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IDF reservists refuse to serve over Palestinian 'persecution'

I did not read the entire article - I did an CTRL+F on the words "building", "civilian" and "sex", and had no results. So I'm going to assume Hasbaretz is failing to give details on the more damaging of the agents' revelations.

The Guardian's article is very superior - it gives more of an idea of how outrageous Israel's intel operations are.

Here is an excerpt from it:

A common complaint, made in both the testimonies and in interviews given by some of the signatories, including to the Guardian this week, is that some of the activities the soldiers were asked to engage in had more in common with the intelligence services of oppressive regimes than of a democracy.

(...)​

• A significant proportion of the unit’s Palestinian objectives “are innocent people unconnected to any military activity. They interest the unit for other reasons, usually without having the slightest idea that they’re intelligence targets.” According to the testimonies those targets were not treated any differently from terrorists.

Personnel were instructed to keep any damaging details of Palestinians’ lives they came across, including information on sexual preferences, infidelities, financial problems or family illnesses that could be “used to extort/blackmail the person and turn them into a collaborator”.

• Former members claim some intelligence gathered by the unit was not collected in the service of the Israeli state but in pursuit of the “agendas” of individual Israeli politicians. In one incident, for which no details have been provided, one signatory recalls: “Regarding one project in particular, many of us were shocked as we were exposed to it. Clearly it was not something we as soldiers were supposed to do. The information was almost directly transferred to political players and not to other sections of the security system.”

• Unit members swapped intercepts they gathered involving “sex talk” for their own entertainment.

(...)

In their interviews, they described a culture of impunity where soldiers were actively discouraged in training lessons from questioning the legality of orders, and of being deliberately misled by commanders about the circumstances of a case in which one member of their unit refused to cooperate in the bombing of a building with civilians in it in retaliation for an attack in Israel.

They added that there were in effect “no rules” governing which Palestinians could be targeted and that the only restraint on their intelligence gathering in the occupied territories was “resources”.

“In intelligence – in Israel intelligence regarding Palestinians – they don’t really have rights,” said Nadav, 26, a sergeant, who is now a philosophy and literature student in Tel Aviv. “Nobody asks that question. It’s not [like] Israeli citizens, where if you want to gather information about them you need to go to court.”​
 
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Yeah!

Report: IDF to discharge reservists from elite intel unit who refuse to serve in West Bank

According to Channel 10, which interviewed a number of the letter’s signatories, the reservists’ fellow soldiers in the unit were “furious” over their decision to publicly air their grievances against the unit’s activities in the West Bank.

A right-wing NGO on Friday demanded that IDF chief of staff Benny Gantz forcibly discharge the group.

...........
They refused to serve so they were discharged from the unit. Sooooooo? They were not lynched nor tortured like Hamas would do.

*Cough* *Cough* But there was no Palestinian persecution and Israel was fighting Qatari terrorists in Gaza
There are 700,000 people in IDF (together with reserves). So u can find all kind of opinions among them, including very wrong ones. Thats natural.

Sure, but instead of just condemning them, how about addressing their points instead? Democracy also allows those that no nothing to have an opinion too, it does not mean their opinion in valid.
Israeli media published their points and there is discussion on TV. If it was in Arab countries they would be just shot or imprisoned and no one would even knew that it happened.
 
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I did not read the entire article - I did an CTRL+F on the words "building", "civilian" and "sex", and had no results. So I'm going to assume Hasbaretz is failing to give details on the more damaging of the agents' revelations.

The Guardian's article is very superior - it gives more of an idea of how outrageous Israel's intel operations are.

Here is an excerpt from it:

A common complaint, made in both the testimonies and in interviews given by some of the signatories, including to the Guardian this week, is that some of the activities the soldiers were asked to engage in had more in common with the intelligence services of oppressive regimes than of a democracy.

(...)​

• A significant proportion of the unit’s Palestinian objectives “are innocent people unconnected to any military activity. They interest the unit for other reasons, usually without having the slightest idea that they’re intelligence targets.” According to the testimonies those targets were not treated any differently from terrorists.

Personnel were instructed to keep any damaging details of Palestinians’ lives they came across, including information on sexual preferences, infidelities, financial problems or family illnesses that could be “used to extort/blackmail the person and turn them into a collaborator”.

• Former members claim some intelligence gathered by the unit was not collected in the service of the Israeli state but in pursuit of the “agendas” of individual Israeli politicians. In one incident, for which no details have been provided, one signatory recalls: “Regarding one project in particular, many of us were shocked as we were exposed to it. Clearly it was not something we as soldiers were supposed to do. The information was almost directly transferred to political players and not to other sections of the security system.”

• Unit members swapped intercepts they gathered involving “sex talk” for their own entertainment.

(...)

In their interviews, they described a culture of impunity where soldiers were actively discouraged in training lessons from questioning the legality of orders, and of being deliberately misled by commanders about the circumstances of a case in which one member of their unit refused to cooperate in the bombing of a building with civilians in it in retaliation for an attack in Israel.

They added that there were in effect “no rules” governing which Palestinians could be targeted and that the only restraint on their intelligence gathering in the occupied territories was “resources”.

“In intelligence – in Israel intelligence regarding Palestinians – they don’t really have rights,” said Nadav, 26, a sergeant, who is now a philosophy and literature student in Tel Aviv. “Nobody asks that question. It’s not [like] Israeli citizens, where if you want to gather information about them you need to go to court.”​

Good post. :tup:

This is highly disturbing, you would think they would speak out sooner. This is what the West is supporting.
 
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Israeli media published their points and there is discussion on TV. If it was in Arab countries they would be just shot or imprisoned and no one would even knew that it happened.
Oh, I have no doubt about that much, but we're not talking about Arab nations, we're talking about Israel. "what about"-isms are the biggest arguments pro-Israelis make, and quite frankly, it's doing more harm than good.
 
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Israeli media published their points and there is discussion on TV. If it was in Arab countries they would be just shot or imprisoned and no one would even knew that it happened.

Deflection. :sarcastic::sarcastic::sarcastic:
Why is it that you Israelis regurgitate the same things over and over again?
"B-but we're a democracy!"
"B-but Islamic Terrorists!"
"B-but Jewish people have saved the world!"

As an informal fallacy, the red herring falls into a broad class of relevance fallacies. Unlike the strawman, which is premised on a distortion of the other party's position,[2] the red herring is a seemingly plausible, though ultimately irrelevant, diversionary tactic.[3] According to the Oxford English Dictionary, a red herring may be intentional, or unintentional; it does not necessarily mean a conscious intent to mislead.[1]
 
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Oh, I have no doubt about that much, but we're not talking about Arab nations, we're talking about Israel. "what about"-isms are the biggest arguments pro-Israelis make, and quite frankly, it's doing more harm than good.
I mentioned only Israel at first. I brought the Arab nations as example only when u said that discharging them from the army was unfair and cruel. Actually they were rewarded.

Deflection. :sarcastic::sarcastic::sarcastic:
Why is it that you Israelis regurgitate the same things over and over again?
"B-but we're a democracy!"
"B-but Islamic Terrorists!"
"B-but Jewish people have saved the world!"
You have serious reading comprehension problems. I did not say any "But". I just said that this example shows the beauty of Israeli democracy. Thats it.

Go back to school.
 
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Respect to the folks who realized their actions (government sponsored) were inhumane
 
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I mentioned only Israel at first. I brought the Arab nations as example only when u said that discharging them from the army was unfair and cruel. Actually they were rewarded.


You have serious reading comprehension problems. I did not say any "But". I just said that this example shows the beauty of Israeli democracy. Thats it.

Go back to school.

:omghaha:
Well, I can tell you're clutching at straws.
"Haha you have reading problems! I didn't say any "but" at all!"

And what you actually did was try to use the usual deflection and diversion tactics.

What out-dated JIDF manual are you using?
 
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:omghaha:
Well, I can tell you're clutching at straws.
"Haha you have reading problems! I didn't say any "but" at all!"

And what you actually did was try to use the usual deflection and diversion tactics.

What out-dated JIDF manual are you using?
First u applied to me words that I did not say. When it failed u start talking about my personality. Thats pathetic.
 
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I mentioned only Israel at first. I brought the Arab nations as example only when u said that discharging them from the army was unfair and cruel. Actually they were rewarded.
When did I say that discharging them from the army was unfair and cruel? I said no such thing. Can you show me a source on when they were rewarded?

The Arab nations have nothing to do with this, using them as an example makes no sense.
 
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When did I say that discharging them from the army was unfair and cruel? I said no such thing. Can you show me a source on when they were rewarded?

The Arab nations have nothing to do with this, using them as an example makes no sense.
It was Hazzy who comlained about their discharging. U complained that they were condemned by some (which is also a part of a democracy) and that they are ignored (which is not true, they get HUGE, absolutely overrated publicity i Israeli media).

Keep spewing your logical fallacies.
Your lies and personal attacks are ur fallacy not mine.
 
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