'I have planned to drop out of school' - face of secular India

[rafiqali]

Biggest problem is that RSS has a staunchly Brahminical core - and backward castes were used as foot soldiers in the past.

UP was lost due to shabby treatment to Kalyan Singh

In MP, OBC Uma Bharti was put in cold storage

In Karnataka, Brahmin Anant Kumar, with zero grass roots presence, was allowed to finish OBC Yedurappa.

RSS has to realize that Brahmins have always been advisers, never Kings. OBCs are the new Kshatriyas.

Good beginning has been made through OBC Modi and Shivraj Singh. Similar leader must be found in UP.

Hindutva alone cannot have numbers. It has to be supported by a few strong castes. Lets see if Modi finally is made PM, and not a rootless Brahmin like Jaitley or Shushma in the name of compromise and electoral arrangements.

 

[Black Widow]

Actually MP has Shivraj Singh, chhattisgarh has Raman singh and Gujarat has Modi. Who does UP have ? Without a strong honest leader UP still remains lost.

How is Rajnath Singh as a person and a leader ? ....... I am not terribly impressed by his character. Is there anymore more genuine ?

Actually Nitish Kumar with his communal bull$hit and Yadav votebank would be good for UP.

Shivraje jee: He was never CM candidate. Have u heard about Uma Bharati and Babu lal gaud? Shivraj jee was underdog, once given chance his achievement came out ..

Modi jee: He too was underdog, got CM post after a turmoil in BJP.. did "Chance pe dance"

Raman Singh jee: He too was underdog.. Did "Chance pe dance"

Leader in UP: there are many good leaders in UP. if there will be any shortage, RSS will deliver some Pracharak..

 

[Mritunjaya]

Biggest problem is that RSS has a staunchly Brahminical core - and backward castes were used as foot soldiers in the past.

UP was lost due to shabby treatment to Kalyan Singh

In MP, OBC Uma Bharti was put in cold storage

In Karnataka, Brahmin Anant Kumar, with zero grass roots presence, was allowed to finish OBC Yedurappa.

RSS has to realize that Brahmins have always been advisers, never Kings. OBCs are the new Kshatriyas.

Good beginning has been made through OBC Modi and Shivraj Singh. Similar leader must be found in UP.

Hindutva alone cannot have numbers. It has to be supported by a few strong castes. Lets see if Modi finally is made PM, and not a rootless Brahmin like Jaitley or Shushma in the name of compromise and electoral arrangements.

I am unaware of RSS core but they are nothing without their karyakartas and there is no casteism there. BJP on the other hand seems to have had a Brahmin core (like congress has a minority core). But for the last 10 odd years that is changing. Today it appears that only leaders with genuine mass base gets to call the shots.

That means, Sushma Swaraj, Jaitley, Advani, Murli Manohar Joshi, Ananth kumar etc will be out soon enough unless they prove their usefulness to the other genuine leaders.

Is Kalyan singh a yadav ?

Shivraje jee: He was never CM candidate. Have u heard about Uma Bharati and Babu lal gaud? Shivraj jee was underdog, once given chance his achievement came out ..

Modi jee: He too was underdog, got CM post after a turmoil in BJP.. did "Chance pe dance"

Raman Singh jee: He too was underdog.. Did "Chance pe dance"

Leader in UP: there are many good leaders in UP. if there will be any shortage, RSS will deliver some Pracharak..

I think that is part of the reason why Amit Shah is in UP ..... to access the leadership there and check out some RSS leadership. At least I hope that is why he is there.

 

[rafiqali]

I am unaware of RSS core but they are nothing without their karyakartas and there is no casteism there. BJP on the other hand seems to have had a Brahmin core (like congress has a minority core). But for the last 10 odd years that is changing. Today it appears that only leaders with genuine mass base gets to call the shots.

That means, Sushma Swaraj, Jaitley, Advani, Murli Manohar Joshi, Ananth kumar etc will be out soon enough unless they prove their usefulness to the other genuine leaders.

Is Kalyan singh a yadav ?



I think that is part of the reason why Amit Shah is in UP ..... to access the leadership there and check out some RSS leadership. At least I hope that is why he is there.

Unfortunately, it is the bitter reality. RSS is a brahminical, specifically a Chitpavan, organization.

They shirk from caste politics, but caste is a reality of Hindu society. Lately, they have perhaps realized that the OBC masses have to be carried along with their caste baggage. The resurgent OBCs are not going to give up their caste identity. Caste equations have to be accomodated within Hindutva paradigm.

Kalyan Singh is a Lodh rajput, an OBC agricultural caste. Same as Shivraj Singh.

UP is a caste cesspool. Forward castes, which vote BJP, are not more than 15%. To get 25-30% votes to win UP, at least one other major Non-Yadav, Non-SC caste is needed becoz Muslims plus Yadav make 25% or more. Maybe Jats in West Up, Kurmis in Central Up. But its a tough fight.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

RSS is a hardcore anti casteist organization. They even went into trouble with a number of temples and their powerful jathedars and purohits to allow dalits. They even installed Dalit priests in some temples where they were not even allowed to enter!
In spite of all actions what do you see?
You see that the leaders were BORN as hindu brahmins. And you call the Org Brahminical. So tell me who is casteist?

Unfortunately, it is the bitter reality. RSS is a brahminical, specifically a Chitpavan, organization.

They shirk from caste politics, but caste is a reality of Hindu society. Lately, they have perhaps realized that the OBC masses have to be carried along with their caste baggage. The resurgent OBCs are not going to give up their caste identity. Caste equations have to be accomodated within Hindutva paradigm.

Kalyan Singh is a Lodh rajput, an OBC agricultural caste. Same as Shivraj Singh.

UP is a caste cesspool. Forward castes, which vote BJP, are not more than 15%. To get 25-30% votes to win UP, at least one other major Non-Yadav, Non-SC caste is needed becoz Muslims plus Yadav make 25% or more. Maybe Jats in West Up, Kurmis in Central Up. But its a tough fight.

 

[sovcomflot]

Seems some just want to hate us muslims. Why does Congress allow funding of Deobands by the Saudis ? Change the extremist mullahs with moderates and the situation in UP will change.

Blame your govt first for allowing Deoband and wahabbis to run amok for sake of bribes and vote bankism.

 

[Mritunjaya]

Unfortunately, it is the bitter reality. RSS is a brahminical, specifically a Chitpavan, organization.

They shirk from caste politics, but caste is a reality of Hindu society. Lately, they have perhaps realized that the OBC masses have to be carried along with their caste baggage. The resurgent OBCs are not going to give up their caste identity. Caste equations have to be accomodated within Hindutva paradigm.

Kalyan Singh is a Lodh rajput, an OBC agricultural caste. Same as Shivraj Singh.

UP is a caste cesspool. Forward castes, which vote BJP, are not more than 15%. To get 25-30% votes to win UP, at least one other major Non-Yadav, Non-SC caste is needed becoz Muslims plus Yadav make 25% or more. Maybe Jats in West Up, Kurmis in Central Up. But its a tough fight.

Ya with reservation getting stronger and providing an easier route in a demanding world the caste tensions are only going to increase in India.

With every successive generation using reservation their caste identity is only going to get stronger. It is now impossible to get rid of caste lines in India, though caste line may get thinner and disappear between general category (non reservation) Hindus.

Is there any Yadav leader with mass support who can be weaned way from Mulayam ?

Seems some just want to hate us muslims. Why does Congress allow funding of Deobands by the Saudis ? Change the extremist mullahs with moderates and the situation in UP will change.

Blame your govt first for allowing Deoband and wahabbis to run amok for sake of bribes and vote bankism.

That is a rather simplistic view of things.

No one hates just for the fun of hating. People hate what is being done to their societies. Deobands funding is part of the problem but minority appeasement is the larger issue. Actions that makes certain sections believe they deserve special treatment and privileges. That is one sure way to ensure schisms in societies.

 

[sovcomflot]

Ya with reservation getting stronger and providing an easier route in a demanding world the caste tensions are only going to increase in India.

With every successive generation using reservation their caste identity is only going to get stronger. It is now impossible to get rid of caste lines in India, though caste line may get thinner and disappear between general category (non reservation) Hindus.

Is there any Yadav leader with mass support who can be weaned way from Mulayam ?



That is a rather simplistic view of things.

No one hates just for the fun of hating. People hate what is being done to their societies. Deobands funding is part of the problem but minority appeasement is the larger issue. Actions that makes certain sections believe they deserve special treatment and privileges. That is one sure way to ensure schisms in societies.

blah blah from a person who hates muslims,sikhs,christians etc.

 

[Mritunjaya]

RSS is a hardcore anti casteist organization. They even went into trouble with a number of temples and their powerful jathedars and purohits to allow dalits. They even installed Dalit priests in some temples where they were not even allowed to enter!
In spite of all actions what do you see?
You see that the leaders were BORN as hindu brahmins. And you call the Org Brahminical. So tell me who is casteist?

I think his larger point is that irrespective of what RSS wants, reservation has ensured that Caste in India will never die.

So its better that RSS wake up from their Utopian dream of a casteless India and start accepting the caste realities.

 

[rafiqali]

RSS is a hardcore anti casteist organization. They even went into trouble with a number of temples and their powerful jathedars and purohits to allow dalits. They even installed Dalit priests in some temples where they were not even allowed to enter!
In spite of all actions what do you see?
You see that the leaders were BORN as hindu brahmins. And you call the Org Brahminical. So tell me who is casteist?

Symbolism and public perceptions matter a lot in politics. No one remembers the Dalit priests, but all know that the top leadership is Brahmin. also that rootless Barhmins enjoy undeserved power in BJP. Of course, one has to accept that an ideological organization must keep some positions for ideologues if the party is to have a future.

And the past behaviour towards Kalyan--Uma--Yedurappa has alienated a lot of OBCs. RSS / BJP has to make amends for it.

Now that Modi has been selected, it wont harm to publicize his OBC status in Caste conscious states like UP / Bihar where there is a strong perception that BJP is a Forward Caste party.

 

[Mritunjaya]

blah blah from a person who hates muslims,sikhs,christians etc.

LOL......... if you have already made up your mind why waste time in posting ?

I don't hate anybody ..... I am just intolerant towards idiots and hypocrites. Which unfortunately is what PDF is all about.

 

[sovcomflot]

LOL......... if you have already made up your mind why waste time in posting ?

Yeah ,seen your posts about other religions.That was enough to tell.

 

[rafiqali]

Ya with reservation getting stronger and providing an easier route in a demanding world the caste tensions are only going to increase in India.

With every successive generation using reservation their caste identity is only going to get stronger. It is now impossible to get rid of caste lines in India, though caste line may get thinner and disappear between general category (non reservation) Hindus.

Is there any Yadav leader with mass support who can be weaned way from Mulayam ?



That is a rather simplistic view of things.

No one hates just for the fun of hating. People hate what is being done to their societies. Deobands funding is part of the problem but minority appeasement is the larger issue. Actions that makes certain sections believe they deserve special treatment and privileges. That is one sure way to ensure schisms in societies.

Nothing wrong with castes as long as they do not fragment the majority vote. Castes have a long history and provides a social security network. They cannot be forcibly done away and will grow much stronger before they weakens.

RSS should not encourage caste, but use it to get power in Caste crazy states like UP and Bihar.

 

[LURKER]

Nothing wrong with castes as long as they do not fragment the majority vote. Castes have a long history and provides a social security network. They cannot be forcibly done away and will grow much stronger before they weakens.

RSS should not encourage caste, but use it to get power in Caste crazy states like UP and Bihar.

Are you a shia ? What is the equation between shias and sunnis in UP. I know there's friction between them in parts of UP specially in Lucknow where shia-sunni riots are frequent. Which party do the shias traditionally support ?

 

[Black Widow]

Unfortunately, it is the bitter reality. RSS is a brahminical, specifically a Chitpavan, organization.

They shirk from caste politics, but caste is a reality of Hindu society. Lately, they have perhaps realized that the OBC masses have to be carried along with their caste baggage. The resurgent OBCs are not going to give up their caste identity. Caste equations have to be accomodated within Hindutva paradigm.

Kalyan Singh is a Lodh rajput, an OBC agricultural caste. Same as Shivraj Singh.

UP is a caste cesspool. Forward castes, which vote BJP, are not more than 15%. To get 25-30% votes to win UP, at least one other major Non-Yadav, Non-SC caste is needed becoz Muslims plus Yadav make 25% or more. Maybe Jats in West Up, Kurmis in Central Up. But its a tough fight.

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