Imran now stopped at UK immigration

[VCheng]

What a load of unadulterated BULL!

The West has its royalty just like South Asia, and they get away with preferential treatment all the time. Are you going to tell me that the Kennedy's are treated the same as Joe Sixpack in New England?

Firstly, are you referring to domestic travel or international travel?
Secondly, are you referring to travel by private jet or by commercial airlines?
Thirdly, whatever preferential treatment they may get locally, how would that apply to their travel to Venezuela, for example?
Lastly, traveling as a private citizen or on official business?

I have presented unadulterated facts, nothing more, nothing less, and nothing else either, whether anyone is capable of accepting it or not.

BTW, how does Imran's perceived status as "royalty" impose any expectations on implementation of C&BP procedures in USA? How can it and should it?

 

[Developereo]

Not a legal point, only an ethical one. If you promise to ask your citizens to tighten their belts & do whatever is necessary in the face of an aid cut off, the least you can do is to not go to those very same countries (regardless of who is funding) with a begging bowl.

Imran Khan is not asking the government of USA or UK to fund his campaign.

You are conflating two separate issues. The foreign aid program is used by governments to promote their foreign policy objectives; Imran Khan does not agree with those policies and, if aid cutoff is the price, so be it.

Personal donations by private citizens, on the other hand, are intended to subsidize specific causes those individuals support. These causes may well run counter to their official government policies but, as long as it remains legal, citizens are free to exercise their democratic right to vote with their wallet. This issue is orthogonal to foreign police debates; many domestic issues are funded through private donations when government subsidies fall short or dry up.

He can't seem to run an campaign without "foreign" money, how does he plan to run the country?

There's plenty of untapped money in Pakistan which can be obtained through reforms in the tax code and corruption.

Paltrow hosts Obama fundraiser in London - New York Daily News

If donors are willing to give money to a political candidate, why shouldn't he take it? As long as any strings attached are out in the open.

there is no reason for Imran Khan (& by extension, Pakistan) to allow himself to be so humiliated.

Even Gandhi was humiliated in South Africa. If people stopped doing the right thing just because some idiots acted up, there would be no social progress.

As i said before, it was a moral point, not a legal one.

The reason I pointed it out is because you had written that it would be illegal in many countries. It is not in the countries concerned.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

IK is a nice guy yaar. Of all Pakistanis , this is one guy who doesn't deserve this.

The problem is there are many nice guys are being treated like dirt at airports and its good at least this brings an important issue to front treatment of people at these airports

Once he comes into power I am sure he will raise the issue , its good that he is treated badly now , how else would he know the plight of what normal ordinary man goes thru

I support Imran Khan thru this ordeal

 

[RazPaK]

The problem is there are many nice guys are being treated like dirt at airports and its good at least this brings an important issue to front treatment of people at these airports

Once he comes into power I am sure he will raise the issue , its good that he is treated badly now , how else would he know the plight of what normal ordinary man goes thru

I support Imran Khan thru this ordeal

I'm a nice guy.

I had the FBI/Homeland security of the United States waiting for me at Manchester airport last year.

 

[Thorough Pro]

He spent his life there and they stop him now, shows their conceited western mentality. Lapdogs of US.

We should be weary of you then

I'm a nice guy.

I had the FBI/Homeland security of the United States waiting for me at Manchester airport last year.

 

[RazPaK]

He spent his life there and they stop him now, shows their conceited western mentality. Lapdogs of US.

We should be weary of you then

Not really. They got all the younger Pakistani guys without family and rounded them up.

Their agents were funny as **** too.

They were like, are you from Peshawar?

I was like no.

Then they said well you look like you're from Peshawar.

I said No, I am from Bahawalpur.

They couldn't spell it so they asked me how to spell it.

Then they asked me If I was pashtun.

I was like No, I am Punjabi from Bahawalpur in the eastern part of the country.

They then had sit me in a room for several hours before giving me clearance to get my luggage.

I thought it would have gotten stolen, but they set it aside.

 

[Bang Galore]

Imran Khan is not asking the government of USA or UK to fund his campaign.

You are conflating two separate issues. The foreign aid program is used by governments to promote their foreign policy objectives; Imran Khan does not agree with those policies and, if aid cutoff is the price, so be it.

Personal donations by private citizens, on the other hand, are intended to subsidize specific causes those individuals support. These causes may well run counter to their official government policies but, as long as it remains legal, citizens are free to exercise their democratic right to vote with their wallet. This issue is orthogonal to foreign police debates; many domestic issues are funded through private donations when government subsidies fall short or dry up.

It is you who is mixing up the issues, I never suggested that there was a legal impediment to doing what IK is doing, just an ethical one & that holds regardless of your defence which skips the big picture.

There's plenty of untapped money in Pakistan which can be obtained through reforms in the tax code and corruption.

Again not my point.

If donors are willing to give money to a political candidate, why shouldn't he take it? As long as any strings attached are out in the open.

For moral, ethical reasons especially when you are running a campaign that seems to suggest you have it while your opponents don't.

Even Gandhi was humiliated in South Africa. If people stopped doing the right thing just because some idiots acted up, there would be no social progress.

Gandhi? This is an argument? Really?

The reason I pointed it out is because you had written that it would be illegal in many countries. It is not in the countries concerned.

I think because Rafael had made the remark of Obama & Romney doing fundraising. I believe that contributions from foreign nationals were being discussed & I suggested that accepting money from foreign nationals for electoral purposes might be illegal in many countries, however that is not the most important point.

 

[Developereo]

Firstly, are you referring to domestic travel or international travel?
Secondly, are you referring to travel by private jet or by commercial airlines?
Thirdly, whatever preferential treatment they may get locally, how would that apply to their travel to Venezuela, for example?
Lastly, traveling as a private citizen or on official business?

I have presented unadulterated facts, nothing more, nothing less, and nothing else either, whether anyone is capable of accepting it or not.

You claimed that Western society treats all people equally and there are no VIPs. The fact is that powerful people get away with all sorts of perks, whether its commercial travel (preferential boarding), government contracts or other areas of life.

For extreme examples, I suggest you look into the various criminal cases around the Kennedy clan over the years and how they magically escape conviction. At least three separate cases come to mind. Money and influence buys justice even in the US of A.

Granted, Western society is more fair than South Asia, but blanket assertions such as yours are also not justified.

 

[Developereo]

It is you who is mixing up the issues, I never suggested that there was a legal impediment to doing what IK is doing, just an ethical one & that hods regardless of you defence which skips the big picture.

From what I gather, your first point is that he should not raise money in countries if he opposes their foreign policy. I explained why that argument fails, both legally and morally, since citizens need not agree with their governments' stance on specific foreign policy matters.

Your other claim is that foreign fundraising raises questions about his ability to govern Pakistan using domestic funds. I am not sure what point you are making but, as I stated, tax reform can go a long way towards raising revenue. Also, the issue of foreign aid is not such a cut-and-dried matter regardless of the rhetoric. As I mentioned, foreign aid is a tool of foreign policy and, as such, the matter is far more complex than an on-off switch.

 

[Juice]

The best response we can give to US and UK is to elect Imran Khan as prime minister in next general elections and then we will see who the **** tries to stop him at airport the next time he visits.

Lol, yeah...we will all go bow at the airport...

 

[darkinsky]

Lol, yeah...we will all go bow at the airport...

you guys bow to the jews, imran's ex wife is a jew

 

[Juice]

you guys bow to the jews, imran's ex wife is a jew

We don't bow to Jews...we tell them who needs killing...they do it.

 

[darkinsky]

We don't bow to Jews...we tell them who needs killing...they do it.

you dont tell you ask

 

[Bang Galore]

From what I gather, your first point is that he should not raise money in countries if he opposes their foreign policy.

While that was important, my main thrust was that a man taking a position that may force his countrymen & women to tighten their belts in the face of a withdrawal of foreign aid shows no compunction in taking foreign money for his election campaign. Can he not run an election campaign even without having to "fundraise" abroad? What signal does it send? Is it not a self invited humiliation when he is then stopped at the airports?

Your other claim is that foreign fundraising raises questions about his ability to govern Pakistan using domestic funds. I am not sure what point you are making but, as I stated, tax reform can go a long way towards raising revenue. Also, the issue of foreign aid is not such a cut-and-dried matter regardless of the rhetoric. As I mentioned, foreign aid is a tool of foreign policy and, as such, the matter is far more complex than an on-off switch.

That was not exactly my point, mine was a slightly more nuanced one. The spectre of someone railing against the foreign policies of some governments & promising to stop that policy regardless of the cost that may occur seemingly unable to resist the lure of the same money even if only to run an election campaign is amusing. Tax reforms are important but lets not hold our breath here. That is not something that will happen in a hurry. However that is a separate issue from willing to set different standards for oneself before one is not in power & a different standard for others when one is comfortably ensconced in their chair. Regardless of what technically might be right, this would have been political suicide & a laughing matter anywhere else.

I was not talking about what might happen on the foreign aid front just as I am not talking about what IK would actually do if he were elected. I was going purely by the rhetoric he has mouthed and whether his actions jell with that.

 

[Developereo]

my main thrust was that a man taking a position that may force his countrymen & women to tighten their belts in the face of a withdrawal of foreign aid shows no compunction in taking foreign money for his election campaign. Can he not run an election campaign even without having to "fundraise" abroad?

Again, you are mixing two separate concepts:
- foreign aid is provided by governments to further their agenda.
- foreign donations are provided by individuals to support their pet causes.

Imran Khan is not averse to foreign money, only to the agenda it (may) underwrite. If foreign NGOs are doing good humanitarian work in Pakistan, he wouldn't oppose them. But if some government thinks their aid money entitles them to go around killing Pakistani civilians, then Imran Khan will say no to that government money.

He is running for a set of principles. Whoever supports those principles is welcome to support his campaign, regardless of their place of residence.

The spectre of someone railing against the foreign policies of some governments & promising to stop that policy regardless of the cost that may occur seemingly unable to resist the lure of the same money even if only to run an election campaign is amusing.

Again, government aid money is not the same money as private citizen donations.

P.S. Let me give you a specific example. The US government used to give 2 billion dollars to Hosni Mubarak of Egypt. Many US citizens gave money to private organizations fighting for democratic reforms in Egypt. Two different set of principles, two different sets of funding, yet both streams of came from the US.