I worked on the US drone program. The public should know what really goes on

[JayAtl]

limited sharing is better than nothing.

no?

yeah, but Mr Aeronaut seems to want a hell of a lot more from us. Hence I was confused

 

[FaujHistorian]

yeah, but Mr Aeronaut seems to want a hell of a lot more from us. Hence I was confused

you think my aero bhai will write the US-Pak cooperation plan?

Yes?

 

[JayAtl]

you think my aero bhai will write the US-Pak cooperation plan?

Yes?

nah , but we are all internet experts( think of ourselves to be one), myself included - so we love to pontificate.

 

[FaujHistorian]

nah , but we are all internet experts( think of ourselves to be one), myself included - so we love to pontificate.

Then bhai Jaan

Go ahead a put some extra zeros in your cooperation plan. Not going from your pocket?

No?

 

[Kompromat]

@JayAtl

If you want to reach a logical understanding, you might have to shun the notion of 'good doer' CIA.

CIA and ISI have vested interests of their own. We are talking about perhaps world's two largest drug runners!

They are like the apple and Microsoft of this industry. Its a weird world as both of them are working hand in glove in Syria as we speak.

 

[JayAtl]

@JayAtl

If you want to reach a logical understanding, you might have to shun the notion of 'good doer' CIA.

CIA and ISI have vested interests of their own. We are talking about perhaps world's two largest drug runners!

They are like the apple and Microsoft of this industry. Its a weird world as both of them are working hand in glove in Syria as we speak.

only difference being that one is under the control of the govt and if they stray and get busted - severe repercussions will take place. our free media and snowden like characters to keep them in check further.

while the other is free willy and answers to no one. But you give too much ' power' to our CIA. This is same one that drones you btw...

 

[Kompromat]

@JayAtl

Thats not what implying.

You and i see things in.

Black and white
Good and bad
Legal or illegal

These are areas where govts operate. Then there is the 'grey area'. This where entities like CIA and ISI operate. They have only one principle.

Useful.
Not useful.

Both organizations have their corporate interests. For the most part they are not answerable.

My point is that we shouldn't see their work as per 'our comprehension'. We can only make sense of what they do, if we look at it from 'their perspective FIRST'.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Drones killing terrorists is okay with me... But these drones should be operated by Pakistan...

 

[JayAtl]

@JayAtl

Thats not what implying.

You and i see things in.

Black and white
Good and bad
Legal or illegal

These are areas where govts operate. Then there is the 'grey area'. This where entities like CIA and ISI operate. They have only one principle.

Useful.
Not useful.

Both organizations have their corporate interests. For the most part they are not answerable.

My point is that we shouldn't see their work as per 'our comprehension'. We can only make sense of what they do, if we look at it from 'their perspective FIRST'.

okay allow me to tell you my vision of pak getting out of this ' rut'.

The problem is Pakistan is stuck in a perfect storm. You have 3 legs to change while others have one i.e. Your political, economic and military is in disarray. For example: India has terrorists, but they have strong political base, economical base and military is under the govt.

I will tell you upfront it is a grim view... but you don't need us to come help you. you can do it yourself w/ pride

1. it will be a generation of hard work before Pak becomes " okay" , because it will take a generation of re education of your youth from the stranglehold the jihadis have on them . By that I mean is, pakistan was the most forward thinking of any islamic countries. the majority were tolerant and many educated. all of this is gone down the drain, so it will take you a generation to change that mindset from pak the home of conspiracies and
intolerance- to forward thinkers

2. You will have to make the country in the vision of your founding father- secular mindset. This does not mean you have to change your constitution, but just like Mao screwed up China, Zia u haq ( was it he who radicalized you guys constitution?)has to be looked by the citizenry as a screw up

3. You must truly be a democracy i.e. military and ISI must come under govt. control. else you are screwed. you can't have 3 branches doing their own thing... it's insane

4. You must have foreign policy that is run by intellects and not by jihadi groups at the behest of the military

5. You must work to improve your economy to give your youth jobs and it would help if you have western like tax collection system. It is killing your economy otherwise.

6. This one you going to hate. You must give up on the concept of getting India's part of Kashmir. It is not going to happen and every second, minute, day, month and year you formulate ways to get it back only distracts from you guys moving forward. This fixation is detrimental to you more than to India. It is dragging and distracting Pakistan down. There is a better chance of China taking over Japan that India giving up its side of Kashmir-ever. all these jihadi's you guys have home grown are only turning inwards now. by now you must see this if you have reality based chance to move forward.

 

[Kompromat]

@JayAtl

I differ and agree with you on some points. Pakistan has been a war zone and the 'go to' place for the highest refugee population in the world.

Pakistan wasn't what it is before 1979. I hope that with the war clouds dispersing, the peace will return to my land and my people.

 

[JayAtl]

@JayAtl

I differ and agree with you on some points. Pakistan has been a war zone and the 'go to' place for the highest refugee population in the world.

Pakistan wasn't what it is before 1979. I hope that with the war clouds dispersing, the peace will return to my land and my people.

aeronaut, my friend- Please understand this, war was not thrust upon pakistan as is the excuse.

do you agree we stayed back this time? what is result? you STILL support the same guys you did in the 80's !!!!!!!!!!

Pakistan created the war and the current situation...i.e. Osama and taliban was not foreign to Pakistan before 911. because pakistan's miltray and intelligence wants the taliban to rule!

We Fvcked up in the 80's by not stabilizing AF - YES! even so, had we stayed we would have not chosen your alternative aka taliban.

If you disagree - can you tell me if the US had not walked off , who do you think we would have supported? Taliban... Osama likes?

 

[Kompromat]

@JayAtl

Well Taliban were no aliens but former Mujahideen branded into a new organization to fill the gap after the US left us with 7 million refugees, a boiling civil war and Al-Qaida. We were also sanctioned.

We did what we had to do, and work with whom we had to work to secure our vital interests, because our 'ally' wasn't interested in post war reconstruction of Afghanistan.

Both countries have paid a heavy price for their respective 'fuckups'. I don't think its still too late to win this war, however that would have to be done by political solutions and long term commitment.

Afghanistan is broken, it needs to be rebuilt and included in the international community to avoid it from becoming the bastion of Al_Qaida once more.

 

[JayAtl]

@JayAtl

Well Taliban were no aliens but former Mujahideen branded into a new organization to fill the gap after the US left us with 7 million refugees, a boiling civil war and Al-Qaida. We were also sanctioned.

We did what we had to do, and work with whom we had to work to secure our vital interests, because our 'ally' wasn't interested in post war reconstruction of Afghanistan.

Both countries have paid a heavy price for their respective 'fuckups'. I don't think its still too late to win this war, however that would have to be done by political solutions and long term commitment.

Afghanistan is broken, it needs to be rebuilt and included in the international community to avoid it from becoming the bastion of Al_Qaida once more.

do you agree we stayed back this time? what is result? you STILL support the same guys you did in the 80's !!

Pak did not support aliens- because the guys to fill the gap are the guys you always were going to use...

so by staying back in 80's how would it have it changed ?

 

[Kompromat]

If the US had stayed in the 80s, we could have solved the political issues, there would have been no civil war, there also would have been a semi functional govt, security, economic, education apparatus as well as the resettlement of the refugees.

It would have denied the likes of Osama to do as they please.

 

[nair]

As every technology has its pros and cons so is Drones..... But i am sure no one doubts the effectiveness of drones (unless 1 is a terror sympathizer)..... Yes there are chances of innocent civilians getting killed.....But its the same drone which killed baitulla and his successor.....

Drone is the best technology available for such operations...... May be some one will develop better technology soon.....