If there is a war between China - Viet Nam in SCS

[Icecreamcart]

Maybe you just simply compared them on quantity, not compare them on quality.

I suspect that PLA now cannot even compare to U.S army in 1970s.
Moreover, U.S army has many experience war, while China's army has nothing.
Until 1979 - 1980s, PLA was still humiliated by the girls of Vietnamese militia force....

For experience, Vietnam hasn't had recent experience in modern warfare either. Right now, the most important measurement is the relative capabilities between the navy and air force of both nations, as these are the most crucial factors in any SCS skirmish or war. I don't see either Vietnam nor China enjoying a decisive advantage in terms of experience in naval or aerial combat. It'll be the numbers that matter in the end.

Regarding the comparison, if you're matching the 2012 Chinese military against the 1990 US military, current technological upgrades to vehicles and weaponry do play a role as a force multiplier. But like I said, it's probably a meaningless comparison.

 

[gambit]

Perhaps it's not a fair comparison if we match two different militaries in different decades. However, it wouldn't be too wrong to say current Chinese military technologies and capabilities is a match against the 1990 US military, barring the US carrier groups' power projection, of course. In the case of Vietnam, there's not much need for carriers anyway.

It is still absurd. What you are doing is cherry picking certain individual parity and extrapolating to the whole. Is the individual PLA trooper armed equivalent to the individual US Army trooper? Yes, so that mean both militaries are the same.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

For experience, Vietnam hasn't had recent experience in modern warfare either. Right now, the most important measurement is the relative capabilities between the navy and air force of both nations, as these are the most crucial factors in any SCS skirmish or war. I don't see either Vietnam nor China enjoying a decisive advantage in terms of experience in naval or aerial combat. It'll be the numbers that matter in the end.

Regarding the comparison, if you're matching the 2012 Chinese military against the 1990 US military, current technological upgrades to vehicles and weaponry do play a role as a force multiplier. But like I said, it's probably a meaningless comparison.

I dont mean to compare between army of China and Vietnam.

The story here is that compares between U.S Army and PLA.

As you can see, in 1970s U.S army used many aircraft carriers, bombers B-52 ... they are capable of fighting in far away places from the U.S for a long time ...

Currently, PLA is capable like that?

 

[Snomannen]

It means that Nam Viet was invaded and occupied by third party until 10th Century.
Like Mongolia was invaded by Qing until 1911.
In conclusion: Mongolian people are Chinese is as same as how Nam Viet people are Vietnamese Mongolia came from outside China today and occupied Song (ancestor of China today). Nam Viet came from outside of Vietnam today and occupied Au Lac (ancestor of Vietnam today).

You just said that [People of Nam Viet are all died or Han-ized, so as to their leaders],
doubtless, NamViet belongs to China, not Vietnamese. Chinese has the right to claim, not you.
Song, Mongolia, Jing etc were all ancestors of China, since their posterity are all Chinese.
Au Lac was the only ancestor of Vietnam, since they don't own NamViet.

Nam Viet - Mongolia
Vietnamese - Chinese

The correct metaphor is:

Nam Viet - Mongolian
Vietnamese - Khalkha

China owns Nam Viet is the same as how Mongolia own Yuan.
Then Vietnam can't claim Nam Viet, like China can't claim Mongolia.

China owns NamViet because Chinese posterity owns it.
Vietnam can't claim NamViet because nobody in Vietnam owns it.
But China can claim "Mongolian history" (not "lands", you always mistake this), why?
The answer is so simple, because Mongolian are Chinese:
Half of the Mongolian are Chinese;
The Golden Family (direct posterity of Genghis Khan)are Chinese;
The cradle of Mongolian is in Chinese land;
Chinese Mongolian has pure culture compare with Khalkha Mongolian the "traitors".

Do you really think that people (Khalkha) of the modern country named "Mongolia", has the right to claim China from the direct posterity of Genghis Khan and more than half percentage of Mongolian in the world?

Can England today claim Normandy as their lands? No. So, Vietnam can't claim Guangdong, Guangxi and China can't claim Mongolia.

as I have said above, it's not related to "lands" that much.




And here are some additional information:

Qing Taizong built the Qing Dynasty in the name of the "Generations Imperial Yuxi";

Emperor Kangxi called himself "the Great Emperor of China" to the Tsarist Russia.

Emperor Yongzheng considered Manchuria as one of "China's Hometown （籍貫）",
he also compared Manchu people with Dongyi 東夷and Xiyi 西夷;

Emperor Qianlong said "China will never be vanished";

Emperor Guangxu said " We朕 want to save China, We would give up the throne if there are ways to save our people（朕但欲救中國耳，若能救民，則朕雖無權何礙）"

Manchu people states the Twenty-Four Histories as their official history;

The Testament of the Kangxi Emperor mentioned that [our posterity must inherit and learn from the legacy of the martyrs Han emperor and Zhu Yuanzhang].

In the three Royal temples, emperors from former dynasties have the same specifications of worship with the Qing emperors.

 

[Icecreamcart]

It is still absurd. What you are doing is cherry picking certain individual parity and extrapolating to the whole. Is the individual PLA trooper armed equivalent to the individual US Army trooper? Yes, so that mean both militaries are the same.

I believe I made that statement in response to the idea that China will struggle to defeat? Vietnam from extrapolating the past performance of the PLA in the Sino-Vietnamese war. I was simply suggesting that 30 years of focused military modernization, quickened following the Gulf War, would heavily skew that prediction and that the current Chinese military is closer to the 1990s US military rather than the PLA which came out of the Cultural Revolution.

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

You just said that [People of Nam Viet are all died or Han-ized, so as to their leaders],
doubtless, NamViet belongs to China, not Vietnamese. Chinese has the right to claim, not you.

I totally agree with that.

Song, Mongolia, Jing etc were all ancestors of China, since their posterity are all Chinese.

Song is definitely Chinese. Jing is still consider due to many points of view, but generally, yes.
But Mongolia, come on, just like Nam Viet They came from outside of China today, then conquered the whole China today (with some other places). Maybe Mongolian have some familiar origin with Chinese, but you know Nam Viet is in Bach Viet (Baiyue), so as to Au Lac, then maybe Nam Viet have some familiar origin with Vietnamese too

Au Lac was the only ancestor of Vietnam, since they don't own NamViet.

I totally agree with that. Then Song (maybe Jing too?) were the only ancestors of China, since they don't own Mongolia.

The correct metaphor is:
Nam Viet - Mongolian
Vietnamese - Khalkha

No, it's definitely:
Nam Viet - Mongolia
Vietnamese - Chinese

China owns NamViet because Chinese posterity owns it.
Vietnam can't claim NamViet because nobody in Vietnam owns it.
But China can claim "Mongolian history" (not "lands", you always mistake this), why?
The answer is so simple, because Mongolian are Chinese:
1)Half of the Mongolian are Chinese;
2)The Golden Family (direct posterity of Genghis Khan)are Chinese;
3)The cradle of Mongolian is in Chinese land;
4)Chinese Mongolian has pure culture compare with Khalkha Mongolian the "traitors".

1) Most of Nam Viet people are Viet ethnics, a lot of them are Au Lac people (such as Lu Gia, the most famous official in Nam Viet dynasty). Only Trieu Da and his family are Han Chinese
2) Really? Can't see any relation with Han Chinese: Family tree of Genghis Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But never heard of Catherine the Great? She is a Russia's Empress and a German Definitely Germany don't have anything to do with Russia history.
3) Come on, Mongolia live out of the Great Wall!
4) Nam Viet people used Viet culture too Even Trieu Da was criticized by Han ambassador because he was completely Viet-ized and forgot all Han's rites

Do you really think that people (Khalkha) of the modern country named "Mongolia", has the right to claim China from the direct posterity of Genghis Khan and more than half percentage of Mongolian in the world?

Of course, No. As same as China can't claim Vietnam because of the Nam Viet

As I have said above, it's not related to "lands" that much.

Oops, if you don't use Mongolia to ask for lands, then free the Tibetan, Uyghurs, Inner Mongolian

 

[Snomannen]

Song is definitely Chinese. Jing is still consider due to many points of view, but generally, yes.

Of course Song is Chinese, so is Jing, no doubt at all.

But Mongolia, come on, just like Nam Viet They came from outside of China today, then conquered the whole China today (with some other places). Maybe Mongolian have some familiar origin with Chinese, but you know Nam Viet is in Bach Viet (Baiyue), so as to Au Lac, then maybe Nam Viet have some familiar origin with Vietnamese too

Mughal emperor came from outside of India today, but Mughal is still India;
William the French came from outside of England today, but Norman dynasty is still England.

As I said, more than half of the Mongolian in the world are Chinese, including the one-and-only Golden Family (and you said, "maybe they have familiar origin").

I totally agree with that. Then Song (maybe Jing too?) were the only ancestors of China, since they don't own Mongolia.

Song, Jing, Mongolia etc were of course ancestors of Chinese ethnic groups (Chinese) such as Han, Tibetan, Mongolian...

No, it's definitely:
Nam Viet - Mongolia
Vietnamese - Chinese

Definitely:
Nam Viet - Inner Mongolian (Chinese)
Vietnamese - Khalkha, those were not even Mongolian in the past, and underlings of Mongolian, vainly trying to on behalf of Inner Mongolian (Chinese) the Golden Family.

1) Most of Nam Viet people are Viet ethnics, a lot of them are Au Lac people (such as Lu Gia, the most famous official in Nam Viet dynasty). Only Trieu Da and his family are Han Chinese
2) Really? Can't see any relation with Han Chinese: Family tree of Genghis Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But never heard of Catherine the Great? She is a Russia's Empress and a German Definitely Germany don't have anything to do with Russia history.
3) Come on, Mongolia live out of the Great Wall!
4) Nam Viet people used Viet culture too Even Trieu Da was criticized by Han ambassador because he was completely Viet-ized and forgot all Han's rites

1. Where are their posterity now, what are they standing for. The answer is Chinese and China, just like most of the Mongolian in the world.
2. Why are you trying to have everything related to Han. China is never a country established by Han only. China is established by Manchu, Mogal, Han, and other ethnics. Please don't use the fact in Vietnam [Au Lac was the only ancestor of Vietnam] as an own opinion compare with every countries. It is too narrow.
Yes thank you for reminding Catherine the Great, who was born from German and this is the only thing relate to Germany.
She was a Russian Empress, just like Yuan Emperors were Chinese Emperors. The Modern so-called "Macedonia" can never claims the Greek, Alexandra the Great.
3. The cradle of Mongolian, Hulunbeier, is, and was (Mongolian) Chinese lands. Yeah the GW, and then?
4. Southerners of China use Viet (粵/&#36234 culture too, Vietnam doesn't own the whole ancient Viet (粵/&#36234 culture.

And I just remember the root of the Baiyue culture (百&#36234 separated from the South-East of China.

So it is definitely:
Baiyue - Inner Mongolian (Chinese)
Vietnamese "Viet 越" - Khalkha

Of course, No. As same as China can't claim Vietnam because of the Nam Viet

Finally you admit that Khalkha Mongolia (Outer Mongolia) has no right to claim China. But you make a mistake, your sentence should be
As same as Vietnam can't claim China because of the NamViet.

Oops, if you don't use Mongolia to ask for lands, then free the Tibetan, Uyghurs, Inner Mongolian

What makes you think that I'm asking for lands here, and
how to ask for and free the lands you and your family already own.


-------------







Here, I'm telling you a secret.
In fact, China had already been extincted thousands years ago,
Remember Shang Dynasty? Shang people had different language, culture, clothing and religion from the different ethnic, Zhou. However, after the Battle of Muye, Zhou conquered the whole Shang and established Zhou Dynasty. China was actually not existed since the year 1046BC. Wait, how about Xia Dynasty which was conquered by Zhou. Zhou people also had different language, culture, clothing and religion from Xia. So basically, China was extincted even earlier than 1046BC.

I write this according to your concept and logic.

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

Mughal emperor came from outside of India today, but Mughal is still India;
William the French came from outside of England today, but Norman dynasty is still England

LOL so Nam Viet is still Viet Nam

As I said, more than half of the Mongolian in the world are Chinese, including the one-and-only Golden Family (and you said, "maybe they have familiar origin").

Mongolian are Chinese? So Nam Viet people are Vietnamese, right? Don't you think that Nam Viet people are ... Han?

Song, Jing, Mongolia etc were of course ancestors of Chinese ethnic groups (Chinese) such as Han, Tibetan, Mongolian...

Song, Jing: of course.
Mongolia, Tibet: lol they were invaded by Qing dynasty so they are Chinese?

Definitely:
Nam Viet - Inner Mongolian (Chinese)
Vietnamese - Khalkha, those were not even Mongolian in the past, and underlings of Mongolian, vainly trying to on behalf of Inner Mongolian (Chinese) the Golden Family.

No sense at all
Nam Viet is outside of Vietnam today, and Inner Mongolia is inside China today. Totally different.

1. Where are their posterity now, what are they standing for. The answer is Chinese and China, just like most of the Mongolian in the world.

LOL so Mongol's posterity now is Mongolian and Mongolia

2. Why are you trying to have everything related to Han. China is never a country established by Han only. China is established by Manchu, Mogal, Han, and other ethnics. Please don't use the fact in Vietnam [Au Lac was the only ancestor of Vietnam] as an own opinion compare with every countries. It is too narrow.
Yes thank you for reminding Catherine the Great, who was born from German and this is the only thing relate to Germany.
She was a Russian Empress, just like Yuan Emperors were Chinese Emperors. The Modern so-called "Macedonia" can never claims the Greek, Alexandra the Great.

Russia Empire can't do anything with German History, so China don't have anything to do with Mongolian History You have just admitted it.

3. The cradle of Mongolian, Hulunbeier, is, and was (Mongolian) Chinese lands. Yeah the GW, and then?

Inner Mongolia had just been invaded by Qing dynasty.
So if Vietnam invade a part of Guangdong (just example, I don't mean real invasion), so Nam Viet will be Vietnamese because the
cradle of Nam Viet people is, and was, in Vietnamese lands?

4. Southerners of China use Viet (粵/&#36234 culture too, Vietnam doesn't own the whole ancient Viet (粵/&#36234 culture.

LOL Southerners of China was Nam Viet people

And I just remember the root of the Baiyue culture (百&#36234 separated from the South-East of China.

Exactly Bach Viet (Baiyue) cultures are common in Northern Vietnam and Southern China. Remember that Southern China is not Chinese territory until Qin's invasion.

So it is definitely:
Baiyue - Inner Mongolian (Chinese)
Vietnamese "Viet 越" - Khalkha

Still make no sense.
Nam Viet - Mongolia
Viet Nam - China

Finally you admit that Khalkha Mongolia (Outer Mongolia) has no right to claim China. But you make a mistake, your sentence should be
As same as Vietnam can't claim China because of the NamViet.

That what I had told a long time ago Vietnam of course can't claim China because of the Nam Viet, the same as Chinese can't claim Mongolia because of the Yuan.

What makes you think that I'm asking for lands here, and
how to ask for and free the lands you and your family already own.

If it's not about lands, then why we are wasting time now

Here, I'm telling you a secret.
In fact, China had already been extincted thousands years ago,
Remember Shang Dynasty? Shang people had different language, culture, clothing and religion from the different ethnic, Zhou. However, after the Battle of Muye, Zhou conquered the whole Shang and established Zhou Dynasty. China was actually not existed since the year 1046BC. Wait, how about Xia Dynasty which was conquered by Zhou. Zhou people also had different language, culture, clothing and religion from Xia. So basically, China was extincted even earlier than 1046BC.

I write this according to your concept and logic.

It's really complicated. It has nothing related to my "concept and logic".
Remember that what I mean is: "If China can claim Mongolia because of the Mongol, Vietnam can claim Guangdong, Guangxi because of the Nam Viet". So the best solution is: don't claim Mongolia, and we won't claim Guangdong, Guangxi.

 

[Snomannen]

LOL so Nam Viet is still Viet Nam

Mongolian are Chinese? So Nam Viet people are Vietnamese, right? Don't you think that Nam Viet people are ... Han?

Nope, NamViet people are also Chinese, since China owns NamViet's history, not Vietnam.

Song, Jing: of course.
Mongolia, Tibet: lol they were invaded by Qing dynasty so they are Chinese?

They were Chinese because they belong to the Chinese ethnic groups.

No sense at all
Nam Viet is outside of Vietnam today, and Inner Mongolia is inside China today. Totally different.

It does, since Khalkha wants to on behalf of Inner Mongolian (Chinese) and you are now supporting them.
Khalkha claims China - Vietnam claims Namviet.

LOL so Mongol's posterity now is Mongolian and Mongolia

and China, which owns the Yuan Dynasty.

Russia Empire can't do anything with German History, so China don't have anything to do with Mongolian History You have just admitted it.

I admitted few of your concept, but this one you still got half percent right, let's correct it:
German can't do anything with Russian history, so Khalkha (a mistake to compare them with German since they were not even a part of the Mogolian family during the past) can't do anything to Chinese History.

Inner Mongolia had just been invaded by Qing dynasty.
So if Vietnam invade a part of Guangdong (just example, I don't mean real invasion), so Nam Viet will be Vietnamese because the
cradle of Nam Viet people is, and was, in Vietnamese lands?

Also Outer Mongolia, and it was not "invaded", but "Alliance" and "marriage" and "Vassal". After that they became one and together established the Republic of China (Since then [China 中國] has finally become a official country's name). However, one of the group in the Mongolian family, Khalkha, had betrayed the Republic and formed a country call "Mongolia" (Modern "Macedonia", same stories)

Good example, if Vietnam invade a part of Guangdong which is a province of the NamViet Republic (IF) an independent country established by Baiyue people, including the cradle of Baiyue, owns the "Golden Family", speak Baiyue language, write Hanzi in 粵 style, able to read my signature and success to please, owns half % of the NamViet people in the world. Then I will call you brother.

LOL Southerners of China was Nam Viet people

Yes they were.

Exactly Bach Viet (Baiyue) cultures are common in Northern Vietnam and Southern China. Remember that Southern China is not Chinese territory until Qin's invasion.

The root was in Southern China.
Bavaria is German territory before and after Prussia's invasion.

Still make no sense.
Nam Viet - Mongolia
Viet Nam - China

It does:

Baiyue - Inner Mongolian (Chinese)
Vietnamese "Viet 越" - traitor Khalkha

That what I had told a long time ago Vietnam of course can't claim China because of the Nam Viet, the same as Chinese can't claim Mongolia because of the Yuan.

Vietnam has no right to claim NamViet = Khalkha has no right to claim China.

If it's not about lands, then why we are wasting time now

You really love lands don't you~

It's really complicated. It has nothing related to my "concept and logic".
Remember that what I mean is: "If China can claim Mongolia because of the Mongol, Vietnam can claim Guangdong, Guangxi because of the Nam Viet". So the best solution is: don't claim Mongolia, and we won't claim Guangdong, Guangxi.

It's not that complicated, and it is exactly your concept and logic about "China", also you are still confusing Mongolia (in the history) from (Modern) Mongolia.

China considers Yuan Dynasty as a part of Chinese history because:
1. More than half % of Mongolian are Chinese;
2. Ethnic Mongolian were, are founders of China;
3. Golden Family;
4. Cradle
etc.
As for Vietnam to NamViet Kingdom?

In conclusion, even if someday the CCP goes totally crazy to claim Modern Mongolia, Vietnam still can't claim Guangdong and Guangxi, we still cannot into brothers.

 

[Snomannen]

Del post blah blah blah.

 

[EastSea]

Del post blah blah blah.

It seem you like to say about German and France in west. What do you think if Scotland will be independence country in future from Britain. When it will happen, why Inner Mongolia, Manchuria, Tibet, XinJiang Uigur and Nanyue can't do that ?

The Scottish independence referendum debate is once again in the headlines with the launch of the Better Together campaign, which is against the idea of Scotland going its own way.

The referendum on Scottish independence is expected to take place in the autumn of 2014.

BBC News - Q&A: Your Scottish independence questions

 

[oct605032048]

If Nanyue got independent, VN will have only north half left.

 

[Snomannen]

It seem you like to say about German and France in west. What do you think if Scotland will be independence country in future from Britain. When it will happen, why Inner Mongolia, Manchuria, Tibet, XinJiang Uigur and Nanyue can't do that ?

The Scottish independence referendum debate is once again in the headlines with the launch of the Better Together campaign, which is against the idea of Scotland going its own way.

The referendum on Scottish independence is expected to take place in the autumn of 2014.

BBC News - Q&A: Your Scottish independence questions

Why do you think Inner Mongolia, Manchuria, Tibet, XinJiang and Nanyue want to do that.
You love independence, y no free your Campadesa first.

 

[Rechoice]

If Nanyue got independent, VN will have only north half left.

if it to be done, Dongyue (Cantonese), Xiyue (Zhuang), Minyue (Fujian) should be independence states or join to Yuenam. Jiaozhou is still a north part of Yuenan.

 

[Korean]

How Viet nam going to re-act?

Invade the mainland, seize Nanning, then exchange Nanning for Spratlys. That was always the battle plan.