‘I’m Frightened’: backlash after Paris attack

[SQ8]

Islamic terrorism is unique to Islam. The terrorists and their goals have broad support in the Islamic community. The very fact ordinary Muslims claim to be victims of all this, and are only ever interested in protesting perceived outrages by kaffirs, proves as much. Europe is awash in Muslims who demand to live in countries they hate.

Shall I send you a tin foil hat too?

 

[Ice Cube]

sad to see such attacks on everyday regular people who just happen to be muslim but one cant deny that there is a problem there.

of all the people in the world, muslims probably take their religion the most seriously, and that immediately opens up a pathway to insanity.

religion sucks, can you please just get rid of that disgusting arabic garbage bag garb, at least in Europe and the US etc ?

far right nazis and white supremacists are as deluded and crazy but you're kind of asking for it when you got a 2 foot stacheless beard or dressed in a garbage bag, which is not only a legit security risk but also just plain rude to not let people see you, what the hell is up with this medieval arab cultural bs ?

 

[Jaanbaz]

sad to see such attacks on everyday regular people who just happen to be muslim but one cant deny that there is a problem there.

of all the people in the world, muslims probably take their religion the most seriously, and that immediately opens up a pathway to insanity.

religion sucks, can you please just get rid of that disgusting arabic garbage bag garb, at least in Europe and the US etc ?

far right nazis and white supremacists are as deluded and crazy but you're kind of asking for it when you got a 2 foot stacheless beard or dressed in a garbage bag, which is not only a legit security risk but also just plain rude to not let people see you, what the hell is up with this medieval arab cultural bs ?

Some people also see Indian culture as abhorrent too, the filthy slums, the weird dancing and obsession with White skin, can't you people just get rid of this bullshit culture of yours?

 

[Jungibaaz]

These are valid questions. You are also asking them correctly, which is important, that I can concede to you, even if I disagree with what to conclude or what to add.

Your arguments are valid for the most part...but islamic history is replete with violence and war, I am no scholar of history. But there is something seriously seriously wrong.

Indian muslims who will be the world's largest muslim population in the world shortly are supposedly the most peaceful group in the world. .but then..there come wahaabist preachers in their thousands trying to turn them into maniacal fanatics, ISI inciting them to turn into traitors, Internet filled with propaganda from isis which will turn a few eventually.

When you say that muslims want isis dead....then why is there no muslim army or muslim airforce attacking them and taking care of the issue?..I hear pakistan refused to join an anti isis coalition..If isis really troubles muslims so much then why did pakistan turn is back?.

A few internet or media condemnation does not cut...If you consider Hindu extreme right wing rising in India as a issue....who do you see opposing it?...It's Hindus..even at the cost of alienating their audience or putting up with lot of criticism. They might be wrong or they might be right..that's for us to sort out.

Similarly If you see Christian right wing expanding..its the christians who stand up against it.

First of all, I am not here to argue that the Muslim world is not infested with terrorism that is a result of a prior infestation of extremism and sectarianism, note the latter, sectarianism is very often, and very wrongly overlooked by many so called 'analysts' when it comes to these issues. It is hugely important. Nowhere (hardly anywhere) in the Muslim world is any militancy, or terrorism complete without a sectarian element.

I am also not here to deny that the end responsibility of the task of dealing with these monstrous creatures lies with Muslims. In fact, I believe now, and have been proven right in seeing that no foreign intervention can kill these parasitic militancies, they often make the situation worse in their intervention, it is ultimately the task of Muslims to do it themselves.

But...

It is Muslims who are doing most to combat extremism. Granted, certain GCC countries are complacent, and other support extremism. The same countries in turn are propped up solely because their power is profitable to many world powers. However, it is Muslim Kurds, Muslim Syrians, Muslim Iraqis, Muslim Pakistanis, Muslim Afghans, Muslim people who are fighting the militancies at home. We are most involved, and we suffer the heaviest tolls.

The whole calls for Muslims to 'do more' is seriously out of place.

Also, Muslims in the west face a weird situation, where they look on in horror at the terrorist incidents just as other Europeans would, and then at the end of it, misunderstood fools speak out against all Muslims as a whole, and they often use the counter of; "Moderate Muslims need to 'do more'... or speak up more". They do this, while simultaneously claiming that there are no moderates, and then the irony just gets more elaborate... when we do speak up, often we're accused of lying, being outliers, or in the case of your quote; 'A few internet or media condemnation does not cut...'.

Well, what do you expect, people call for us to be vocal, which is not right or necessary, and then when we do, it isn't enough. What more should my Muslim doctor, my Muslim teacher, bus driver, retired old man, or school-kid meant to do about it? It's a weird and unresolvable situation people like to put us in, it is ridiculous and I don't agree with it at all.

Not to mention, it causes further division, which for obvious reasons I won't discuss, nobody should want.

Muslims or Islam hasn't matured enough or one can say that it is restricted or handicapped or too medieval to evolve compared to the other mainstream religions, that it transforms into something meaningful.

Islam is no unified entity, nor are Muslims. And it's not that Islam as a whole has not 'evolved'... it is instead the case that the Muslim world has regressed and in some places regressed to the point where it has never seen in its own history.

But the reasons for it are found in an entirely 20th century phenomenon, and are entirely political. Muslims did not wake up one sunny day and discover something new in their scriptures. No, the times changed, and politics, combined with religion, caused a storm.

For e.g...If one becomes more muslim..then he becomes more intolerant and hate filled for other religons and more restrictive in associating with others and more restrictive to its women ..case in point any high mullah scholar or mufti..

This is false. For an individual issue, I can best use my own example, I have found the opposite, Islam if you are guided to by a hate preacher, you will arrive at a hateful Islamic outlook, if by a sufi, or a serious mainstream preacher, you arrive at a much better version. Specifically, I lived through a turbulent era for Muslims in the West, and deepening my understanding of Islam made me more liberal, more tolerant, more secular, and in thoroughly more European.

 

[illusion8]

there is another fact also...Japan, Korea and Taiwan never attacked any country or group in recent history while NATO attacked Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia and Syria so they have created animosities.

Whom did nigeria, Chad, Cameroon, Kenya attack?..they are under some worst terrorist attacks btw.

 

[Ice Cube]

Some people also see Indian culture as abhorrent too, the filthy slums, the weird dancing and obsession with White skin, can't you people just get rid of this bullshit culture of yours?

so where is the "hinduphobia" then ?

all we see are attacks on muslims and sometimes the odd sikh or random brown person will be attacked because the attackers thought they're muslim.

ever heard of a muslim get attacked because people thought he was hindu or buddhist etc ?

 

[illusion8]

These are valid questions. You are also asking them correctly, which is important, that I can concede to you, even if I disagree with what to conclude or what to add.




First of all, I am not here to argue that the Muslim world is not infested with terrorism that is a result of a prior infestation of extremism and sectarianism, note the latter, sectarianism is very often, and very wrongly overlooked by many so called 'analysts' when it comes to these issues. It is hugely important. Nowhere (hardly anywhere) in the Muslim world is any militancy, or terrorism complete without a sectarian element.

I am also not here to deny that the end responsibility of the task of dealing with these monstrous creatures lies with Muslims. In fact, I believe now, and have been proven right in seeing that no foreign intervention can kill these parasitic militancies, they often make the situation worse in their intervention, it is ultimately the task of Muslims to do it themselves.

But...

It is Muslims who are doing most to combat extremism. Granted, certain GCC countries are complacent, and other support extremism. The same countries in turn are propped up solely because their power is profitable to many world powers. However, it is Muslim Kurds, Muslim Syrians, Muslim Iraqis, Muslim Pakistanis, Muslim Afghans, Muslim people who are fighting the militancies at home. We are most involved, and we suffer the heaviest tolls.

The whole calls for Muslims to 'do more' is seriously out of place.

Also, Muslims in the west face a weird situation, where they look on in horror at the terrorist incidents just as other Europeans would, and then at the end of it, misunderstood fools speak out against all Muslims as a whole, and they often use the counter of; "Moderate Muslims need to 'do more'... or speak up more". They do this, while simultaneously claiming that there are no moderates, and then the irony just gets more elaborate... when we do speak up, often we're accused of lying, being outliers, or in the case of your quote; 'A few internet or media condemnation does not cut...'.

Well, what do you expect, people call for us to be vocal, which is not right or necessary, and then when we do, it isn't enough. What more should my Muslim doctor, my Muslim teacher, bus driver, retired old man, or school-kid meant to do about it? It's a weird and unresolvable situation people like to put us in, it is ridiculous and I don't agree with it at all.

Not to mention, it causes further division, which for obvious reasons I won't discuss, nobody should want.



Islam is no unified entity, nor are Muslims. And it's not that Islam as a whole has not 'evolved'... it is instead the case that the Muslim world has regressed and in some places regressed to the point where it has never seen in its own history.

But the reasons for it are found in an entirely 20th century phenomenon, and are entirely political. Muslims did not wake up one sunny day and discover something new in their scriptures. No, the times changed, and politics, combined with religion, caused a storm.



This is false. For an individual issue, I can best use my own example, I have found the opposite, Islam if you are guided to by a hate preacher, you will arrive at a hateful Islamic outlook, if by a sufi, or a serious mainstream preacher, you arrive at a much better version. Specifically, I lived through a turbulent era for Muslims in the West, and deepening my understanding of Islam made me more liberal, more tolerant, more secular, and in thoroughly more European.

Again. .completely valid points ...but lets assume you raise objections in a muslim country or call for transformation or call for a reform of Islamic practises (which one would correctly assume is quite essential) you would be named heretic, blasphemous and end up being punished...so there is very very little scope for reformation or change.

As you pointed out in your last para and what I reiterated - you understood tolerance, secularism and liberalism in a non muslim environment...wouldn't have been possible in a muslim country..because Islam doesn't have that space...even if it does limitedly..It does out of obligation to exist with the non muslim world.

Islamic violence for the whole part is currently war with hundreds getting killed daily at the moment...compared to other extreme religious right wingers being more rhetorical or ideological or islamophobic with some hints of violence...not to the grand scale and level thats happening in Islamic sectarianism.

And..many others don't understand it..

Other religious transformations happened because of the protests and activations by the people from the same religious group.

Islam doesn't offer that bandwidth for liberal or forward thinking Muslims to change their leaders or preachers or bring in modernisation or reform, because opposition to change is also inbuilt.

People are confused and bewildered..and I for one don't fault them for heir lack of understanding.

 

[Aestu]

Are American Jews being harassed and terrorised over Pollard , like American Muslims are being harassed and terrorized over Paris attacks?

I don't know...are they? What metrics are we using?

In the carnage of it all , the Israelis got their man out

What carnage?

Pollard was behind bars for over a decade before the Israelis "got their man out" by asking nicely. Maybe it proves that the Islamic world's entire perspective is skewed - that antagonism is a self-inflicted condition?

 

[Jai Bharat]

We Muslims want ISIS destroyed far more badly than anyone, believe us, but what bigots do, and right wing idiots do is, play right into the hands of the terrorists and their propaganda.

So where is the Arab/Turkish coalition? IS is surrounded by Muslim countries with strong militaries such as Turkey and Saudi Arabia, however the prevailing perception is that none of their Muslim neighbours have the guts or the will to do anything about them. Right now Iran, US, and Russia seem to be the only ones doing anything about them.

Even American liberals are starting to ask themselves if the Muslim majority in the ME passively supports IS, as rumours of Turkey buying and enabling IS oil purchases, with the Erodogan government looking the other way, have spread.

LOL... quantify "Growing"?!

Bloomberg Politics Poll: Most Americans Oppose Syrian Refugee Resettlement - Bloomberg Politics

 

[RescueRanger]

Bloomberg Politics Poll: Most Americans Oppose Syrian Refugee Resettlement - Bloomberg Politics

Lol.... Wow, so authoritative! OMG, the statistics made my head go poof!

 

[Aestu]

Lol.... Wow, so authoritative! OMG, the statistics made my head go poof!

Do you disagree with the basic claim being made?

Why not drop these people in Pakistan?

 

[Silverblaze]

The republicans are taking full advantage of this situation. The more Donal trump and ted cruz get popular, more of this will happen.

Do you disagree with the basic claim being made?

Why not drop these people in Pakistan?

Well pakistan is not supporting rebels and is no way involved in Syria.

 

[Aestu]

Well pakistan is not supporting rebels and is no way involved in Syria.

So your claim is that these people should become citizens of the country that you think is conspiring to destroy them?

 

[Jacob Martin]

Also, it is fitting to be bringing this topic up at this time, if the cases of hate and bigotry are rising now, then it means a lot of people are playing right into the hands of the terrorists and their will to further their whole 'clash of civilisations' agenda. I'd congratulate you personally too.

While I do agree that such incidents shouldn't happen, but I also surely hope that having lived in the West and learned such nice terms like bigotry, you make a point of raising awareness levels when you go back home during holidays. Most Islamic countries need serious education on how to treat minorities. Wouldn't be very fair if the remaining world was purged of bigotry and it only thrived in the Islamic world, would it?

 

[Silverblaze]

So your claim is that these people should become citizens of the country that you think is conspiring to destroy them?

Is US conspiring to destroy them? And we all thought US was helping out the democratic forces.

Its US thats supporting Anti Assad forces along with the thanksgiving Turkey. Hence, if people are displaced by virtue of this generous support, one can't really hold pakistan responsible.