Impact on Introduction of Apaches AH64 Block 3 in Indian Army

[Roybot]

T
I would have prefered Comanche helicopters for these special roles, but the Apache will be a good addition to IAFs capabilities too. However, way more important they adding them would be adding armed drones and that's a field were we still lack behind!

Comanche is not even in production?

 

[sancho]

Comanche is not even in production?

Of course not, that's why the smiley. It just would have been the better helicopter for such roles.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Apaches is for jealous IAFs. Army will have to stay content with LCH and Rudras, unless there are any further orders from IA for heavy attack helicopter.

 

[Abingdonboy]

This particular deal for 22 is purely for the IAF to replace their existing fleet of Mi-35s. There is a strong possibly of the deal growing in size later on as many Indian defence deals these days seem to do. A figure of 60-80 units is not inconceivable and has been speculated by many defence analysts. If the IA AAC wants the Apache they will have to conduct their own heavy attack helo competion(I suppose there is the possiblity of follow on orders being placed by IAF on behalf of IA AAC but this is too logical!!). There is even the likelihood that the IA could pick a completey different platform to the IAF- this unneeded duplication of efforts is not unheard of, look at the ALH WSI's weapon suite in IAF/IA service. The real question is does the AAC have a long term requirement for heavy attack helos, maybe they will take their time, induct the ALH WSI and LCH and go from there to fill any potential gaps they see that emerge. either this or there is a huge change in the IAF mindset and they transfer all Apaches over to the IA (not too likely).


Even still wrt the AAC the mere induction of the LCH, ALH WSI and new LUH/LOH is a MASSIVE leap foreward for the AAC and will enhance the firepower and capability of the IA many fold. It will be, to use a fighter anology, like replacing 2nd/3rd gen fighters with 4.5+/5th gen fighters. And what is even better is that the IA is going for a greater than 1-1 replacement (granted in the LCH's case this niche didn't exist before) so the AAC is not just growing in scope but also size.

 

[sancho]

Apaches is for jealous IAFs. Army will have to stay content with LCH and Rudras, unless there are any further orders from IA for heavy attack helicopter.

Actually, for IAF it's just a normal replacement, for IA it might be a need for jealousy, because the combat helicopters today still remain und IAFs control and until there are policy changes between the forces, IA might not able to add foreign attack helicopters. But as mentioned, for their requirements, it's not needed anymore when Rhudra an LCH will be inducted!

 

[Roybot]

Of course not, that's why the smiley. It just would have been the better helicopter for such roles.

Ah right, my bad. What about Kawasaki -OH1? Do you think a batch of LCH can be/should be developed along the lines of OH1 for reconnaissance role?

 

[Skull and Bones]

Actually, for IAF it's just a normal replacement, for IA it might be a need for jealousy, because the combat helicopters today still remain und IAFs control and until there are policy changes between the forces, IA might not able to add foreign attack helicopters. But as mentioned, for their requirements, it's not needed anymore when Rhudra an LCH will be inducted!

I referred IAF jealous because they're not letting IA to have their own fixed wing attack aircraft wing citing some memorandum signed in the 80s.

Maybe the Mi-35s will be transferred to IA.

 

[Nishan_101]

India might order 40 of these, not 22. I am sure and I can bet too.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Ah right, my bad. What about Kawasaki -OH1? Do you think a batch of LCH can be/should be developed along the lines of OH1 for reconnaissance role?

I'm sure the reconnaissance role has already been asked for and will be in LCH's repatore. As far as I can see not to much would need to be done except fitting of certain intel gathering external stores to the LCH's weapon stations.

 

[sancho]

Ah right, my bad. What about Kawasaki -OH1? Do you think a batch of LCH can be/should be developed along the lines of OH1 for reconnaissance role?

Reconnaissance will just be one part of what IAF might intend with the Apaches and mainly because of it's radar and avionics capabilities. They won't go for a dedicated helicopter for that, but could simply upgrade LCH or Rudra too. The video Jade posted on the last site shows, how the new Block 3 features could be used in a netcentric environment, if the Apaches could be linked with other Indian assets, so it's not their attack capabilities that makes it an important addition, like some people think, but it's advanced avionics, communication and commanding features. An Apache linked with LCH and Rudra could be the leader of a mixed squadron and dramatically increase the total performance, even if it don't fire a single weapon.

Maybe the Mi-35s will be transferred to IA.

I wouldn't mind it, but as soon as Rudra is inducted, how useful will the Mi 35s be? They basically are bigger Rudras with tandem seat config, because both carry similar weapons and can transport some troops too. The addition of LCH instead will give IA way more, than the Mi 35s, just like transfering bigger parts of the Mi 17 fleet.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

I wouldn't mind it, but as soon as Rudra is inducted, how useful will the Mi 35s be? They basically are bigger Rudras with tandem seat config, because both carry similar weapons and can transport some troops too. The addition of LCH instead will give IA way more, than the Mi 35s, just like transfering bigger parts of the Mi 17 fleet.

Aren't the Mi 35's better armored?!
They were called "Flying Tanks",IIRC.

 

[sancho]

Aren't the Mi 35's better armored?!
They were called "Flying Tanks",IIRC.

Possibly, I was refering to the advantages differences of them to dedicated combat helicopters like Mi 28, Apache or LCH.

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

Possibly, I was refering to the advantages differences of them to dedicated combat helicopters like Mi 28, Apache or LCH.

The Mi 24/35 have some advantages wrt teh Apache/Mi 28>>>

As a combination gunship and troop transport, the Mi-24 has no direct NATO counterpart. While the UH-1 ("Huey") helicopters were used in the Vietnam War either to ferry troops, or as gunships, they were not able to do both at the same time. Converting a UH-1 into a gunship meant stripping the entire passenger area to accommodate extra fuel and ammunition, and removing its troop transport capability. The Mi-24 was designed to do both, and this was greatly exploited by airborne units of the Soviet Army during the 1980–89 Soviet war in Afghanistan

And the Armor was/is pretty good and certainly better than the Rudra>>

The body is heavily armored and can resist impacts from .50 caliber (12.7 mm) rounds from all angles, including the titanium rotor blades. The cockpit is protected by ballistic-resistant windscreens and a titanium-armored tub.The cockpit and crew compartment are overpressurized to protect the crew in NBC conditions.

From Wiki.
In the below scenario,wouldn't the Mi 35's been a better option?
RoyalMilitary, Rescue operation: Royal Marines attempt to rescue...

 

[xataxsata]

60 Apaches, Hundreds of Javelin missile= death for enemy tank columns.

It's thousands not hundreds

Not to forget 512 CBU-105 Sensor Fuzed Weapons.........cluster bombs

60 Apaches, Hundreds of Javelin missile= death for enemy tank columns.

It's thousands not hundreds

Its evident the deal for 22 AH 64 Block3 will be signed very soon. In Army Aviation Circles air is Hot that Number will increase to atleast 60. Purely from creation of Air Cavalry would like to know views of Members on Force Multiplication. No Bubbish comments please.

Apaches AH64 Block 3 will be used by the IAF to take out enemy's radar network as USA have done in Iraq.

 

[sancho]

The Mi 24/35 have some advantages wrt teh Apache/Mi 28>>>

Just like Rudra, but in the attack role real combat helicopters have advantages.

In the below scenario,wouldn't the Mi 35's been a better option?

That wasn't a role of the Apache, they were just the closest to rescue the guys that's it. Normally you used search & rescue helicopters for these roles.