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I am getting sick of hearing this free speech excuse for hate crimes

Raja.Pakistani

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I am getting sick of hearing this freedom of speech excuse as a justification of bigotry and hate crimes. These bigot know Muslims are emotional and sensitive about their beliefs yet they keep poking at them and then sitting back with satisfaction when they react that way. Never mind that innocent people die so we can have a laugh and feel self smug.

The way to change people is through dialogue, education and respect not by insulting them. They are not going to change over night and insulting them and taunting them is certainly not helping either


Message for Muslims

 
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Maybe if you understand the background of this freedom of speech you may not feel so sick. Europe in the middle ages went through religious persecution if alternate thoughts were expressed as opposed to the one defined by the Roman Church. The turmoil the Europeans went through and the sacrifice made by Europeans resulted ultimately in the freedom of speech as it broke the shackles of Roman Church. For example, Galileo was arrested for heresy and his publications prohibited by Church.

That is the reason why Europeans cherish this hard earned right. Just because some fool misuse it, they are not going to compromise on this right.


If you want to punish these fools, do so and pursue the legal aspect. Did anyone approach the U.S courts to prosecute this idiot?
 
That is the reason why Europeans cherish this hard earned right. Just because some fool misuse it, they are not going to compromise on this right.
I have nothing against appreciating the right of freedom of speech. I am against abusing it and using it as an excuse to express your bigotry and hate. Also your right to free speech comes with a responsibility to use it conscientiously.
 
Dude, they are trolls. Nothing else.

A troll is someone who posts inflammatory material, or exhibits eccentric behavior on the Internet just to anger others to gain attention.

That's exactly what they are doing. And yes, they are misusing freedom of speech this way.

By feeding them, we are doing just that. The best thing is to ignore trolls. Period.

Yes, Muslims are sensitive and emotional. But they shouldn't be! :angry: They must acknowledge reality.

It is possible to counter trolls in cases that have space for intellectual discussion.

You may insult a troll, you may troll a troll, but to break a troll's intellect, is to truly destroy him.
 
Better to express these things in words than by violence, yes?

no..neither in words nor in actions


If i abuse your mum and you give me punch on my nose then we both should be blamed. I should blame for my abusing words and provoking and you should blame for violence

I am sure if someone made a film like this about the Jewish religion in USA you would be arrested and branded an anti-Semite :)
 
That's exactly what they are doing. And yes, they are misusing freedom of speech this way.

By feeding them, we are doing just that. The best thing is to ignore trolls. Period.

You are right. I am against any kind of violence over this issue that's why i posted video in my opening post as a message to Muslims

If its clear that these people are misusing freedom of speech and their intentions are bad then why they don't get punishment for hate crime? why they are free to misuse it?
 
Maybe if you understand the background of this freedom of speech you may not feel so sick. Europe in the middle ages went through religious persecution if alternate thoughts were expressed as opposed to the one defined by the Roman Church. The turmoil the Europeans went through and the sacrifice made by Europeans resulted ultimately in the freedom of speech as it broke the shackles of Roman Church. For example, Galileo was arrested for heresy and his publications prohibited by Church.

That is the reason why Europeans cherish this hard earned right. Just because some fool misuse it, they are not going to compromise on this right.


If you want to punish these fools, do so and pursue the legal aspect. Did anyone approach the U.S courts to prosecute this idiot?


Well, lets see the hypocrisy of all this shall we:

"Holy or special places are vulnerable to non-Indian forces, which do not know about the meaning and purpose of the places and often destroy the sites for economic purposes."
Read more:Protecting Native American Sacred Sites - ICTMN.com Protecting Native American Sacred Sites - ICTMN.com

The American Indian Religious Freedom Act (AIRFA) of the 1970s and later, provided directives from U.S. presidents that federal agencies needed to consult with tribal communities about actions that might affect tribal heritage and sacred sites on federal land.

The Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act (NAGPRA) was an outgrowth and legal version of AIRFA. Many criticized AIRFA for not having effective enforcement powers for tribal interests. NAGPRA extended and created some limited enforcement powers over the disposition of Indian ancestral remains, funeral gifts, and significant ceremonial bundles. NAGPRA addressed federal lands, museums, and organizations that were holders of Indian materials subject to repatriation.

Read more:Protecting Native American Sacred Sites - ICTMN.com Protecting Native American Sacred Sites - ICTMN.com
The Recognition of Native American sacred sites in the United States could be described as "specific, discrete, narrowly delineated location on Federal land that is identified by an Indian tribe, or Indian individual determined to be an appropriately authoritative representative of an Indian religion, as sacred by virtue of its established religious significance to, or ceremonial use by, an Indian religion".The sacred places are believed to "have their own 'spiritual properties and significance'".

Law taken from wiki Recognition of Native American sacred sites in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Holocaust denial is illegal in a number of European countries. Many countries also have broader laws that criminalize genocide denial. Of the countries that ban Holocaust denial, a number (Austria, Germany, Hungary, and Romania) were among the perpetrators of the Holocaust, and many of these also ban other elements associated with Nazism, such as Nazi symbols

Another law from wiki Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you want me to go on? How come there is NO freedom of speech / expressions or whatsoever in either of those which I presented up there? How come there ARE LAWS for these? But its ok to thrash any other faith? Where is the equality rubbish now?

I am jut angry at the hypocrisy! I do not support HOW the Muslims reacted...But it is not the 1st time they have been provoked! It is disappointing they did not learn from the previous attempts at their protests and how bad they make Islam look..
 
Well, lets see the hypocrisy of all this shall we:


Read more:Protecting Native American Sacred Sites - ICTMN.com Protecting Native American Sacred Sites - ICTMN.com



Read more:Protecting Native American Sacred Sites - ICTMN.com Protecting Native American Sacred Sites - ICTMN.com


Law taken from wiki Recognition of Native American sacred sites in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Another law from wiki Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you want me to go on? How come there is NO freedom of speech / expressions or whatsoever? How come there ARE LAWS for these? But its ok to thrash anyother faith? Where is the equality rubbish now?

I am jut angry at the hypocrisy! I do not support HOW the Muslims reacted...But it is not the 1st time they have been provoked! It is disappointing they did not learn from the previous attempts at their protests and how bad they make Islam look..

What about Burning Quran day by Florida pastor? Mr Obama and Mrs Clinton spoke as usual that these are evil acts and don't represent the values of USA but at the same time protect their right of doing these acts . This is hypocrisy
 
What I meant to say is they literally have LAWS protecting American Indian sites of worship, cemetery and stuff! But it is ok to burn the Quran?

They have LAWS not to talk about holocaust- something which happened based on an ethnic group and you are not even allowed to research it to deny it! Yet it is FREEDOM OF SPEECH/ EXPRESSION to make cartoons and movies about another's Prophet?

Why the hypocrisy?
 
You are right. I am against any kind of violence over this issue that's why i posted video in my opening post as a message to Muslims

If its clear that these people are misusing freedom of speech and their intentions are bad then why they don't get punishment for hate crime? why they are free to misuse it?

What that troll did not constitute as hate crime under US Law.

Although, speech that incite violence, threatening the lives of others, do get punished in the US. That man most certainly did try to incite violence. Jews in particular - considering he initially claimed himself as an Israeli-American Jew.

Now, it's very likely that he is a raging anti-Semite within. I do not know how he'll face the law. He has a history of forgery, financial fraud, identity fraud and drugs. He appears to be a very difficult man who has achieved very little in his life.

Why they do it? Well, Western people are generally more likely to have self-esteem issues due to their mostly low-context culture relative to their Eastern counterparts.

At times, it can be attributed to total ignorance. Many Westerners still think Islam = Arab. They don't know that most Muslims reside outside of Arabia. Turks and Persians are not Arabs obviously. Americans in particular know very little about other cultures.

And people like Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer made entire careers out of criticizing religion. It's all about the money. Hell, even Christmas in the US is all about money (yes, it is really true). Money and attention is what those people run after. It's a part of their culture. This money culture.

I think what Sashan said is pretty spot on. But this is the US we are talking about, not Europe.

I mean, look at it this way: We are looking at a country who's population majority descended from slaves and immigrants and using some fake Roman heritage.

Yes, it is technologically very advanced, it is a very young nation, a nation with a great source of knowledge, and it's an entertainment and media superpower. It is this combination makes the United States a very powerful nation.

But with the ever increasing complex world partly contributed by the US, I doubt if they can tie all the ends together in the long term. They just don't have that resolve like the British had because of their history and heritage.

If they were truly committed to Afghanistan, would they have done something quickly? It was too late, since the sheer wrath of the Afghans and the Taliban came about.

Westerners must understand that Muslims, particularly in countries like Afghanistan just aren't ready to be this open for the most part.

Rule of thumb: It takes at least three generations for an entire society to change a particular aspect of a high context culture due to external or internal stimuli. High context cultures are mostly prevalent in Muslim-majority nations.

So it's impossible to force them to be more open. They just aren't ready.

So therefore, it's either self-esteem, ignorance, or both.

Sorry if that were a bit long :)
 
If you keep getting sick of people using their free speech then it would be best to carry around several plastic bags wherever you go because most people have the basic right of free speech even if that means throwing around insults and rightly so.

I'm sure no one wants to see a sick person in public. :coffee:


What I meant to say is they literally have LAWS protecting American Indian sites of worship, cemetery and stuff! But it is ok to burn the Quran?

They have LAWS not to talk about holocaust- something which happened based on an ethnic group and you are not even allowed to research it to deny it! Yet it is FREEDOM OF SPEECH/ EXPRESSION to make cartoons and movies about another's Prophet?

Why the hypocrisy?

All sites of worship should be protected. Similarly all places of public or private property should be protected, any vandalisation towards property whether religious sites or not, is a crime. This is common sense.

As far as I know, there are no laws against holocaust denial in the USA. In some European countries yes, but they should be scrapped.
 
If you keep getting sick of people using their free speech then it would be best to carry around several plastic bags wherever you go because most people have the basic right of free speech even if that means throwing around insults and rightly so.

I'm sure no one wants to see a sick person in public. :coffee:




All sites of worship should be protected. Similarly all places of public or private property should be protected, any vandalisation towards property whether religious sites or not, is a crime. This is common sense.

As far as I know, there are no laws against holocaust denial in the USA. In some European countries yes, but they should be scrapped.

I beg to differ....I have been thought to respect others' believes/ land and culture...It is called civilized + tolerance which USA and Europe and also OZ love to show off in their media!
 
I am getting sick of hearing this freedom of speech excuse as a justification of bigotry and hate crimes. These bigot know Muslims are emotional and sensitive about their beliefs yet they keep poking at them and then sitting back with satisfaction when they react that way. Never mind that innocent people die so we can have a laugh and feel self smug.

The way to change people is through dialogue, education and respect not by insulting them. They are not going to change over night and insulting them and taunting them is certainly not helping either


Message for Muslims

Then don't listen. No one forces you to use you tube....which is all about freedom of expression. Do what the scientologist do...forbid members to surf the net...as it scrambles their easily manipulated minds.

Maybe if you understand the background of this freedom of speech you may not feel so sick. Europe in the middle ages went through religious persecution if alternate thoughts were expressed as opposed to the one defined by the Roman Church. The turmoil the Europeans went through and the sacrifice made by Europeans resulted ultimately in the freedom of speech as it broke the shackles of Roman Church. For example, Galileo was arrested for heresy and his publications prohibited by Church.

That is the reason why Europeans cherish this hard earned right. Just because some fool misuse it, they are not going to compromise on this right.


If you want to punish these fools, do so and pursue the legal aspect. Did anyone approach the U.S courts to prosecute this idiot?

Prosecute for what? I hate Rob Snieder films...can't prosecute him for them though...

no..neither in words nor in actions


If i abuse your mum and you give me punch on my nose then we both should be blamed. I should blame for my abusing words and provoking and you should blame for violence

I am sure if someone made a film like this about the Jewish religion in USA you would be arrested and branded an anti-Semite :)

They have plenty of anti-semetic material on the net...name some one arrested for it.
 
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Well, lets see the hypocrisy of all this shall we:


Read more:Protecting Native American Sacred Sites - ICTMN.com Protecting Native American Sacred Sites - ICTMN.com



Read more:Protecting Native American Sacred Sites - ICTMN.com Protecting Native American Sacred Sites - ICTMN.com


Law taken from wiki Recognition of Native American sacred sites in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Another law from wiki Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you want me to go on? How come there is NO freedom of speech / expressions or whatsoever in either of those which I presented up there? How come there ARE LAWS for these? But its ok to thrash any other faith? Where is the equality rubbish now?

I am jut angry at the hypocrisy! I do not support HOW the Muslims reacted...But it is not the 1st time they have been provoked! It is disappointing they did not learn from the previous attempts at their protests and how bad they make Islam look..
No hypocrisy...muslim holy places are protected too..if I burn down a mosque...I will be arrested. Now see what I did there? I took the things claimed...showed them incorrect. Not to hard....actually less work than burning down buildings and murdering.
 
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