How Vietnamese still suffer thanks to America. Documentary

[somsak]

It wasn't exclusively used in Vietnam.
Agent Orange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Use outside Malaya and Vietnam

3.1 Australia
3.2 Brazil
3.3 Cambodia
3.4 Canada
3.5 Guam
3.6 Korea
3.7 Laos
3.8 New Zealand
3.9 Philippines
3.10 Johnston Atoll
3.11 Okinawa, Japan
3.12 Thailand
3.13 United States

Your nose is growing like Penoccio. Please do not redefine the word "used". Everybody understand that in this context, it means using in warfare.

 

[BoQ77]

21.09.2014

50 years after the US military intervention in the Vietnam War, the weapons it used continue to harm the local population. Unexploded mines still take lives and the consequences of “Agent Orange” claim new victims. A defoliant used by the US Air Force to destroy forests where Vietcong guerrilla fighters were taking cover, “Agent Orange” is highly toxic to humans. The chemical not only severely harmed the health of those immediately exposed to it, but also led to birth defects in subsequent generations. Its impact is still being felt in Vietnam, where it is estimated that around 5 million people are suffering from its damaging effects. They call it their “orange pain.”



videolink for pakistan & china

That's a fact. It caused by former officials by accident ( mentioned that US troops were also affected ).
We could grow more if keep digging on history. We are mending it.

 

[NiceGuy]

Your nose is growing like Penoccio. Please do not redefine the word "used". Everybody understand that in this context, it means using in warfare.

'used' here means US put agent orange barrels in those countries, and transfer them to VN to spray on our jungle.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

You still paid for it in the form of inflation. Inflation is just as much of a tax as a direct tax, but even more insidious in that it not only taxes your current earnings but also your previous earnings. Whether the bank profit was actually a profit given the changing value of money in the interval is also questionable, and the way it was earned (speculations vs. commercial bank activities which boost the real economy) also influences whether those profits actually result in economic gains in other sectors. From my experiences - it did not. All other bailouts failed.

Inflation is insidious, true. But bank bailouts are far more productive to the real economy than Medicare.

Bank speculation resulted in private profits, true--but also tax revenue, which benefited everyone. And "real economy" lending to real estate is just as much speculation as trading derivatives, even if it's Joe Sixpack who is doing the speculating. No need to moralize, since the wholesome Main Street Americans who were beneficiaries of loans to the "real economy" before the crash became deadbeats after the crash. The only innocents are those who are victims of fraud (banks, institutional investors), not those who perpetrated the fraud (citizens who signed liar loans so they could speculate on real estate in Las Vegas, banks who lied about the quality of mortgage when repackaging them, ratings agencies who lied about the quality of the mortgage tranche while rating them, investment banks who lied about the contents of CDOs that they sold to institutional investors, etc.). Just because there are bad actors in the system doesn't mean the system is inherently bad.

What about electricity? Why not also privatize air? In the future, why not split regions into "air zones" where a utility has the right to control distribution of air, and people have chips attached to their lungs to monitor air volume intake per year? Those who don't pay get automatic paycheck deductions, and those who are in air debt too much are jailed. Why not? It is quite expensive to maintain quality air. "Don't be a debtor, switch to Google Air Resources today!"

The air is a public good. If a private company manufactures air, it is welcome to charge for it. Electricity should be paid for by the private market, since it is a privately-generated good.

 

[somsak]

American sphere of influence:
West Germany, capitalist, prosperous
South Korea, capitalist, prosperous
Japan, capitalist, prosperous

Soviet sphere of influence:
East Germany, communist, impoverished
Belarus, communist, impoverished
Vietnam, communist, impoverished

Chinese sphere of influence:
North Korea, communist, impoverished

Even China under communism was impoverished.

This is not a difficult decision to analyze. America promotes capitalism, and it has no territorial designs on Vietnam. The question isn't why Vietnam is making this choice, the question is why it took so long.

This was very true. Except the ridge between power.
When American power decline, those who orbit the US. become the ridge.
When Russia power decline, those who orbit Russia become the ridge.
These ridges country is like sitting on Earth's vocanic Ring of fire, the inter-continental plate shifting against each other.

As an example. When US starts VN war, she was the Super power vs Jungle country. South Vietnam was a country on the US orbit.
Once US force on VN falls, South Vietnam country was on fired, and finally conquered.

Since the war ravaged country or conquered/lost countries cannot be said to be prosperous. This is the reason of my exception.

'used' here means US put agent orange barrels in those countries, and transfer them to VN to spray on our jungle.

Right. Bro. But in this thread's context/story, we are talking about use meaning using in warfare to kill people intentionally.

 

[NiceGuy]

American sphere of influence:
West Germany, capitalist, prosperous
South Korea, capitalist, prosperous
Japan, capitalist, prosperous

Soviet sphere of influence:
East Germany, communist, impoverished
Belarus, communist, impoverished
Vietnam, communist, impoverished

Chinese sphere of influence:
North Korea, communist, impoverished

Even China under communism was impoverished.

This is not a difficult decision to analyze. America promotes capitalism, and it has no territorial designs on Vietnam. The question isn't why Vietnam is making this choice, the question is why it took so long.

Do u read the fable 'The dog and the wolf ' yet ?? And why the dog is fat when the wolf look gaunt and always hungry ??

The Dog and the Wolf


A GAUNT Wolf was almost dead with hunger when he happened to meet a House-dog who was passing by. “Ah, Cousin,” said the Dog. “I knew how it would be; your irregular life will soon be the ruin of you. Why do you not work steadily as I do, and get your food regularly given to you?” 1
“I would have no objection,” said the Wolf, “if I could only get a place.” 2
“I will easily arrange that for you,” said the Dog; “come with me to my master and you shall share my work.” 3
So the Wolf and the Dog went towards the town together. On the way there the Wolf noticed that the hair on a certain part of the Dog’s neck was very much worn away, so he asked him how that had come about. 4
“Oh, it is nothing,” said the Dog. “That is only the place where the collar is put on at night to keep me chained up; it chafes a bit, but one soon gets used to it.” 5
“Is that all?” said the Wolf. “Then good-bye to you, Master Dog.”
“BETTER STARVE FREE THAN BE A FAT SLAVE.”

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Inflation is insidious, true. But bank bailouts are far more productive to the real economy than Medicare.

Bank speculation resulted in private profits, true--but also tax revenue, which benefited everyone. And "real economy" lending to real estate is just as much speculation as trading derivatives, even if it's Joe Sixpack who is doing the speculating. No need to moralize, since the wholesome Main Street Americans who were beneficiaries of loans to the "real economy" before the crash became deadbeats after the crash. The only innocents are those who are victims of fraud (banks, institutional investors), not those who perpetrated the fraud (citizens who signed liar loans so they could speculate on real estate in Las Vegas, banks who lied about the quality of mortgage when repackaging them, ratings agencies who lied about the quality of the mortgage tranche while rating them, investment banks who lied about the contents of CDOs that they sold to institutional investors, etc.). Just because there are bad actors in the system doesn't mean the system is inherently bad.



The air is a public good. If a private company manufactures air, it is welcome to charge for it. Electricity should be paid for by the private market, since it is a privately-generated good.

The victims of fraud were not the banks - the banks were those who played with fire and got burned, as you pointed out. The "victim" banks and the "perpetuator" banks are the same institutions. They took a risk on their investments, that they made voluntarily, and got burned by it due to not taking into account market volatility. They fked up and the taxpayer foots the bill. The ratings companies of course suffered absolutely no consequences either.

Water is also a public good. Yet you are charged for it. Who manufactures land?

 

[somsak]

Some of your Chinese fellows claimed that US withdrew its troops from VN not because VN achieved victories, but because of anti-war movement inside US. That alone was enough of evidence that US citizens acknowledged the brutality of war to both side. Furthermore there are several efforts comming from US and other nations to fix the damage of the war. There are US funding effort to clean up Agent Orange in Da Nang, a British - US joint committe to find and disarm bomb left from the war, and charity funds for Agent Orange victim.

Of course the modern generation ( born from 1970 onwards) hardly feel any remorse or shames about US brutalities, because neither VNese nor American in that generation experienced the terror of war caused by both sides. So it's fine for them to be ignorant about that. The purpose of history class is not to provoke hatred and vengence, but to make younglings know about historical facts, and learn something from it.

We are VNese. We forgive but we don't forget. Please don't apply your standards to us.

I think people should be honest. The reason that US withdrew its troop from VN because she lost war, as simple as that.

Do u read the fable 'The dog and the wolf ' yet ?? And why the dog is fat when the wolf look gaunt and always hungry ??

Remarkable story.

 

[somsak]

VN friends here. Together we built a prosperous ASEAN.
Keep in mind ASEAN centrality. We will become one big family and no one can bully such a big union.

One day in the long future, this union may become a single country, the United States of ASEAN.
We should continue to this path of development.

It is stupid to be a pawn on the conflict of great powers. Look at South and North Koreas, is it stupid for relatives to fight each other
for the sake of global division of power between USSR and US?

Therefore how can small countries like all of us Not be bullied by larger nation? It is to group together tightly. Our people does not have inherent hate among others. We can be a single union. I foresee the prosperous ASEAN that one day in the long future, become a single federal state.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Do u read the fable 'The dog and the wolf ' yet ?? And why the dog is fat when the wolf look gaunt and always hungry ??

I don't agree with this. Better to survive, and plot a way to gain freedom. Death is permanent, death achieves nothing. As George C. Scott said in the movie Patton, "I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb bastard die for his country."

If resistance is an option, resist. If resistance means extinction, survive as a slave until you can successfully resist. I don't understand any other way of thinking. No one should be in a rush to get themselves killed for some romantic idealism.

The victims of fraud were not the banks - the banks were those who played with fire and got burned, as you pointed out. The "victim" banks and the "perpetuator" banks are the same institutions. They took a risk on their investments, that they made voluntarily, and got burned by it due to not taking into account market volatility. They fked up and the taxpayer foots the bill. The ratings companies of course suffered absolutely no consequences either.

Water is also a public good. Yet you are charged for it. Who manufactures land?

We don't pay for the water, we pay for the treatment of the water and its transportation.

Land originally belonged to the state, and was sold to the population. It has a market like anything else, and the price is high where there is a land shortage, and low where there is an abundance of land. It would seem that China is making new islands (or at least, making marginal islands into real islands) as we speak, and landfill creates new land all the time.

Regarding the banks, actually, because of internal firewalls, banks were simultaneously victims and perpetrators, as ridiculous as that sounds. The left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing, because even though they were nominally part of the same organization, they were not allowed to share information internally that would have revealed the truth. Another unintended consequence of our enlightened regulatory system.

But I wholeheartedly agree with you about the ratings agencies. They are frauds.

 

[Jlaw]

I think people should be honest. The reason that US withdrew its troop from VN because she lost war, as simple as that.


.

You know thats a lie. As much as I don't like US, I dislike liars more.

 

[Aepsilons]

@somsak ,

The American withdrawal from Vietnam was not because of tactical victory of the Vietnamese, because quite frankly the Americans won most of the battles the VPA and the Viet Cong. The American people were not in favor of the war and wanted an overall withdrawal of troops, which forced a policy change. Perhaps our American military professionals here in PDF can voice out a more authoritative point of view: @gambit , @CENTCOM .

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

This was very true. Except the ridge between power.
When American power decline, those who orbit the US. become the ridge.
When Russia power decline, those who orbit Russia become the ridge.
These ridges country is like sitting on Earth's vocanic Ring of fire, the inter-continental plate shifting against each other.

As an example. When US starts VN war, she was the Super power vs Jungle country. South Vietnam was a country on the US orbit.
Once US force on VN falls, South Vietnam country was on fired, and finally conquered.

Since the war ravaged country or conquered/lost countries cannot be said to be prosperous. This is the reason of my exception.



Right. Bro. But in this thread's context/story, we are talking about use meaning using in warfare to kill people intentionally.

History has not been kind to the satellites and pawns of great powers. If at all possible, it is best to be neutral, if it's not possible to be neutral, it's important to become a power in one's own right to ensure freedom of action. I do pity the "ridges," as you put it.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

We don't pay for the water, we pay for the treatment of the water and its transportation.

Land originally belonged to the state, and was sold to the population. It has a market like anything else, and the price is high where there is a land shortage, and low where there is an abundance of land. It would seem that China is making new islands (or at least, making marginal islands into real islands) as we speak, and landfill creates new land all the time.

Regarding the banks, actually, because of internal firewalls, banks were simultaneously victims and perpetrators, as ridiculous as that sounds. The left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing, because even though they were nominally part of the same organization, they were not allowed to share information internally that would have revealed the truth. Another unintended consequence of our enlightened regulatory system.

But I wholeheartedly agree with you about the ratings agencies. They are frauds.

You indeed pay for the water - many springs, rivers and water tables are owned by various parties and you must pay to get water. The California aqueduct has chain link fences around it to prevent people from taking water - what's the need if the water is public?

I cannot just go to a random body of water and open up a floating filtration plant - the owners of the water will force me off. I cannot even bottle mass quantities of it and move it elsewhere for filtration. Water is owned like anything else.

 

[NiceGuy]

Right. Bro. But in this thread's context/story, we are talking about use meaning using in warfare to kill people intentionally.

In fact, US didnt use it to kill people intentionally. . Agent orange is a kind of herbicide , its was former South VN president Ngo Dinh Diem who request to use it to clear the jungle where our soldiers can hide.

In mid-1961, President Ngo Dinh Diem of South Vietnam asked the United States to conduct aerial herbicide spraying in his country. In August of that year, the South Vietnamese Air Force initiated herbicide operations with American help. But Diem's request launched a policy debate in the White House and the State and Defense Departments.[1] However, U.S. officials considered using it, pointing out that the British had already used herbicides and defoliants during the Malayan Emergency in the 1950s. In November 1961, PresidentJohn F. Kennedy authorized the start of Operation Ranch Hand, the codename for the U.S. Air Force's herbicide program in Vietnam.
Agent Orange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After a report in 1969 showed that it could cause birth defects and stillbirths in mice, its was stopped in 1971.

Many US veterans suffer Agent orange too coz they didnt know it could harm their health.