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Imran Khan or Taliban Khan?

Hmara Murtad Pak Army ko pegham"Sharyat Yaa Shadat" Taliban

Hamid hum America ki jung say kb niklain gay? Imran Khan

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Taliban: "Sharyat k Nifaz tak Jung Jari rahay gi"

Imran Khan: "Drone ka Reaction"
 
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I wish I knew how to read Urdu!! :undecided::hitwall:
here you go Babu Saab as promised the complete translation of the article (well best and closest to my abilities)
@hinduguy @karan.1970 @illusion8 @sandy_3126 all all other respected Indian members just for you I translated this although I am not really feeling well today. hope its worth your time.



Taliban Khan or Imran Khan
I have decided to reluctantly write this article after getting fed up with Pakistani warriors. I must say that I have been forced to write because of Pakistani tigers, arrows (reference to Pakistani political party symbols), Liberal heroes and those that are blinded by hateful revenge due to sectarian differences. Now dont be upset because I know what I am going to write is a known fact to everyone but no one says it out out loud.

I am willing to sacrifice my life for Pakistan therefore what I am going to write is without any fear or duress. first of all, for record I dont agree with Taliban mindset and their despicable and worthless actions and I am not defending them.

A person like myself has nothing to do with terrorists whatsoever. on the basis of sect, religion, theology and funding I dont associate with them. to me, terrorists are mad dogs who spill the blood of the innocent and term it as a service to Islam.

Now I must explain one by one what everyone thinks about terrorism.

the tigers of Pakistan (reference to Nawaz League leadership) only love politics, everything else can go to hell for all they care. They know that their biggest threat is from PTI, if it ever, delivers in KPK (province). for economic prosperity and real change (for better) in KPK it is essential that there is peace and safety in the province. but the peace of that province is tied to its fate with the FATA (federally administrated tribal areas) and the province is surrounded from three sides by the tribal areas and FATA is governed and controlled by the central government which is under the thumb of Nawaz league.

Now please, dont try to kid me by saying that KPK must use the police to control the terrorism, if it was that easy then Punjab should have been peaceful and free from terrorism and there would have been no need to deploy military forces in Sawat valley. Now the Tigers (Nawaz league) want PTI government in KPK to fail and for that reason they are ambiguous and clueless by design and by intent they are waiting time as much they can, by not sanctioning military operation (in South Waziristan) nor going ahead with meaningful dialogue (with Taliban).

Zardari leadership (reference to Bilawal of PPP) is teaching bravery to people via twitter feed (reference to his mocking remarks to Muhsarraf. and there is an English saying ..It is easy to be brave from safe side.

Zardari's arrows (PPP leadership i.e. Zardari & his son Bilawal) are forgetting that their own government also negotiated first in Sawat valley and that was done with the full blessing of the Lantern government (reference to party symbol of Awami National Party). when the Taliban broke that accord it resulted in a unified stance of the nation against the Taliban and military operation which was successful. why cant we do all this in FATA? why dont we negotiate with Taliban and give them the chance to break it? which they definitely, will beak, because their survival depends on chaos not peace but the nation will achieve unity because of this. Lantern suffers from same dilemma that is haunting the tiger, PTI has breached into their castle so how they (ANP) would want permanent peace in KPK and its journey to real change (for better future)?

it is interesting that in APC (all parties conference) all parties signed in favor of dialogue (with Taliban) and right after that started taunting PTI of cowardice. where was your bravey during APC mister? why didnt you speakup then? why didnt you raise your objection?

now lets talk about our liberal friends who exhausted themselves by berating Imran Khan through their writings in certain news papers calling him coward Khan and Taliban Khan. its they who term everyone a Taliban sympathizer who talks about dialogue the media van of those brave's got attacked resulting in a loss of life which must be utterly condemned and every Pakistani is greatly saddened by that but it was a great surprise to see that the Anchors of that certain news group were found to be begging and pleading the Taliban. WHY? because the fire reached their own home. afterwords is easy to isssue sermons to the nation with hefty columns and articles but to burn in fire is not an easy experience. I wonder at such people who fell on the feet of Taliban after a single attack have they ever thought about the innocent people of tribal areas? how they are forced to live in pain and misery? they are to suffer drone attacks, Artillery and airstrikes, military operations and also the thuggery of Taliban as well?

now we talk about faith and sectarian obsession. some people want outright operation against Taliban simply for the fact that Taliban have declared them heretics and have attacked them countless times. I must clarify that I dont consider that certain sect (writer is talking about shias) heretic at all instead I consider those Taliban as heretics who are killing the innocent people. anyway I respect the feelings of this sect and request them to take it easy, we dont support terrorists and we are not Taliban sympathizers but we want to get rid of this menace from its roots. and we are going to be talking about this issue as well later on.

to find the solution to a problem it is important to understand it. did TTP exist before the American war on terror? it didnt exist. it means that the root of this problem is tied up with America somewhere. the biggest excuse terrorists use to influence & recruit innocent minds is that the Pakistani state is acting like a slave and mercenary army of America therefore waging a holy war (jihad) against it is permissible and justified. without entering into the argument of whether their excuse is justified or not, it is a given fact that not all Taliban groups are fighting on an ideology, many of them are fighting with help of dollars, Saudi Riyals and Indian rupee. the problem is that the people that are fighting you on ground are the ones that are brain washed through such excuses and the biggest one of such excuses is the slavery of America.

Now lets talk about solution to the problem. in my humble opinion there are only 2 solutions that can can be tried with minimum amount of setbacks. very first one among the both which is a precondition and that is to prove disassociation of Pakistan with America. we got the time for that and we can prove it. How? stop the NATO supplies at the central / federal level and express complete dissociation with drone strikes if they cant be stopped. when America leaves this region then the chance to prove it (our disassociation with USA) to our audience will be lost.

first solution is after meeting the above precondition, Taliban should be offered a dialogue and a deadline to respond in 2 to 3 weeks. if after that Taliban dont refrain from their attacks then take the entire nation into confidence and tell it everything and start the operation, God willing many among Taliban will lay down their weapons and the rest will die like dogs.

second solution is after meeting the precondition of stopping the NATO supplies commence the operation and even then there are good chances of success. problem is that many brave souls loose their tongues when it comes to stopping NATO route. if you start the operation without closing the NATO route then you might succeed in the operation but this problem will not be rooted out and maybe Pakistan will start inching towards Al-Bakistan (a refernce to becoming an extremist extension of KSA).

PS: its important to clarify few misunderstandings.

  • "if we are to negotiate with Taliban then might as well negotiate with the common criminals too".A simple answer to that is there is a huge difference between an individual crime and an organised insurgency. both are dealt differently. do Israelis and Palestinians dont negotiate? did IRA not negotiate with UK? Sri Lanka example will come later.

  • "Dialogue cant take place without the permission of those people who have lost their loved ones". Answer to that is that dialogue is not meant to forgive Taliban but to rid this problem at its roots. second response to this statement is did Japan ask before negotiating with Americans after loosing hundreds of thousands to American nuclear attack? lets leave Japan , during Iran Iraq war which resulted in the huge loss of life on either side, did the Iranian government seek permission from the relatives of dead before negotiating peace with Sadam? governments and country dont function like this.

  • Third biggest mistake and misconception is that if Sri Lanka can achieve victory without dialogue then why cant we? the answer to that question is do you know what is meant by an island? its really hard to get in and out of it. secondly Sri Lanka didnt have Afghanistan for its neighbor which offers sanctuary to the terrorists whenever they have been beaten up by us. reality is that Sri Lanka had to fight for 30 years and thats when it finally achieved its victory and when India stopped poking its nose as well. Local Tamil community left LTTE and Sri Lankan government kept negotiating peace in the meantime. Pakistani situation is very different to Sri Lanka.


Article ends
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I have done the translation but I dont agree with some straw man arguments put forward by the writer, specially in some parts of the passage he appears to be very insensitive and bordering ridicule of some victims which I find disturbing but he is not alone he is representing the mindset of our heartless society and there are many on this forum as well. I do respect his opinion about PTI but sadly it hasnt done any favor to itself by only resorting to protests against drone strikes. that is the only personal misgiving I have about PTI but I support the party and its leader over any political party in Pakistan.

his assumptions seem well intended but it seems he bypasses some facts (false notion of united opinion of nation & expecting the nation a sudden change of heart IF such and such thing is done, same nation that is clueless after loosing over 50K of people) he also contradicts himself by first advocating to build a case to the nation about taliban before operation and then he dismisses taking opinion from the nation (specially the victim families) about going ahead with any dialgoue with the taliban.

people who think that somehow they can change the mindset of those who currently support the taliban despite seeing what they have done to Pakistan by such childish/ token actions like disassociating with America and blocking NATO supplies? have we not done that many times? Taliban still enjoy unflinching support form their core group of people in the cross section of our society. those who despise taliban dont need any convincing and its like preaching the converted by doing the foreplay of doing dialogue and closing NATO supply , for crying out loud dont insult your and our judgement.
 
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@Irfan Baloch
Thanks for the translation Irfan bhai! :tup:

I agree with your comments. Since its establishment, the TTP through its various demarches have announced the following objectives and principles:

1. Enforce Shari`a, unite against NATO forces in Afghanistan and perform “defensive jihad against the Pakistan
army.”

2. React strongly if military operations are not stopped in Swat District and North Waziristan Agency.

3. Demand the abolishment of all military checkpoints in the FATA area.

4. Demand the release of Lal Masjid (Red Mosque) Imam Abdul Aziz. (Earlier demand).

5. Refuse future peace deals with the government of Pakistan.

There seems to be no meeting point especially the condition laid down by the Pakistani government that they should lay down their arms before a 'meaningful dialogue' can take place (This has now probably been watered down).
 
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@Irfan Baloch thanks for the translation. I agree some of the arguments are silly but the main crux of argument is, you have to talk to your opponent in an insurgency. And I agree with that view.
Most of the time the demand is impossible to agree but when talks start both side find a way out.
The ultimate goal is political rehabilitation within framework of pakistani constitution.
 
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@Irfan Baloch

Thanks for the translation, I agree with your comments as well.

The author is a bit myopic in his view and is more concerned about internal politics against his party and looking for a solution within Pakistan. Imran Khan and his cadre most likely will not reach far in coming up with a solution or getting rid of the Taliban and its support base if this is the view, It would be better to look at this Taliban problem in a more wider perspective with what information that we have been reading for a while now.

Why the TTP exists and came into being?

Assumptions that the TTP was formed because of American presence may not be true - if it was true then they would be attacking American assets and interests in Pakistan but instead they are killing Pakistani civilians, officials, girls like Malala, kill polio workers and indulge in local sectarian violence and issuing fatwas. They are more keen on implementing their brand of Sharia and hatred for other sects. The clear indication here is their existence is there for a totally different purpose than to oppose American presence. Of course, they project the American presence and Pakistan's support as a cause, but their goals are completely different and that goal matches with what's happening elsewhere in the ME, Africa, CAR and to an extent in SE Asia.

NATO presence and it's opposite resistance force presence did fuel and provide manpower for the formation of TTP, but it would have anyway been formed because of the lawless region of Afghanistan pre 2001 which became a hot bed of jihaadi groups from all over the world.

Assumptions that the TTP gets funding from the CIA or RAW may not be true - if it was true than American forces and Indian forces wouldn't be fighting the forces that carry the same mentality elsewhere. Given a chance a TTP like group would have been formed in India or any other country, so we know the dangers of aiding such people.

Secondly, for an insurgency movement certain requirements exist like Manpower, material, ideology, cause, leadership and of course money.

If one views logically then neither India or the US can provide groups like the TTP with the ideology (because our ideologies don't match with such groups, we aren't even from the the same time period or the same world) and leadership (because we do not follow the same religion, or have people in leadership positions like sultans, caliphs, dictators or kings) , manpower (because we do not have the many thousands of Brainwashed Muslim youth in our country who can or are willing to do jihaad for a global Muslim cause - though if we are not careful then we too can become a source of it), material (to an extent yes, but the taliban uses Soviet, Chinese or locally sourced weapons and explosives and not American or Indian ones).

The only possible thing that we can provide is money, but any reasonable person would know that with the availability of petro dollars, mining interests, donations, drug trafficking, money laundering, weapon trafficking, piracy, extortion and other shady business interests such groups do not need our few millions for their cause.


One reason that comes out to the fore for the TTP's existence is it's part of the global jihaad group that's presently in operation in other Islamic countries, their ideology of an "Islamic state of Pakistan run on Jihaad" matches with this global phenomena, their fighters, trainers, weapons and leadership are also sourced and supplied from the same pool that groups like ISIS, ISIL, AQIM, Al Shabab, Boko Haram and numerous other groups that are fighting in Russia, Syria, Africa, Afghanistan and Pakistan draw from.

Thirdly, Pakistan hasn't come up with any proof of RAW, CIA involvement because most likely none exist.

I suspect that all these groups come under the umbrella of international groups under Al Qaeda. Pakistan is quoted as the Al Qaeda core and TTP as a collaborator of AQ.

So the assumption by the author that the TTP menace is a local problem or are formed because of American presence and aided by India is most likely wrong and you are looking at the wrong sources and the wrong reasons for its existence and sustenance.

Coming to the solution, I think localized operations and actions against these groups in individual countries will not yield satisfying results and will not eradicate such groups completely, they'll just keep evacuating if it becomes too much to handle and move into a different sector or country.

Ideally and a difficult, near impossible option is taking an international approach by all affected countries together to wipe out their source of manpower, weapons, ideology, leadership and money without which I don't think we can wipe the whole menace completely.
 
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Agreed with the rest of your balanced post.

Just one comment.

IK name comes up because his followers keep on posting his name and his news and his $tupid views.

If Jahliyya fil Islam (JI) Mullah munawwar had such enthused posters on PDF, we'd bring his name up as well.

It really depends on the thread and subject line.

Otherwise

iss hammam main sub nungay hain :D
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It's more like IK phobia
 
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@illusion8 @OrionHunter @Ravi Nair
thanks for your comments

@illusion8 I had exactly same thing in mind which you so eloquently explained. re what drives TTP

reference
to the article

I forgot to add, to date no matter how much we would like, we have no proof of "Indian rupee" funding the TTP nor the US Dollar (not even circumstantial evidence) but we do have undeniable / multiple sources of Riyal funding the TTP war machinery. scolding "certain sect" (shias) for demanding operation is also unjust as many of you have read that in Baluchistan yet again Mustung proves to be a regular Shia slaughter house. if TTP will loose its steam after American withdrawal and our distancing with USA then what is driving FSA (and its TTP volunteers in Syria) to commit to genocide of minorities, gang rapes & cannibalism? there is no America there, where is America in Somalia?( refering to mind set & ideology that will carry on violence regardless across the globe) would TTP commit a joint suicide like some American cult sect after American withdrawal? dont think so.. it has its eyes on the prize of Islamabad and its constitution avenue turned into a slaughter house of "unbelievers".
 
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reference
to the article

I forgot to add, to date no matter how much we would like, we have no proof of "Indian rupee" funding the TTP nor the US Dollar (not even circumstantial evidence) but we do have undeniable / multiple sources of Riyal funding the TTP war machinery. scolding "certain sect" (shias) for demanding operation is also unjust as many of you have read that in Baluchistan yet again Mustung proves to be a regular Shia slaughter house. if TTP will loose its steam after American withdrawal and our distancing with USA then what is driving FSA (and its TTP volunteers in Syria) to commit to genocide of minorities, gang rapes & cannibalism? there is no America there, where is America in Somalia? would TTP commit a joint suicide like some American cult sect after American withdrawal? dont think so.. it has its eyes on the prize of Islamabad and its constitution avenue turned into a slaughter house of "unbelievers".
Please tell me that(cannibalism) was a bad joke... :undecided:
 
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@Irfan Baloch thanks for the translation. I agree some of the arguments are silly but the main crux of argument is, you have to talk to your opponent in an insurgency. And I agree with that view.
Most of the time the demand is impossible to agree but when talks start both side find a way out.
The ultimate goal is political rehabilitation within framework of pakistani constitution.
Thing is most members here on PDF get carried away and understandably so! But when we look at the bigger picture we realize that war is not the solution. If it was we would have won this many moons ago, same goes for US and any other country fighting insurgency.
We gotta win hearts and minds of populace which require comprehensive dialog process backed by military might.
 
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Please tell me that(cannibalism) was a bad joke... :undecided:
have you seen Al Qaeda affiliates in Syria resorting to cannibalism? they have now TTP volunteers as well who have same backers as other Al Qaeda affiliates fighting the Assad regime. no it was not a bad joke but a reality.

in Syria, the FSA has resorted to gang rape and they have even got a religious fatwa backing their actions. in pakistan the TTP didnt even bother waiting for that fatwa and engaged in rape in Sawat (whatever the fanciful name their apologists give them but they were rapes) also the TTP engages in rape of the shia women before killing and dumping their bodies along with their male companions and killing their children whatever their age.

so MY dear.. NO it was not meant to be a bad joke

but while talking about joke let me share one with you which will hurt me more than you.

the Joke is what we Pakistanis have been tought throughout our short history about the carnage of the partition....

all the killings, rapes, mutilations of bodies and hacking of limbs of the migrants of the partition were one sided and ONLY done by Hindus and Sikhs... WHEREAS
ALL Hindu and Sikh migrants from Pakistani side were allowed to go in peace and loving care. I innocently believed in that because Hindus and Sikhs can ONLY be bad and Muslims can ONLY do good because Muhammad PBUH told them to.
but now what TTP, FSA, Al Shahab, Al Qaeda, LeT, LeJ and whatever are doing to every unfortunate human being across the globe and specially in Pakistan tells me that they dont really need Muhammad's teaching but have a convenient way of terming all their barbaric actions as Islamic and that is a very crude and cruel joke.

lets laugh now
 
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A wasteful Thread where even senior members are talking foolishly...

IF government of Pakistan could not eradicate some collective 2500-3500 kati pahari and Layari Terrorists gangs in Sindh and you people want an operation in N. waziristan and over all KPK. I ask you who are you tomorrow people of KPK would want a full blown Ops in Sindh. Why is everyone interested in ruining and destroying KPK why not Sindh and Bulochistan also. If you want an Ops then let me pen down Areas of Ops all together....layari, kati parahi infact complete Karachi, Sargodha, lahore, south Punjab, hangu, kohat, N. and south waziristan, bannu, DI Khan, tal, complete Bulochistan, swat, parachinar, various other area in Punjab....How about complete operations all over Pakistan...

Let me end one more time those who are in favor of Operations first clean up layari as a test case then talk about fighting taliban groups...rangers, police and FC has failed...if you can't do it in 1 decade you won't be able to do it in next 10 years you did not implement ottoman empire's laws find them hang/eradicate them asap.

Oh not to forget who fed and kept taliban raised them and made them brave for this day, i am sure you and i know who they are ask hameed gul who belong to Army No? Maybe you people should now realize people within established fked up Pakistan well, no point in finger pointing at IK, pti or any other political party mr. hameed gul and associates and the commander of Pak Army of that time zia and his followers are the first to be blamed for everything last comes IK so grow up and point finger at the ones who initiated it they were not civilians that is a bitter reality you people keep denying.
 
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