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How would a J-10 & F-16 go up against each other?

Max The Boss

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How would a J-10 & F-16 go up against each other?

Pakistan Air force will use J-10 in the future, 36 J-10 jets will be delivered to Pakistan in 2014-15.

Pakistan Air force already using F-16, All F-16 jets will be upgraded to F-16 Block 52 Standard; Pakistan will use F-16 Block 52 jets in 2011-12.

Pakistan Air force all F-16 jets will be F-16 Block 52 in 2015.
 
J-10 Vs F-16 Technical Comparison

The F-16 was designed from the outset as a dog-fighter. The moderate sweep of the wings and aspect ratios were ideal for this. The trade-off however, was greater supersonic resistance. The thrust offered by the two engine options on the F-16 is impressive even to this day. TWR in air combat is about 1.15, ensuring impressive climbing rates and sustained turn rates. As noted, the F-16 sacrificed supersonic performance, not only in its wing design but also in its fixed air intakes. In supersonic flight, engine thrust is lost. While it can reach Mach 2.0, pragmatically it has poor supersonic performance.

While the F-16 sacrificed supersonic performance for subsonic dogfighting, the J-10 did not make the same sacrifice. Thus, while when the F-16 was designed, turning dogfights were what was projected as the bread and butter of air combat, when the J-10 was being designed, the BVR era had arrived (or re-arrived). The J-10s aerodynamic design, including wing design and inlet design, take this into account. For instance, the J-10 visibly has greater wing sweep and a variable inlet. With the J-10B, a DSI intake. While the J-10B sacrifices maximum theoretical top speeds with its DSI intakes, for all relevant combat speeds, it gives the J-10 superior performance.

Under modern BVR conditions and higher altitude combat, the J-10 is significantly superior to the F-16. This is also reflected in its higher instantaneous turn rates. The Mirage-2000s have been a point of major concern both for the Pakistanis and the Turkish air forces, because of these aerodynamic issues, despite the Mirages weak engines. The Greeks, who operated both the Mirage 2000 and F-16C considered the F-16 to be better at low altitude, low speed, hard turning fights, and Mirage 2000 to be superior at hi-hi.The F-16 would have to attempt to survive the first merge in an air combat scenario, which becomes increasingly suicidal with high off-bore sight missiles. BVR further compounds these problems for the F-16s. In previous eras, flying hi and fast was fine, but you often had to come down low to engage a low flying enemy aircraft. Today, that becomes less relevant with longer range BVR missiles and look-down shoot-down capabilities.

The F-16 has also been adding weight over time and attempting to counterbalance this with increased engine thrust. However, since wing area remained the same, maneuverability has been sacrificed. Higher wing loading is particularly detrimental for higher altitude maneuverability. The J-10 on the other hand, has all the wing area it could ever need with a delta canard layout.

The newer block F-16s however, are great for low altitude air-to-ground missions. The high wing loading favors low fliers and the moderate wing sweep helps handling at lower speeds often necessary during ordnance delivery. The J-10 is thus not ideal for the CAS role. However, because of the range and payload advantages, the J-10 can be considered an effective deep striker. CAS was never a pressing need for the PLAAF, and the PAF has the JF-17 which is ideal for that role.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...houldve-invested-more-j-10s-7.html#post365392
 
o c'mon man i was n't expecting this argument. I mean can you hire a car for a dozer's role?

yes j-10 can be a better choice as far as it's price and operations types are concern
but don't forget our 20 years experience with f-16
we can utilize these birds much better and smarter then j-10
 
If PAF did not have the sanctions of the 90s and was assured a smooth supply of f16s, we would probabl never ahve gone down the J10 route. The problem remains one of assurance of supply of parts and ammo, which is not the case with F16s. On the other hand there have been no such problems with the Chinese. Their hardware is comparable and of reasonable quality but the supply chain is assured and this is peace of mind for PAF.
My 2 paisas worth on the main issue.
As to comparision of the 2 , F16 is battle proven and J10 has not really been revealed to the world. At the moment, J10 would probably lose out to F16bl52s on the basis of the quality of radar and superior missiles. it would probably win in a close encounter as it is more maneouverable and might be better at dog fights.
other than that till such time that we have an exercise by PAf utilizing both planes, we will not know the answer.
Araz
 
for me, if we didnt had a lost decade and every thing went up smoothly with F16 and other westren tecnologies flying in, we might have gone for a chines fighter even earlier then we are going now.
with out closeness to china and effort to lobbly with them against India, defence ties with china was always inevitable for me. with westren technology at our disposal, Pak in collaboration with chain would have developed something of there own much earlier!! the westren influence in chines projects like the JF17 and FC20 cannot be neglected!!

regards!
 
for me, if we didnt had a lost decade and every thing went up smoothly with F16 and other westren tecnologies flying in, we might have gone for a chines fighter even earlier then we are going now.
with out closeness to china and effort to lobbly with them against India, defence ties with china was always inevitable for me. with westren technology at our disposal, Pak in collaboration with chain would have developed something of there own much earlier!! the westren influence in chines projects like the JF17 and FC20 cannot be neglected!!

regards!

Please remember that the Thunder was virtually shelved by PAF, before the sanctions. I dont think the PAF would have bothered competing with the international market if F16s were available.
Araz
 
Please remember that the Thunder was virtually shelved by PAF, before the sanctions. I dont think the PAF would have bothered competing with the international market if F16s were available.
Araz

nice point, i got it!!
thankyou,

regards!
 
Please remember that the Thunder was virtually shelved by PAF, before the sanctions. I dont think the PAF would have bothered competing with the international market if F16s were available.
Araz

Ya I agree, I have seen Grippen losing to falcon.I ve even seen an Air force professional saying in an interview "Given suitable air power; you can't beat him" that was 4 5 years ago.now just compare falcon with Grippen.Grippen has evolved into 4.5++ SC capable Grippen NG and we are jumping in skies with Block 52.And Grippen was also with the ToT as compared to falcons.Even Israel became concerned with Grippen coming PAF way but thanks to the High ups Grippen was dropped against Falcon after "Evaluation".I don't know when we will come out of "Falcon" Spirit:disagree:
 
Ya I agree, I have seen Grippen losing to falcon.I ve even seen an Air force professional saying in an interview "Given suitable air power; you can't beat him" that was 4 5 years ago.now just compare falcon with Grippen.Grippen has evolved into 4.5++ SC capable Grippen NG and we are jumping in skies with Block 52.And Grippen was also with the ToT as compared to falcons.Even Israel became concerned with Grippen coming PAF way but thanks to the High ups Grippen was dropped against Falcon after "Evaluation".I don't know when we will come out of "Falcon" Spirit:disagree:

i do not want to derail this conversation but an ex RAF pilot told me that the RAF was really worried the gripen might give them a run for their money.
As to the gripen episode for PAF, i still believe, it is a good step we were denied the gripen. An American engine would have been a major drawback and we would not have escaped the sanction trap either. Personally I dont see why we cant build our Thunder to be a Pakistani version of Gripen, which is what it really is.
Gripen was dropped over falcon because of American pressure and the fact that the same pressure would have ensured that you would have never gotten Gripen even if you had not chosen the falcon. Also please comnsider that Gripen NG will not be available before 2015 and PAF needed plans yesterday.
Lets get back to J10 VS F16 please.
Araz
 

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