What's new

IAF keen on US Scorpion aircraft offer

SpArK

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
May 5, 2010
Messages
22,519
Reaction score
18
Country
India
Location
India
IAF keen on US Scorpion aircraft offer

TAL-AV-Week-Cover.jpg
_76269045_textron_airland_624.jpg




The IAF badly needs an IJT due to delays by HAL, which has been working on an IJT since 1997.

By: Huma Siddiqui | New Delhi | September 4,


After asking state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) to stop work on the intermediate jet trainers (IJT), the Indian Air Force (IAF) is now keen on the US offer of Textron’s AirLand Scorpion light-attack and intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) aircraft.

The IAF badly needs an IJT due to delays by HAL, which has been working on an IJT since 1997. Senior IAF officials believe that the twin-seat platform of the Textron’s ISR aircraft can also be used as an intermediate jet trainer.

Sources have indicated during the forthcoming visit of Prime Minister Narendra Modi to the US from September 22 to 28, besides a likely visit to the Boeing headquarters, military trade between the two countries will be high on the agenda, including the ISR aircraft, 22 Boeing AH-64E Apache and 15 Boeing CH-47F Chinook helicopters, armoured vehicles and other platforms.

According to officials, when Modi meets with US President Barack Obama on September 28 for bilateral discussions, the two leaders will also review progress in the four ‘pathfinder’ technologies that the US had agreed to transfer to India under the Defence Trade and Technology Initiative (DTTI). These include the know-how to co-develop and jointly manufacture AeroVironment RQ-11 Raven battlefield unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and roll-on/roll-off ISR modules for the IAF’s 11 Lockheed Martin C-130J-30 transport aircraft.

The two technical working groups set up earlier in 2015 to jointly develop aircraft engines and electromagnetic aircraft launch systems (EMALS) for aircraft carriers will be on the table for reviewing the progress.

Under the timeline indicated by HAL earlier, the indigenous IJTs were to be inducted in the IAF this year. However, a lot of tests of the machine are still not done and issues related to the specifications given by the customer have not been met.

The IJT is aimed at providing high-speed training for IAF pilots entering the second stage of training. Fresh cadets begin flight training in a basic trainer aircraft (BTA) and then on an IJT before moving on to an advanced jet trainer (AJT) to finally learn the art of combat flying.

When US defence secretary Ashton Carter visited India earlier this year, the two sides inked a 10-year India-US Defence Framework Agreement and fast-tracked the DTTI, under which the two countries will co-develop and co-produce military equipment in India.

It was during this visit in June that the US offered the Textron AirLand Scorpion aircraft. It is estimated that Textron’s Scorpion would cost less than $20 million to procure and around $3,000 per hour to operate. The US company has set a sales target of 2,000 platforms to international operators over the coming years.

IAF keen on US Scorpion aircraft offer | The Financial Express
 
@SpArK
sir cost wise how do HAL Sitara and Scorpion compare with each other.
If US administration agrees for indigenous manufacture of these planes, i guess IAF and IN may have a combined order requirement of 140-150 pieces, making it a very good possible deal for both India and Textron.
 
IAF keen on US Scorpion aircraft offer

TAL-AV-Week-Cover.jpg
_76269045_textron_airland_624.jpg




The IAF badly needs an IJT due to delays by HAL, which has been working on an IJT since 1997.

By: Huma Siddiqui | New Delhi | September 4,


After asking state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) to stop work on the intermediate jet trainers (IJT), the Indian Air Force (IAF) is now keen on the US offer of Textron’s AirLand Scorpion light-attack and intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) aircraft.

The IAF badly needs an IJT due to delays by HAL, which has been working on an IJT since 1997. Senior IAF officials believe that the twin-seat platform of the Textron’s ISR aircraft can also be used as an intermediate jet trainer.

Sources have indicated during the forthcoming visit of Prime Minister Narendra Modi to the US from September 22 to 28, besides a likely visit to the Boeing headquarters, military trade between the two countries will be high on the agenda, including the ISR aircraft, 22 Boeing AH-64E Apache and 15 Boeing CH-47F Chinook helicopters, armoured vehicles and other platforms.

According to officials, when Modi meets with US President Barack Obama on September 28 for bilateral discussions, the two leaders will also review progress in the four ‘pathfinder’ technologies that the US had agreed to transfer to India under the Defence Trade and Technology Initiative (DTTI). These include the know-how to co-develop and jointly manufacture AeroVironment RQ-11 Raven battlefield unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and roll-on/roll-off ISR modules for the IAF’s 11 Lockheed Martin C-130J-30 transport aircraft.

The two technical working groups set up earlier in 2015 to jointly develop aircraft engines and electromagnetic aircraft launch systems (EMALS) for aircraft carriers will be on the table for reviewing the progress.

Under the timeline indicated by HAL earlier, the indigenous IJTs were to be inducted in the IAF this year. However, a lot of tests of the machine are still not done and issues related to the specifications given by the customer have not been met.

The IJT is aimed at providing high-speed training for IAF pilots entering the second stage of training. Fresh cadets begin flight training in a basic trainer aircraft (BTA) and then on an IJT before moving on to an advanced jet trainer (AJT) to finally learn the art of combat flying.

When US defence secretary Ashton Carter visited India earlier this year, the two sides inked a 10-year India-US Defence Framework Agreement and fast-tracked the DTTI, under which the two countries will co-develop and co-produce military equipment in India.

It was during this visit in June that the US offered the Textron AirLand Scorpion aircraft. It is estimated that Textron’s Scorpion would cost less than $20 million to procure and around $3,000 per hour to operate. The US company has set a sales target of 2,000 platforms to international operators over the coming years.

IAF keen on US Scorpion aircraft offer | The Financial Express

Intermediate Jet Trainer aircrafts used by IAF in its training program is not widely followed program, many advance air-force use Supersonic Lead-in fighter training (LIFT) aircrafts for Stage-III training and AJT in Stage-II or use Combination of Ground Simulators and Basic trainers which means not many aircrafts are designed as Intermediate Jet Trainers which lead to very few even responding to Request For Information (RFI) issued by IAF.

Scorpion jet designed as a low-cost ISR aircraft and is technologically more advance aircraft when it comes to meet requirements for Indian air force’s Stage-II Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT) and at least on paper performance of the Scorpion jets exceeds performance of Hawk Mk.132 AJTs used by IAF in Stage-III of Pilot training .

How can an Aircraft which is superior to Stage-III aircraft of Pilot training program can be placed lower at Stage-II as Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT)? It will be Interesting to see how IAF will utilize Scorpion aircrafts in its training program if it decides to buy them. Will it downgrade Mk.132 to be used as Stage-II aircraft and place Scorpion as Stage-III aircraft virtually killing of Indigenous HJT-36 Sitara aircraft or Eliminate Stage-II program and use Both Aircraft’s in as Stage-III aircrafts till Sitara is ready.

Even if IAF requires a LIFT platform - Trainer variant of LCA Mark-1 can be very well used as LIFT aircraft. It is already replacing MiG Operational Flying Training Unit or MOFTU to provide operational flying training to pilots inducted into the fighter stream.

up-and-away-XL.jpg

Scorpion will do nothing but kill the Sitara platform.
 
This jet is threat to LCA`s and JF17 in terms of cost .So for both PAF and IAF will not select as it wont be a clever decission.
 
Intermediate Jet Trainer aircrafts used by IAF in its training program is not widely followed program, many advance air-force use Supersonic Lead-in fighter training (LIFT) aircrafts for Stage-III training and AJT in Stage-II or use Combination of Ground Simulators and Basic trainers which means not many aircrafts are designed as Intermediate Jet Trainers which lead to very few even responding to Request For Information (RFI) issued by IAF.

Scorpion jet designed as a low-cost ISR aircraft and is technologically more advance aircraft when it comes to meet requirements for Indian air force’s Stage-II Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT) and at least on paper performance of the Scorpion jets exceeds performance of Hawk Mk.132 AJTs used by IAF in Stage-III of Pilot training .

How can an Aircraft which is superior to Stage-III aircraft of Pilot training program can be placed lower at Stage-II as Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT)? It will be Interesting to see how IAF will utilize Scorpion aircrafts in its training program if it decides to buy them. Will it downgrade Mk.132 to be used as Stage-II aircraft and place Scorpion as Stage-III aircraft virtually killing of Indigenous HJT-36 Sitara aircraft or Eliminate Stage-II program and use Both Aircraft’s in as Stage-III aircrafts till Sitara is ready.

Even if IAF requires a LIFT platform - Trainer variant of LCA Mark-1 can be very well used as LIFT aircraft. It is already replacing MiG Operational Flying Training Unit or MOFTU to provide operational flying training to pilots inducted into the fighter stream.

up-and-away-XL.jpg

Scorpion will do nothing but kill the Sitara platform.


Sitara is dead.... only the funeral is remaining.

The Scorpion is definitely worth considering. It was suggested a few years ago to India that it should take up a JV for its manufacture. That makes sense; it fits into the "Make in India" program and actually India can then become the manufacturing hub for this aircraft, since it has a good market possibility out side India as well.

Of course, there is a caveat. The agreement for any JV manufacture should clearly and carefully lay down a progressive road-map for manufacture. Just the usual TOT or Offsets template will not work.

Finally, induction of this aircraft will need IAF to re-jig its training system too. The Hawk will need to be shuffled around in the training syllabus.
So far as LIFT is concerned, the LCA can take over that role with both its single-seat and dual-seat versions. I consider that to be a no-brainer.
 
Why cant the IAF do this:

Stage 1: Pilatus

Stage 2: Hawk AJT

Stage 3: Fighter specific trainer


Whats the huge importance of an IJT?
 
well it is a good plane
and it is cheap

i dont know how much is it
 
This jet is threat to LCA`s and JF17 in terms of cost .So for both PAF and IAF will not select as it wont be a clever decission.

Who said that it is thread for JF17. It is hardly 3rd gen comparable and JF17 is solid 4th gen. How did you compare them both.please explain
 
See if we keep waiting for sitara we will be still waiting even in 2018 when whole dimensions y airforce around tge world will be changed to more precise capabilities than today . I dont see why we should not go for these atkeast keeping their capabilities at times of war in mind ? Or anti insurgencies operations . Nice hunting lessons for our rookie pilots.

Mean while.why we should not consider tejas general variant for advanced trainers too ? Over all this fighters and tejas will give lots of good experience to our rookies before they steps in to shoes of pros

Who said that it is thread for JF17. It is hardly 3rd gen comparable and JF17 is solid 4th gen. How did you compare them both.please explain

Dude jf17 istelf a 3rd gen technology . Funny yiu guys add refueling probe alone to call it Mark 2 the revolutionary and MK3 with aesa radar for beyound 2020 and name it a revolutionary of all revolution lol tejas FoC will have all sort of things in one go . Probably by next March . So dont underestimate this trainer jet . Its has all quality to bevome best light fighter in very cheap category . It wont hurt tejas though . As main purpose of tejas to to replace 300'400 old migs of IAF . Which means project will be a success im terma of numners it will be produced
 
Who said that it is thread for JF17. It is hardly 3rd gen comparable and JF17 is solid 4th gen. How did you compare them both.please explain
Dude interms of cost plus Textron jets are in class of Light class which can support many missions just like YAK
 
Scorpion is over qualified to be a stage 2 trainer,
It has the range and the speed, but lacks the payload capacity to be a CAS Aircraft.

As far as Recon is concerned, well we are better off using our 100+ Herons UAVs.

If we require a slow moving Jet for CAS, then Hawk AJT will play that role,
We are inducting 140 of these. They have the same payload and Range as the Mig27, and can replace Mig27 and Jaguars in certain roles. And I believe HAL and BAE are working on a avionics and Weapons package for Hawk.

It's part of current government's initiative to reduce wasteful expenditure and make best use of available resources.
 
Please keep the JF-17 off the thread. Just because one Indian C decided to be the troll douchebag from across the border does not mean every Pakistani needs to be the same in return.


On topic.
The Scorpion is pretty near the class of jet that is the Hawk, especially since it offers the potential for both swept and straight wing configurations that would allow it to perform both IJT and AJT functions perfectly. Sadly, it is a little too late for the AJT program even though it would have been a great fit.
However, I am not sure of the operating costs it might incur as a twin powerplant IJT as even the ever cheap and reliable TFE31 may run some expense more than the Hawk when operated in pairs.
 
Back
Top Bottom