IAF set to lose its fighting edge

[Windjammer]

Thats a very "patriotic" dream I must say...

Actually, the "Nightmare" scenario was discussed by a military historian in an article.

 

[DrSomnath999]

Are Flankers/Typhoon/Rafale/Raptor battle proven ? If no , then why the hell are you applying your logic to Chinese fighters only ?

apart from Raptor all are battle proven

FLANKERS: 1999 eithopia & eitrean war

RAFALE & typhoon: libya war

F22 :: LLOOLZZ wait for IRAN US war

but they have tested their aerial platforms in every war they had fought whther the french ,US, russia atleast they have tested
in real time environment .Ok F22 has not been war tested ,but surely it's weapons are combat tested or not .

How many aerial warfare chinese have done in real time warfare .

You are forgetting one thing......thier way of thinking is different from us........Now they will say, Rafale luckily survived in those war's...

they would say GADDAFI was paid by sarkozy not to shoot down rafale to woo IAF to buy Rafale from them

 

[Airway]

thnkssssssssss for sharing

 

[punnu83]

We are going through a phase of transaction where we got top fighter jet in asia sukhoi 30mki. we are phasing out migs, that counts numbers not quality. Even we drop to lowest quantity but even then our quantity will be moving in higher direction is top quality. In couple of years rafael will be start rolling in. And further up

 

[Dash]

Actually, the "Nightmare" scenario was discussed by a military historian in an article.

I guess then we are in big trouble

 

[Hulk]

Actually, the "Nightmare" scenario was discussed by a military historian in an article.

If you won a match in past does not mean you will win in future. Uncle Sam played a key role in both training and equipment at that time. Currently that Uncle is not happy with you and Chacha you are looking for help is not as good as your uncle.

 

[OrionHunter]

So Mr I-Know-everything-about-Pakistan's-future! you worry about your country and let us worry about our.

Thanks for your invaluable advice, Mr adviser-that-no-one-takes-seriously!! But I wanna worry about Pakistan too, as it's a friendly neighborhood bogeyman!!

 

[ptltejas]

We r at losing WAR. Mig 21, Mig 27, Jaguars are old bird to fly and hunt. Only Su 30 is capable enough for any mordern war. Looking to present threat we need that immediately.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Junk Fighter 17 over New Delhi! Bwahahaha! Chinese have a good sense of humor.

Junk fighter? how original.
How ever will we compete with such a display of intellect.

name calling final resort for frustrated children.
Do yourself a favor, try not get banned kiddo.

 

[OrionHunter]

How Chinese Flankers and J 10's are inferior ... Just because you are exported cheap quality goods by the Chinese, you think the defense equipment would be the same

Ooops! Secur, you saying that Chinese goods are cheap quality, being a Pakistani?? Now that's unbelievable!

But you really hit the nail on the head, buddy! I agree! Chinese stuff is of very cheap quality. No wonder India is restricting further imports of Chinese goods because they suck! Period!

And yes, that applies to defence equipment too! Beware! Don't risk that junk in a war!

(Now don't tell me I didn't warn you!

)

 

[acetophenol]

We r at losing WAR. Mig 21, Mig 27, Jaguars are old bird to fly and hunt. Only Su 30 is capable enough for any mordern war. Looking to present threat we need that immediately.

You are wrong.
Mig 21 bisons, jags and 27s are upgraded like hell.

Mig 21 bisons have got a new glass cockpits,its bvr capable,HOTAS,mid air refuel capability etc

Jags are simply awesome aircrafts,know for its deep penetration capability. Jags also has glass cockpit,has fighter capability and mid air refuel capability etc

Mig 27 are best for close air support,and has got modern glass cockpit.

Sorry for the bad styled reply . If i had a pc,i would have explained better!

 

[Jungibaaz]

I think most Pakistani members know it is highly unlikely the PAF will get the J-20 as the high costs of initial purchase and later maintenance is much higher than the PAF has ever encountered and much beyond what the Pakistani members can realistically afford.

As time progresses, cost of aircraft increases and budget adapts to that.
Same could be said about the F-16 Block 52, who would thought a decade ago, that we could get our hands on more F-16s from the USAF, which pretty much added up $80 mill per aircraft considering the avionics and weapons package that came with them.

Sure they'll be expensive, and that maintainance costs will be higher, it's the trend, 5th gen a/c are no exception.

If the PAF was to get the J-20 this would be a completely new doctrine they were operating in the sense the J-20 is a twin engine fighter and the PAF has only ever operated single engined fighters, a doctrine Pakistani members swear by.

Incorrect.

F-7s and A-5s were both twin-engine.

It's not a doctrine, rather a preference, preferences that can change overtime.
Also consider that going from 4th gen to 5th is more of maintenance shock then single to twin-engine.

Addtionally I have heard the Chinese are looking to develop a cheaper and less capable 5th gen fighter for export, the J-XX,which would seem to fit the PAF's needs and as much has been said by Pakistanis.

That's correct, I believe the name for the project was the J-2X.
Chinese 5th gen for PAF seems certain and J-2X seems like the most likely option.

In this case though the J-XX as not even been seen nor flight tested and it is not even known if this is confirmed so the assert action that Pakistan could have 5th gen fighters before India is completely false.

No-one should be quick to assume either way. For now J-2X is a paper plane or just a rumor.
But one can't assume that PAF wont.

India is more than likely going to be the first nation in the region to operate 5th gen a/c.

Doesn't matter all that much to me, if Chinese 5th gen aren't there by then, they'll (both PLAAF and PAF) will rush and order asap.

So in conclusion, J-20 may seem unlikely if you consider the J-2X.
But there's no way anyone can assume either way and for costs, obviously the increase in costs will be quite substantial but not enough to stop us from inducting 5th gen, they will become necessary. No one can predict the state of the economy either.

regards,

 

[MiG-21]

Ooops! Secur, you saying that Chinese goods are cheap quality, being a Pakistani?? Now that's unbelievable!

But you really hit the nail on the head, buddy! I agree! Chinese stuff is of very cheap quality. No wonder India is restricting further imports of Chinese goods because they suck! Period!

And yes, that applies to defence equipment too! Beware! Don't risk that junk in a war!

(Now don't tell me I didn't warn you!

Yesterday, we wrote up RAND’s latest assessment of the PLA air forces that focused on modernization progress over the past decade and China’s development of a fighter production base built largely by reverse engineering Russian and some Israeli designs.

Meanwhile, David Axe reports that there have been some pretty serious problems with new jets coming off Chinese production lines. The PLA recently rejected delivery of 16 J-11B (a licensed version of the Su-27 Flanker) because of abnormal vibrations.

Chinese production of the single engine J-10B (reverse engineered from Israel’s Lavi) has also veered off course.

“On April 22, a J-10 crashed, killing a senior pilot. It was the second known crash in two years of the new fighter, and came just nine days after the Chinese military hosted delegations of African and Middle Eastern arms buyers, in hope of selling them the J-10 and other weapons.

Beijing has tried to cover up the J-10 crashes, according to Manu Sood. “The 22 April crash became public because a senior colonel had died in the crash and the funeral became too big to keep the story hushed. The news report also claims that the design of the 200-odd J-10s produced have not worked out as desired by [the] developers.”
http://defensetech.org/2010/05/21/quality-control-crisis-in-chinese-jet-fighter-production

Quality Control Failures Ground Chinese Jets
There’s a crisis in Chinese jet fighter production. Quality-control issues threaten to ground ambitious plans to provide modern aircraft to Chinese forces and for sale to foreign air arms.

Recently, the People’s Liberation Army Air Force rejected delivery of 16 J-11B fighters from Shenyang Aircraft. “When the Air Force was checking them up for delivery, J-11B had abnormal vibration after taking off,” Kanwa Defense Review quoted a source as saying. “As a result, the Air Force refused to accept the aircraft.”

The J-11 is a licensed version of the Russian Su-27.

Meanwhile, China’s newest combat aircraft has suffered an embarrassing string of accidents. The J-10B, built by Chengdu, is a reverse-engineered version of the Israeli Lavi fighter from the 1980s. On April 22, a J-10 crashed, killing a senior pilot. It was the second known crash in two years of the new fighter, and came just nine days after the Chinese military hosted delegations of African and Middle Eastern arms buyers, in hope of selling them the J-10 and other weapons.

Beijing has tried to cover up the J-10 crashes, according to Manu Sood. “The 22 April crash became public because a senior colonel had died in the crash and the funeral became too big to keep the story hushed. The news report also claims that the design of the 200-odd J-10s produced have not worked out as desired by [the] developers.”

“The pitfalls of reverse engineering without paying royalty and truly understanding the technology are high accident rates,” Sood wrote.
War Is Boring » Quality Control Failures Ground Chinese Jets

 

[Windjammer]

If you won a match in past does not mean you will win in future. Uncle Sam played a key role in both training and equipment at that time. Currently that Uncle is not happy with you and Chacha you are looking for help is not as good as your uncle.

And it so seems only your Chacha, Gobar Parsad has been feeding you.
In 1965, the PAF may have been an all American force but for 1971, still under sanctions, nothing worthy can be contributed to Uncle Sam. If it was all that good, perhaps you should also go for the equipment that may help you win a match some day.

 

[Nitin Goyal]

look at the procurement cycle of IAF and PAF....

Upgradation of mig 29, Su-30 mki, mirage - 2000 ...

Procurement of SU 30 mki, and mig 29 naval version and possible entry of Tejas in 2 years...

Now look at the PAF's cycle..

JF-17 blk 1, jf-17 blk-2 whose upgradations are below expectations...

Upgradation of vintage era f-16 with sting attached...

I don't understand who is loosing what....