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If Kashmir blows up, all bets off: US

There you go! There's still hope that Kashmir may yet merge with Pakistan - assuming there will be a Pakistan around to merge into. For now, Pakistani efforts are best directed at preservation, don't you think? I would have thought the disaster of 1971 would have taught that by attempting to keep a grasp of everything at once, something is bound to go wrong...
See, leave it up to the Kashmiris... We won't do anything then. We won't have a need to do anything.

We can't help it if the Pakistani national anthem rings everywhere in Kashmir... The thing is, just because that happens it doesn't mean they would choose Pakistan. It just means they won't choose India.

Because Pakistanis support them either way. We know the Kashmiris won't be a threat to us, and if they want to run an independent country then they can.
 
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Yes we don't support Indian terrorists! Whether the uniformed ones in Kashmir or the ones wreaking havoc in the countries of our Allies!

the uniformed ones have been terrorizing pakistan since the inception of the Indian army..but that still wouldn't fit the description of their being labeled as 'terrorists'..
and sri lankan tamils are Indians because they are hindus right?
 
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See, leave it up to the Kashmiris... We won't do anything then. We won't have a need to do anything.

We can't help it if the Pakistani national anthem rings everywhere in Kashmir... The thing is, just because that happens it doesn't mean they would choose Pakistan. It just means they won't choose India.

Because Pakistanis support them either way. We know the Kashmiris won't be a threat to us, and if they want to run an independent country then they can.

That is such self-righteous tripe! Pakistan has been sending its Islamist idealogues to radicalize and "Pakistanize" the people of Kashmir by making common cause of the Jehadi dream.
 
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All the more reason for Pakistan to gear up to defeat the Taliban - it would give India more confidence in fulfilling its pledge.
 
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If the US have a big mouth when it comes to free and fair elections why do they move away when it comes to Kashmir? Sofar democracy have only brought onesided actions...

India does have internal democracy, and Kashmiris have every right to choose their leaders. Ultimately, the goal of democracy is to deliver better services to the people and that purpose would definitely be served if the foreign-sponsored militancy could be contained.

If anything, the last 2 decades of violence has made the lives of common Kashmiris extremely miserable, which has been one of the driving forces of the anti-establishment feeling. After all, muslim-muslim sympathy goes a long way in ensuring that Kashmiris hesitate to blame the Pakistani insurgents for their current suffering (as evidenced in the tacit support for the Taliban within the Pakistani population).

Withing a few years of toning down the insurgency, we recently heard the Hurriyat Conference supporting the Indian elections, only to back down under pressure from hardline islamists.
Hurriyat slams Jehad Council for poll boycott call
Mirwaiz caught between a rock and a hard place - India - The Times of India

We have heard a prominent separatist leader agree to contest the elections.
AFP: Kashmir separatist to contest Indian polls
 
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What else would the INDIAN government say? They want to keep throwing excuses out there for not to settle Kashmir. Anyone even asked why do we want to attack India? Because of Kashmir. If Kashmir issue is settled through a plebiscite, the case would be closed and we'd go our separate ways... So dude, yeah lets cut the crap!

Let's look at Terrorists attacks in India since 2000. Not a comprehensive list, but I collected it from quite a few sources which includes BR also.

2001
October 1: A car bomb explodes near the Jammu and Kashmir state assembly in Srinagar, killing 35 people and injuring 40 more.
December 13: Terrorist attack on Indian Parliament.

2002
India, January 22: Gunmen on motorcycles opened fire on guards at the American Center in Kolkata, killing five people.

2003
India, August 25: At least 48 people were killed and 150 injured in two blasts in south Mumbai - one near the Gateway of India at the other at the Zaveri Bazaar.

2004
Militants detonated a bomb that killed nine and injured about fifty others, including two elected officials. The incident occurred at a People's Democratic Party election rally at Uri. Party Chief Mehbooba Mufti was addressing the audience when the explosion took place. The Save Kashmir Movement later claimed responsibility for the blast.

A policeman was killed in Jammu and thirteen wounded in an attack during parliamentary voting. Muslim militants and leftist guerillas warned voters to stay from the polls and threatened violence on election day.

Suspected Muslim militants threw a grenade at a convoy carrying a state lawmaker as she was leaving a rally in the Anantnaga district. Though People's Democratic Party (PDP) member Mehbooba Mufti was uninjured, though four people were killed and forty-five were wounded in the attack. Radicals have warned people to stay away from the elections and voting.

.In Bungam, ten people were injured, including two police officers and eight civilians, when an unidentified person threw a hand grenade at a local representative's convoy. This attack comes only a week before parliamentary elections are set to begin in Kashmir.Suspected Muslim militants threw a hand grenade at a crowd during a candidate's political address, killing three civilians and wounding forty-nine others. The candidate from the National Conference Party was unhurt. This attack comes only a week before nation-wide parliamentary elections are due to take place.

One person was killed and twenty-one injured, when terrorists lobbed a grenade outside of the premises of the district hospital in Doda. The grenade was most likely aimed at a government convoy passing the hospital at the time. The victim killed was a government official and four of the injured included police officers. Police supsect the the Hizbul Mujahideen is behind the attack because the group is most active in the area..

A bicycle bomb that was detonated at the Chadoura bridge killed three people and injured twenty-four. The bomb had been planted by suspected militants on a bicycle parked 20 feet from a border security pillbox. No group claimed responsibility for the attack, but authorities are blaming Hizbul-Mujahedin

.A Pahalgam hotel was the target of a grenade attack, which killed four people, including two tourists. The grenade triggered the explosion of a gas canister in the hotel's restaurant, which made the explosion more deadly. Al-Nasireen has claimed responsibility for the attack. In their claim of responsibility the group states that they hope to discourage "obscenity and nudity being imported into the land of Islam's martyrs."..[128]

Six police personnel were killed and five injured when militants detonated an improvised explosive device as a convoy was passing by. The convoy was escorting a member of Parliament..[154

Two people were killed and thirty-nine injured when a bomb went off near a tourist reception center. The device was placed in a hand cart.

Deputy Chief Minister Mangat Ram Sharma escaped a second attempt on his life when militants threw a bomb at his public meeting in Anantnag. Five people were killed and around fifty other injured in the attack..

One person was killed and thirty-five injured when militants hurled a hand grenade inside of a hospital in Baramula. The injured were those who were hospitalized. The perpetrators probably attacked the hospital because a number of Border Security Forces had been admitted for earlier injuries.

About twenty people were injured when a bomb exploded in a cinema on the eve of Independence Day,

Two children were killed and their parents were injured in a grenade attack on their house in Gandoh. Militants were apparently aiming at the Central Reserve Police Force, when the rocket missed the target and landed on the family's house.

Unknown perpetrators detonated a bomb, attempting to kill Omar Abdullah, the leader of pro-India National Conference Party. The attack was carried out as Abdullah was attending a prayer ceremony for the former National Conference minister Safdar Ali Baig (killed by militants). The rebels' bomb missed their target, but injured four others in the crowd.

One person was killed and four other injuried when a funeral procession for two youths, Ranjit Kumar and Roshan Lal, was atta2002cked by militants in Tund Nallah. The attackers threw a bomb at the procession and also sprayed the crowd with gunfire. The two dead youths being honored by the funeral had been gunned down by ultras earlier. The Prime Minister was also scheduled to visit the region the next day

2005
India, July 5: 2005 Terrorist attack on Ayodhya – Six terrorists belonging to Lashkar-e-Toiba storm the Ayodhya Ram Janmbhomi complex. Before the terrorists could reach the main disputed site, they were shot down by Indian security forces. One devotee and two policemen were injured.

India, July 28: Jaunpur train bombing: 13 are killed when militants detonate a bomb on a commuter train.

India, October 29: Multiple bomb blasts hit markets in Delhi, India, leaving at least 61 dead and more than 200 injured.

India, December 28: Two or more unidentified gunmen open fire at the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, killing a retired professor of mathematics and wounding four others.


2006
India, March 7: Bombings in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi kill 28 and injure more than 100.

India, July 11: A series of explosions rock commuter trains in Mumbai, India, killing 209 and wounding another 714 civilians.

India, November 20: A suspected terrorist bomb explodes on a train in India.

2007
Hyderabad bombings. Twin bombings kill at least 44 and injure 54 in Hyderabad. Two bombs are diffused and 19 others are found unexploded. Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy, chief minister of Andhra Pradesh state, blames Islamic militants with ties to Pakistan or Bangladesh, saying that the extremists want to foment tension between India's Hindus and Muslims. Both Bangladesh and Pakistan deny the accusations

Flag of India Uttar Pradesh serial blasts. Near-simultaneous blasts triggered by militants in court premises in Varanasi, Faizabad, and the state capital kill 15 people and injure more than 80.

2008
Flag of India Jaipur. A simultaneous bomb blast at eight different sites, including a crowded shopping site and a Hanuman temple, a self-styled Indian Mujahideen, (a collaboration of LeT & SIMI) has claimed responsibility.

Bangalore. A series of nine blasts kills 2 and injures 20 people.

Ahmedabad. A series of seventeen blasts killing 49 and injuring 160 people

Flag of India Delhi. A series of 5 bombs exploded in Delhi, killing 30 and injuring 90.

Two weeks from the day of serial blasts killing 30, another bomb was detonated in a market in the Mehrauli district killing three and injuring 23.

And now the Mumbai attacks

Also this is another one -

November 26, 2008: 195 killed, over 300 hundred injured in a series of synchronised attacks in Mumbai around midnight on Wednesday. Three top Mumbai Police officials also killed in encounter.

September 13, 2008: At least 15 killed and over 110 injured in five blasts across New Delhi.

July 26, 2008: 29 killed and over 100 injured in 17 serial bomb blasts in Ahmedabad.


July 25, 2008: At least two killed and 20 injured in eight low-intensity blasts in Bangalore.

May 13, 2008: At least 63 were killed in nine bomb blasts in Jaipur.

August 25, 2007: At least 42 people were killed in two blasts in Hyderabad's Lumbini park and a restaurant.

May 18, 2007: At least 13 were killed in the bombing at Mecca Masjid, Hyderabad, which took place during Friday prayers.

September 8, 2006: Over 37 killed and 125 injured in a series of bomb blasts in the vicinity of a mosque in Malegaon, Maharashtra.

July 11, 2006: Over 200 killed in a series of seven blasts in Mumbai local trains.

March 7, 2006: At least 21 killed in three attacks in Varanasi in Shri Sankatmochan Mandir and Cantonment Railway Station.

October 29, 2005: Three powerful serial blasts in New Delhi just two days before Diwali. About 70 people died.


August 15, 2004: 16 killed in explodes in Assam. Most of them were schoolchildren.
August 25, 2003: Simultaneous car bombs in Mumbai kill 52

May 14, 2003: Terrorists attack an army camp near Jammu, killing more than 30, including women and children.


March 13, 2003: A bomb attack on a train in Mumbai kills 11.

September 24, 2002: Terrorists attack the Akshardham temple in Gujarat. 31 dead.

December 13, 2001: Terrorists attack parliament complex in New Delhi killing seven.

October 1, 2001: Attack on J&K assembly complex kills around 35.


Exclude Attacks in Kashmir if you wish so. Still we are left with tremendous number of attacks, which are not in Kashmir, but in Delhi, Mumbai, Bangalore, Ahmedabad, Religious places etc. They were specifically carried out with some aim, to weaken India economically & instigate communal riots.

And the problem is, we believe that Islamic militants nurtured by Pakistan like JeM, LeT or whatever they are called this week, are responsible for nearly all of these. India does not have any home grown terrorist organizations which are capable of such attacks which are carried with massive planning & co-ordination. So are you saying that all of this will stop, if Kashmir is solved? No Sir, delusional. Clearly as seen here, Kashmir is just one of the 1000 cuts. Even if Kashmir is solved, rest 999 still prevail. So yes, I agree to you that lets cut the crap.
 
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PEACEFUL INDIAN....you forgot another terrorist attack....MANMOHAN SINGHs HEARTATTACK....:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


either you accept it that TERRORISTS have no country or you just admit it that even internal freedom struggles by naxalities by muslims looking for rights and so on are taken as "ISI SPONSORED"


BUT HAVING SAID THAT.....these attacks will be reduced because KASHMIR is a mjor issue and given your logic ISI would have no reason for sponsoring terrorism.....RIGHT????
 
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Pakistan created the kashmir problem by sending in your 'non state actors' in 1948, Pakistan made the problem bloody by sending in your 'non state actors' in 1989, so if gun remains the preferred choice of dialogue of Pakistan, so be it.
 
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Why dont they ask there darling india to pull all her troops out of kashmere how bout it show some leader ship we should keep bending absolutly positively NO.




and let the terrorists take over indian kashmir like pakistan's fata and swat ? we are not fools to let that happen and then try to negotiate with terrorists and then resume army action.....
:crazy:
 
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Will Pak eventually give in to Taliban?



Pakistan's foreign minister asked US officials not to panic over Taliban advances along Pakistan's border with Afghanistan, a region British Prime Minister Gordon Brown called a "crucible of terrorism."

Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said Pakistan has sent militants in its tribal areas a "clear signal" that they must lay down arms, as he sought to quell Western fears raised by a recent peace deal between militants and the government.

"We mean business, and if we have to use force, we will use force. We will not hesitate," Qureshi said on the sidelines of meetings with his Afghan and Iranian counterparts.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton last week said Pakistan was "basically abdicating to the Taliban and the extremists," though she later said Pakistan was beginning to realise the threat militants posed.

"My response is: 'Please do not panic,'" Qureshi said in response to Clinton's comments. "We have now a common enemy, and we've devised a common strategy to deal with the enemy.

We will not surrender, we will not capitulate, and we will not abdicate."

Brown visited British troops in southern Afghanistan during a one-day trip. He later flew to Islamabad.

Will Pak eventually give in to Taliban? | India.com
 
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one thing clear. IA is going to have a hard time in coming weeks in J&K and there is little we can do except take things as they come as any pressure at this point on Pakistan will ensure its gone forever
 
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PEACEFUL INDIAN....you forgot another terrorist attack....MANMOHAN SINGHs HEARTATTACK....:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


either you accept it that TERRORISTS have no country or you just admit it that even internal freedom struggles by naxalities by muslims looking for rights and so on are taken as "ISI SPONSORED"


BUT HAVING SAID THAT.....these attacks will be reduced because KASHMIR is a mjor issue and given your logic ISI would have no reason for sponsoring terrorism.....RIGHT????

Your post is just a bunch of irrelevant sentences tied together.

either you accept it that TERRORISTS have no country or you just admit it that even internal freedom struggles by naxalities by muslims looking for rights and so on are taken as "ISI SPONSORED"

I refuse to accept both. Terrorists do have a country. At least today, it is called as P-A-K-I-S-T-A-N.

And you can't name one Indian organization that has the strength to carry out such attacks. What 'Muslims looking for rights'? What organization? And no - above post of mine does NOT have the list of naxal attacks, even though it would have been equally long. So, forget it. Kashmir is NOT central to Pakistan sponsored terrorism in India. It never was.
 
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Why dont they ask there darling india to pull all her troops out of kashmere how bout it show some leader ship we should keep bending absolutly positively NO.




and let the terrorists take over indian kashmir like pakistan's fata and swat ? we are not fools to let that happen and then try to negotiate with terrorists and then resume army action.....
:crazy:

Exactly !! India is not Pakistan. There is a huge difference in the Indian and the Pakistani mindset and that manifests itself into the policies against terrorism !

For one thing, Indian politicians of all hues, Indian media and its people could never imagine a Swat like deal with Kashmiris !

Maybe it could be a simple as non muslim India vs the muslim kashmiris or it may be extreme nationalism and pride of a united India.

Whatever it is, if Pakistan is soft on Taliban types because of the similarity of religion, then it needs to address this very soon.

Terrorism has no religion and being a better muslim or following Islam more closely does not imply that they will be friends with pakistan now or in the future !!
 
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PEACEFUL INDIAN....you forgot another terrorist attack....MANMOHAN SINGHs HEARTATTACK....:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


either you accept it that TERRORISTS have no country or you just admit it that even internal freedom struggles by naxalities by muslims looking for rights and so on are taken as "ISI SPONSORED"


BUT HAVING SAID THAT.....these attacks will be reduced because KASHMIR is a mjor issue and given your logic ISI would have no reason for sponsoring terrorism.....RIGHT????

Wow I truely admire your sense of humour. I must say that you can be the funniest guy at times. Even when we are discussing some serious issues, you only have the ability to provide some comic releif. I am sure most of the members are endebted to you for you innovtive use of smilies. I must ompliment that terrorist attack and heart attack, how did you come up with these and the thoughtful use of smilies made them hysterically hilarious. I think if you start telling these jokes at the border , IA will die of laughing, no bullets will be required.

And yes I am in full agreement with you arguments made in the second and third paragraph of the post. Even though the concept of Muslim Naxalites is not exactly in line with the Communist philosophy of Naxalites, but I'll take your word for it. Agreed we must admit to atleast either of the two options. I'll let the others decide.

BUT HAVING SAID THAT.....these attacks will be reduced because KASHMIR is a mjor issue and given your logic ISI would have no reason for sponsoring terrorism.....RIGHT????

This is absolute brilliant comprehension of thoughts and the use of ALL CAPS to emphasize the right points really has me baffled. I am too stumped by the sheer high quality of posting to add anything constructive to the argument or answer your really tricky question.
You have put all the indian posters in a catch 22 situation and they are all hiding behind trivial reasons to avoid answering your hard hitting questions.
Cheers,
 
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