Ilya Kramnik Russian military expert call Pakistan potential buyer of SU35

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

Any 5th Gen jet is at least 10 years away from being getting IOC in PAF and in current evolving situation in which CPEC have created new burden of security mostly on PAF & PN because India have potent Air and Sea options available to harm it therefore PAF & PN need equipment which can complement each other and Su-35 bring many capabilities for both.

For example in one scenario if PN's P-3s are on long range long endurance mission and flying around Gulf of Aden where IN's CBG is deployed to block ships coming to Pakistan who will protect them from Mig-29Ks?? JF-17s are not sufficient for this type of mission even if you use refuelers and CFTs because JF-17 will not be able to carry required payload and it will be very expensive to operate like that.

Therefore a jet like Su-35/J-11B is a must have for PAF not just to support PN & PA but to fulfill their task more effectively. Its not about cost its about what it brings to you.

bro. it's the best post of this thread , both sensible & logical , summing almost everything related & relevant to the issue ...

Why there is a cost excuse from P.a.f. every time especially when they have to acquire some new jet to make some balance with the already huge iaf equpped with more quality & quantity ...

suppose , if somehow our airforce suffers heavy losses or our f-16s (which our airforce so blindly relies on) gets compromised i.e. shot down during war with india then who will take the criminal responsibiity of their strategic blunder ... ?!

 

[Super Falcon]

65 mil for a fighter jet 4.5 generation best fighter jet in entire world other than F 22 and T50 it is cheap for me and guranted air superiority over Rafale SU 30 and Mirage

 

[Caprxl]

If the military hadn't poke their nose into matter in 1998, Pakistan could be there in 2005, compared to today.

Yeah if the Bald heads had enough brains and had they also not poke their noses not just in 1998 but several times before that too,
A clap sounds always from 2 hands, always these pathetic politicians did something too give excuse / way / reason to be kicked in their backs.

 

[Viper0011.]

Yeah if the Bald heads had enough brains and had they also not poke their noses not just in 1998 but several times before that too,.

Well, instead of arguing like a 10 year old, how about you realize that the military doesn't kick the civilian leadership in their gut. The Army Chief, SERVER at the PLEASURE of the ELECTED PREMIER. The SOON people like you put this in their head and wash their brains with the Army-Cola your nation has been forced to drink for the past 70 years, without progress, the better it is for your country.

Sooner or later, the rule and land of the law will be imposed, which is what I described above. The "adventurists" like the Shuja Pasha, Mushy and Zaheer's of the world, if they don't quit, half the Pakistan will be an occupied extension of India, the remainder will be cut between extended FATA and Iran. Your military has lost the real parity with India a few years ago in all aspects, besides the nuclear option. And that isn't easy for Pakistan either as you'll no longer exist.

So there is a reason why the Army Chief has given his assurance to NS and has taken a promise from him to grow the country and that would help the nation. More than anyone, it would help the military as it would have funds to go buy advanced conventional weapons in quantity needed to keep India at bay. Otherwise, India will involve Pakistan in conflict and a few times after, you'll see the results.

So the moral of the story is, people elected a system and their officials whether you and ten other people agree with them or not. Those elected officials, have been at work, the progress of all the good work is visible throughout the globe (the following two links should tell you how much international visibility and investments are going to come to Pakistan). So either you all follow the process, or continue to fight between yourself like you always have, broken in politics, families, tribes and sects and one day, you'll have a holly shiit moment when there won't be a Pakistan your forefather bled for........so either stay on this sad course and mentality, or DO YOUR JOB to support your country like the Indians do, support your system and let your country grow to new heights!!! That's what life's about. You guys from Pakistan have so much fake ego, its unbelievable.

These were from yesterday, should tell you the entire globe knows Pakistan's system is working and they want to come invest in too:

Pakistan: The Next Colombia Success Story? - Forbes

Pakistan's Japanese-dominated car market poised for new entrants - Pakistan - DAWN.COM

 

[MAJESTICAL]

Any 5th Gen jet is at least 10 years away from being getting IOC in PAF and in current evolving situation in which CPEC have created new burden of security mostly on PAF & PN because India have potent Air and Sea options available to harm it therefore PAF & PN need equipment which can complement each other and Su-35 bring many capabilities for both.

For example in one scenario if PN's P-3s are on long range long endurance mission and flying around Gulf of Aden where IN's CBG is deployed to block ships coming to Pakistan who will protect them from Mig-29Ks?? JF-17s are not sufficient for this type of mission even if you use refuelers and CFTs because JF-17 will not be able to carry required payload and it will be very expensive to operate like that.

Therefore a jet like Su-35/J-11B is a must have for PAF not just to support PN & PA but to fulfill their task more effectively. Its not about cost its about what it brings to you.

I admire your knowledge on the situation and your right it needs minimum 8-10 years for PAF/PN to have any Fifth-generation aircraft and the best option for PAF/PN is Chinese Shenyang J-31/FC-31 as it needs more advancements to become a True Fifth-generation Aircraft and it needs time to do that...

Your right again that PAF/PN faces risks as IAF & IN is advancing and has superior fighters to face PAF/PN and we cant face them tough with our F-16s, JF-17s and other old fighters and PAF & PN cant wait for 10 years as it faces risk to its waters and enemy advances.In the meanwhile PAF/PN therefore can get few Su-35 it will be enough potent to counter enemy threats...
Its easy PAF's JF-17 cant counter IAF's Mig-27 effectively and your right it will be too expensive to refuel it while on a mission and Jf-17 dosent have enough payload which is required...

I think PAF/PN should go for Russian Su-35 but they can go for Chinese J-11B as it is cheaper, easy to maintain and also fulfils the void which is badly required.J-11B can be compared to the Russian Su-35, it comes with some Advanced Chinese Technology and we can buy it easily from China on soft conditions.

 

[Chanakyaa]

Do not think the cost is $100 mil... If that was the case then PAF would have gone straight to Britain and bought the EFT or F-18 growlers as they are estimated to have a fly away cost of $75-80 mil per plane.

The Cost of Su-35 would be some where from $50-60 mil per plane. hence PAF is going for them.
Do not worry about Pakistan's economy we are going to eat grass but still have a strong military.

Did u know that the present cost of MKI is Close to $100 Mil Each ?

It doesn't cost $ 100 million a plane. You need to learn the real price tag before opening up your mouth silly.

40 SU-35's would cost Pakistan $ 60-75 million a piece with ALL infrastructure setup and all. Over 3-4 years, (time it would take to deliver these), its like $ 800-850 million a year. Pakistan's economy is moving in the right direction and fast. They have over $ 18 billion in their savings account, which by 2018 is expected to cross over $ 20 billion, even with a defense spending increase of about 10-15%. I am SURE they can afford these.

By the end of 2018 or in 2019, Pakistan's defense budget is estimated to be close or equal to that of Turkey ($ 16-18 billion). So spending $ 2 billion on new jets, isn't a big deal. They are also buying FC-31 from China too and some more used -16's and JFT Block III

The Pakistan you knew till 2012, isn't the Pakistan you are dealing with today. Today's Pakistan is going to be one of the top 10-15th largest economies over the next decade or so. Pakistan today is where India was back in 1998. Getting into a HUGE tech and economy boom. If the military hadn't poke their nose into matter in 1998, Pakistan could be there in 2005, compared to today. So she lost a full decade plus, but its never too late.

With 60 Million You cant even Buy a F16 Blk 60 or a F18 SH leave Aside MKI which costs $80 Million + and You are Stupid enough to say that you would get Su-35 for 60 Million.

Which Cost ? Just FlyAway ? or the Weapons Included ?
Even F 35 Costs $75 Million... But hey.. We heard its price was $175.... !

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Did u know that the present cost of MKI is Close to $100 Mil Each ?

Agreed that it costs $ 100 Mil each but do you know that SU-30 MKI is only produced and operated by INDIA alone. Hence it could have a higher price tag because it is not produced in a very large quantity. Though this aircraft is similar to Su-30 but not 100% same. The deal of MKI's was also one where the Russian's were not intending to sell the Russian fighters manufactured to protect Mother Land Russia. It is also possible that Sukhoi company had to increase the price in order to get the deal go through so that they could protect the company from going burst.

The F-18 that were offered to India in MMRCA were at the price that was half to MKI but this was 10 or so years back. Hence one could say that the price would have increased to $70 Mil by now and this would be fly away cost leaving some room to bargain.

 

[Super Falcon]

India is very easy to make fool of seeling lowe jet higer price

 

[CHI RULES]

What does J-10B bring on table that an MLU F-16 doesn't? Save for sanctions protection.

J10 b can bring AESA, IRST and higher service ceiling, which are so far lacked by PAF.

 

[Viper0011.]

Did u know that the present cost of MKI is Close to $100 Mil Each ?

With 60 Million You cant even Buy a F16 Blk 60 or a F18 SH leave Aside MKI which costs $80 Million + and You are Stupid enough to say that you would get Su-35 for 60 Million.

Which Cost ? Just FlyAway ? or the Weapons Included ?
Even F 35 Costs $75 Million... But hey.. We heard its price was $175.... !

If you are paying $ 100 million for your MKI (With serious maintenance and other platform management issues), you are wasting money. Go buy Rafale.
Second, I don't know your background, but your post above is filled with silliness that doesn't come from a person knowing this business. I suggest you ask someone on here to correct you as there was way too many things stated incorrectly. A senior Indian member might help you understand those. I don't have patience for stupidity. Fan boy is one thing, learning is another and calling others with actual knowledge "stupid" just because they didn't speak in favor of India and spoke the reality, is an entirely different thing. So how about you have one of your Indian brothers help you understand how fukking stupid the post sounds, and let me know.
I used the word stupid in response to yours. Had you remained civil, this wasn't needed

 

[Blue Marlin]

If you are paying $ 100 million for your MKI (With serious maintenance and other platform management issues), you are wasting money. Go buy Rafale.
Second, I don't know your background, but your post above is filled with silliness that doesn't come from a person knowing this business. I suggest you ask someone on here to correct you as there was way too many things stated incorrectly. A senior Indian member might help you understand those. I don't have patience for stupidity. Fan boy is one thing, learning is another and calling others with actual knowledge "stupid" just because they didn't speak in favor of India and spoke the reality, is an entirely different thing. So how about you have one of your Indian brothers help you understand how fukking stupid the post sounds, and let me know.
I used the word stupid in response to yours. Had you remained civil, this wasn't needed

what you say at front value sounds good, but if you dig deeper in to the specifics of the deal you will find both options are just as bad.

firstly with the mki.
the mki is plagued with problems which primarily relates to manufacture quality, maintenance, and serviceability.
first with manufacture quality, it's quite known that HAL can't make a good quality licensed jet? this is because hal is in inexperienced in building "advanced" jets. this is proven when one of their mki's crashed in 04/13 which was caused by failure in the fly by wire system, another jet crashed of the same fault in 12/11.
now if you think if the Malaysian mkm is exactly the same as the mki, only difference being the avionics, and the mkm is made in russia, then it begs to ask, why are indian jets having problems and the Russian jets are not having problems?

maintenance and serviceability . firstly with the engines. when ever an engine needs to be repaired or upgraded it needs to be sent to russia, as india can not undertake such work, this automatically increases maintenance and downtime,Russian jets naturally need a lot more work to keep them air worthy, as compared to their european and american counter parts, with one or two exceptions. from my research these jets have been given the tittle of hanger queen. and i have been told that only 50% of all su30mki india has are operational. they say its going to be 70% in a few years.

now with the rafale,
india choose the rafale, with the agreement that 126 jets at $12 billion at $95 million each will be purchased. but by the time changes in some of the systems were swapped with Israeli systems and changes to the specifications that price went up to $20 billion. that works out to be around $159 million each. then there was the problem of manufacturer quality from HAL who will be building the jet. Dassault said they will only give guidance on building the jet but will not responsible if something should accrue. but india wanted Dassault to take responsibility for their jets they will be building.
so the combination of price and no guarantee on quality meant it was to risky to sign for such as deal. and now an order for 36 of the shelf jets is in negotiations.
now speaking to some analysts they think this order of 36 jets may be the first of a block order. as dealing with a smaller number of jets is easy to manage. so orders for more rafales is very likely. the last option of block ordering seems to be the best and viable option for india.

 

[waz]

I don't know wether to keep the topic open as there are some great contributions in here, or close it, because the news is just hearsay.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I don't know wether to keep the topic open as there are some great contributions in here, or close it, because the news is just hearsay.

i say close it, the news of Pakistan buying su35 was meant to push india into buying it , thats all.

 

[vine]

Hey all. Am new user here. Have been following defense blogs and sites for a long time and finally thought of creating an ID here.
So regarding russia selling SU-35 to PAK.. its a possibility because russia need to do business and they will do business with anyone if they get money for that. Pak having the money or not is secondary.
since india has moved on from.soly depending on russia and started make in india program and opted to get hardwares from U.S israel france and other nations russia need to find a new business partner and its a move from russia to counter indias decision to depnd on other countries.
russia want india to understand that if u reduce dependncy on us.we wil supply pak with latest tech.
Thats why india scrapped mmrca and got just 36 jets from france and planning for another 90 jets to be made in india by calling in a fresh tender. i think thats a move to keep russia happy and most probably mig35 might win that tender.
Its just all part and parcel of business .no body is buddy here..

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

There is an issue ... India is interested to reopen the tender hence it is about time PAF makes a right choice and chooses some thing that it wants...

At the moment all gets are open...EFT,Rafale, Su-35, Mig-35, Saab, etc...

I don't know wether to keep the topic open as there are some great contributions in here, or close it, because the news is just hearsay.

Hearsay? really ...