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Illusion of victory: In the eyes of the media (September 1965)

I am no Pakistani joker but you are obviously an Indian idiot and a complete one at that.
Now let me burst your Bharti bubble that's just full of hot air.


And if you have problem digesting that, here is a picture to lighten up your dark mind , which is nothing but the victim of your own propaganda machinery.

attachment.php
post the link.. the 1971 indo pak war officially ended in dec. 16. there was no air war on dec. 17.
 
You wanted to capture Kashmir, we wanted to defend Kashmir, the war resulted into a stalemate.....that means you failed to capture Kashmir, and we were successful in defending Kashmir. Which part of it is difficult to understand?

You also wanted to capture Lahore and Sialkot. You ended up failing in both. You also ended up giving back Haji pir pass. You also lost territory in Sindh sector. You also get decimated in the aerial warfare. Victory??? Yeah lol. :lol:
 
not city, but the police station was captured by indian forces.
Brig.Hari_Singh_at_Barkee_Capture.jpg


really:o:
Air incapability, Air denial, Air parity, Air superiority, Air supremacy, which one PAF successfully done over indian air space??? none. of them.
leave indian air space, PAF was unable to attain air denial over their own air space. pakistan was under constant attack by indian AF till the end of the war.
Barkee is in Lahore District not the Lahore city itself. It's about 9 km south east from Lahore. You guys were stopped here couldn't capture anything of Lahore.
 
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You also wanted to capture Lahore and Sialkot. You ended up failing in both. You also ended up giving back Haji pir pass. You also lost territory in Sindh sector. You also get decimated in the aerial warfare. Victory??? Yeah lol. :lol:

You lost more territory, check again, and in some cases our negotiators failed, not our army. And the three directional attack was a strategic move to divert your concentrated attack in Kashmir. Lahore and Sialkot ka hum kya achar dalta? Your "Victory day" is your army's attempt to fool the citizen and keep on consuming half of your country's resources. Now that you are educated in pdf, you should spread the awareness among common people in Pakistan. :)
 
Pakistan in its infinite wisdom had left Lahore completely undefended. India, once is entered Lahore District - was shocked. They thought they were walking into a trap, so they slowed their own progress. Anyhow, no point beating a dead horse. Pakistan has been celebrating this day for 50 years - I guess they just can't believe the opposite side is also going to celebrate the same day.
 
You lost more territory, check again,

Losing territory doesn't matter. At the end of the day we had enough of your territory to get back whatever we lost. And your negotiators didn't let you down. They had to give concessions since they were supposed to get something in return. It is simple logic. It wasn't like your negotiators were cowards or traitors who sold themselves to Pakistan as gullible Indians foolishly think. It was because Indian victory in 65 war is a farce which lead to negotiations go in Pakistan's favor.
 
You also wanted to capture Lahore and Sialkot. You ended up failing in both. You also ended up giving back Haji pir pass. You also lost territory in Sindh sector. You also get decimated in the aerial warfare. Victory??? Yeah lol. :lol:
You forget to mention Dhawarka bombing...even failure at sea..Indian navy fails to protect it shores.

Operation Dwarka
Date 7 September 1965
Location Dwarka, Jamnagar district, Gujarat, India
Result Decisive Pakistani victory; Dwarka Listening Post and Naval Air Station destroyed
Operation Dwarka - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Belligerents
Pakistan

Pakistan Navy
India

22px-Naval_Ensign_of_India.svg.png
Indian Navy
Commanders and leaders
Commodore S.M. Anwar Rear Admiral K.P. Samson[citation needed]
Units involved
25th Destroyer Squadron
Strength
PNS Babur
PNS Khaibar
PNS Badr
PNS Jahangir
PNS Shah Jahan
PNS Alamgir
PNS Tippu Sultan
PNS Ghazi Unknown
(Ships were kept at bay)
Casualties and losses
None 49 killed,Partial physical damage to Dwarka city, Indian Naval Listening Post Destroyed, Naval Air Station rendered ineffective.[1]
 
Pakistan in its infinite wisdom had left Lahore completely undefended. India, once is entered Lahore District - was shocked. They thought they were walking into a trap, so they slowed their own progress. Anyhow, no point beating a dead horse. Pakistan has been celebrating this day for 50 years - I guess they just can't believe the opposite side is also going to celebrate the same day.

Nope Pakistan didn't let Lahore undefended. All the area up to the Wagah border is part of Lahore district. Once you cross international border and put your foot on the Pakistani territory it is the Lahore district. It was actually strong defense of Pakistan that slowed India down and it was because of strong defense that you couldn't move beyond Barkee till the end of war.

And we know you celebrate 65 war as victory. And we laugh at it too. :)
 
Nope Pakistan didn't let Lahore undefended. All the area up to the Wagah border is part of Lahore district. Once you cross international border and put your foot on the Pakistani territory it is the Lahore district. It was actually strong defense of Pakistan that slowed India down and it was because of strong defense that you couldn't move beyond Barkee till the end of war.

And we know you celebrate 65 war as victory. And we laugh at it too. :)
If India won 1965 war then why Indira Ghandi commented on 1971 ke hamne 48 aor 65 ka badla ley liya...
 
Ayub Khan missed the opportunity of occupying Kashmir when Bharat was badly defeated by China. That was a golden opportunity to occupy Kashmir but Ayub had no sense of availing the opportunity.

Overall war was stalemate. However, the battles fought at Lahore and Sialkot had victories for Pakistan.
 
For some real perspective:

Let's hear from these gentlemen:

Air Chief Marshal: Asghar Khan
Air Chief Marshal: Nur Khan
Brig (Retd) Saeed Ismat
Major (Retd.) Agha Humayun Amin
Col. S.G Mehd (SSG Commander)



What do you have to say about 1965 war?

If you were to ask me this question when I was a young officer, my reply would have been quite different because I fought in that war, saw tactical action and in my perception we did well and beat back the aggressor and won the war. As one matures, learns and has the ability to analyze, one begins to differentiate between myth and reality, of course, with the advantage of the hindsight. 1965 War manifested the shortsightedness and immaturity of our political and military leadership. Pakistan started with ‘Operation Gibraltar’ in Kashmir. We have been made to think it was very bold and imaginative in conception and prepared by a great General. In my opinion it was bold, unimaginative, unpracticable plan. It was not in harmony with prevailing environment in Indian Held Kashmir. It was based on dangerous assumptions and its time frame was unrealistic and quixotic. The plan reflected strategic naivety and immaturity. To top it all the preparation and subsequently the execution displayed lack of professionalism. Since it lacked politico-strategic framework and vision it placed Pakistan in a very precarious position. On its failure, ‘Operation Grandslam’ was launched, which did make military sense since it enjoyed the superiority of strategic orientation. The capture of objective (Akhnur Bridges) would sever the Indian lines of communication in Kashmir and force them to retract. This operation was to suffer a major setback when the advance was halted because of an explainable change of command in the middle of the battle. Indians were so threatened by this move that they attacked with full might across the international border threatening Lahore and Sialkot. Our leaders panicked, ‘Operation Grandslam’ was brought to a grinding halt. Later, a brilliantly conceived Riposte from Khem Karan failed because a correct mix of units was not mustered to achieve a superior relative strength situation at the right time at the right place. We won a lot of battles but lost the war as we failed to attain the political aim of defreezing and the ultimate liberation of the Kashmir. Ayub Khan thus ruined the national economy by one wrong decision that had taken him several years to build.

Brig (Retd) Saeed Ismat, SJ

Cover Story


This in short is Nur Khan’s version of 1965 war, which he calls an unnecessary war and says that President Ayub for whom he has the greatest regard should have held his senior generals accountable for the debacle and himself resigned.

This would have held the hands of the adventurers who followed Gen Ayub. Since the 1965 war was based on a big lie and was presented to the nation a great victory, the Army came to believe its own fiction and has used since, Ayub as its role model and therefore has continued to fight unwanted wars — the 1971 war and the Kargil fiasco in 1999, he said.

In each of the subsequent wars we have committed the same mistakes that we committed in 1965.

Air Marshal Khan demanded that a truth commission formed to find out why we failed in all our military adventures. It is not punishment of the failed leadership that should be the aim of the commission but sifting of facts from fiction and laying bare the follies and foibles of the irresponsible leaders in matters with grave implications for the nation. It should also point out the irregularities committed in training and promotions in the defence forces in the past so that it is not repeated in future


Nur Khan reminisces ’65 war - Newspaper - DAWN.COM


Excerpt From the conclusion:
Major (Retd.) Agha Humayun Amin:
Ambition, lust for glory etc are perfectly reasonable aspirations where they are matched with military talent pertaining to operational strategy, low intensity operations, strategic insight or statesmanship! All these were sadly lacking at all levels, except unit level bravery and enthusiasm! Gibraltar failed because of pure and unadulterated military incompetence and Akhtar Malik bears the principle responsibility for Gibraltar! The Grand Slam story was different!It wasnot a case ofbalanced distribution of lack of talent at all levels that resulted in the failure of Grand Slam! The principle reason why Grand Slam failed was delay in initial launching and change of command!


Grand Slam - A Battle of Lost Opportunities




this is your Air Chief Marshal Asghar Khan.


Some of Col. S.G Mehdi wisdom.

Conclusion by SSG’s commander: “Had our Government initiated a probe into concept, conduct and consequences of 1965 War’, and raised the curtain from the acts of gross omission or that of the criminal commission, the ignominy of 1971 could have been avoided. “

1965 War — Some Harsh Realities | Ehtisham Siddiqui
 
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