.



That was my idea too :





I will post my ideas for this :


To respond to your point, why should we need to wait for 25 years when the change ( on both sides ) can happen now ?? And the need for a plebiscite will be unnecessary as I have noted in my second quote.

And if you ask what Progressive political system should be adopted by both countries, it should be the Jamahiriya system aka The Third Universal Theory which was the Direct Democracy Socialism system that governed Libya until 2011 and which is currently being implemented in Venezuela.

Two countries, India and Pakistan, the same political and economic system, the same mode of Progressive social change.

You seem to see the world in ideal way. You must be pretty kind at heart. But reality is much different. India and Pakistan have different political systems and different stake holders in polity. It will be impossible to dream of such utopia given both have elements (religious) who see each other as the other. Given that, we should have clear boundaries for each and each has to adhere to those boundaries. India and Pakistan are not fighting just on Kashmir. There is much more to it (Ideologically I mean).

You should start this direct democracy socialist system in a small island and see if that would work there. Not everyone are idealistic at heart like you. Each one will come up with his own agenda and destroy the system unintentionally. A good system would work only if there is a strict rule of law enforcing it. People are caring and respectful as long as system encourages such behavior. That is the reason why I believe western democracies flourished. They strictly punished deviant behaviors in their societies and encouraged productive endeavors.