How Vietnamese still suffer thanks to America. Documentary

[somsak]

It's a defoliant that unfortunately is still being "used" today.

Amazon facing new threat: Agent Orange | Environment | theguardian.com


Some controversial GM corn
BBC News - Agent Orange chemical in GM war on resistant weeds

in war? intentionall kill people?

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

in war? intentionall kill people?

??? How many soldiers dropped dead after being sprayed with Agent Orange?
Getting sick and suffering health problem later...yes....during warfare...no.

 

[somsak]

??? How many soldiers dropped dead after being sprayed with Agent Orange?
Getting sick and suffering health problem later...yes....during warfare...no.

but it is Intensionally for destruction of a country/people. Not for insecticide.
Why simple thing must be made so complicate

Knife can be used in Kitchen and War.

Brutality is by people

 

[kawaraj]

There is the US image behind those classic Asian Tigers. Even now I see Singapore is more US friendly than China friendly. There are several reasons why VN cannot match those tigers. One huge reason is that VN just joined WTO in 2005, I believe, and from then had access to the world market. Even now VN goods meet up with difficulty from US market, a profitable market.

As a VNese I cannot openly talk about politic and stuffs, or will I say any anti-communist comments. But I believe stability is much more important than political system.

Vietnam is a promising nation and I personally believe Vienam could be the next tiger following your East Asian bros. It has all the genes to emulated any one in the region. You could say Japan and China has some extraordinary features in their early development but Korea is exactly like Vietnam, influenced by confusious culture, poeple are smart and have the same mindset with neighboring nations. Even several years ago Vietnam was economically better viewed than today. There must be something wrong is hurdling Vietnam' progress.

 

[xesy]

Vietnam is a promising nation and I personally believe Vienam could be the next tiger following your East Asian bros. It has all the genes to emulated any one in the region. You could say Japan and China has some extraordinary features in their early development but Korea is exactly like Vietnam, influenced by confusious culture, poeple are smart and have the same mindset with neighboring nations. Even several years ago Vietnam was economically better viewed than today. There must be something wrong is hurdling Vietnam' progress.

Thanks bro. VN has potential, but the leaders aren't as good as the previous generation. They make some serious mistakes, and clumsily cover it up. Also they lack the spirit of their fathers.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

but it is Intensionally for destruction of a country/people. Not for insecticide.
Why simple thing must be made so complicate

Knife can be used in Kitchen and War.

Brutality is by people

It's a herbicide/defoliant, not an insecticide and not an effective weapon to kill people in wartime.
Operation Ranch Hand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kawaraj]

Thanks bro. VN has potential, but the leaders aren't as good as the previous generation. They make some serious mistakes, and clumsily cover it up. Also they lack the spirit of their fathers.

Have this big China behind you actually have some good leverage economically your leaders need to make good use of it. Even during China's early development they set aside the dispute with Japan.

The realistic (note realistic) thing is to engage with China. Forget those harmful remarks from military eagles Vietnam is in no way to grab islands from China. The best strategy is to set aside disputes with China and let they move their spillover industries to Vietnam.

Realistic, read it twice is something a middle sized nation has to learn. Read Korean economic history you will learn more. Realistic means if you want to build a high speed rail network you have to connect it with China(that's the mainland), or you just want a isolated rail system? this is a choice of Realistic option and a no-nagging option. Why not let the Chinese use their fund to build your high speed rail network? I met this Vietnam official saying they perfer Japanese rail system and I answered to him, "have you thought it through, for the long fun and will well arranged feasiblity study?" and he uttered nothing. Japanese rail system is better yet that does not mean it's feasible for a long term economic benefit. And it's obvious.

Vietnam's future is and has been made with China. You have to face it, hard,but you have to. Your leaders shall be mature enough to lead Vietnam out of poverty and towards prosperity.

 

[xunzi]

This is why it is important to have a strong military arm, and a strong economic arm. South Vietnam was poised to become an Asian Tiger. In fact, political and economic analysts have written reports that South Vietnam would have been another Singapore or Taiwan, had it not collapsed to the North.

The problem was that tho South Vietnam was economically superior to the North, it had a smaller armed forces; and it did not take advantage of the Cambodian and Laotian border regions for offensive strikes into the North. While the South had such reservations, the North Vietnamese Military Command did not.

Had Vietnam been united under South Vietnam's Democratic Government, no doubt Vietnam would have been a economic power house in South East Asia. She could have been another South Korea, or Japan.

You need to learn history more, my Nihon friend. The US would not allow SVN to attack the North nor the Lao or Cambodian can afford because of us, China, in the background. Had we not threaten the US of Korea War vII, the US back SVN would storm across the North Vietnam. However, I believe in the long term, the US made a GREAT strategy by not invading the North. Why? First, they lost the South Vietnam but they won over us, China, who at the time were having deteriorating relationship with the Soviet Union, the real US's archenemy. If the US invaded the North, for sure we will enter and that will only bring us closer to the Soviet and the US wouldn't be able to play "divide and conquer" and subsequently weaken the Soviet during Afghanistan War to the point of later collapsing. If you ask American politician, they no doubt made the right decision to abandon South Vietnam and in turn winning a geopolitical battle against the Soviet.

 

[somsak]

You need to learn history more, my Nihon friend. The US would not allow SVN to attack the North nor the Lao or Cambodian can afford because of us, China, in the background. Had we not threaten the US of Korea War vII, the US back SVN would storm across the North Vietnam. However, I believe in the long term, the US made a GREAT strategy by not invading the North. Why? First, they lost the South Vietnam but they won over us, China, who at the time were having deteriorating relationship with the Soviet Union, the real US's archenemy. If the US invaded the North, for sure we will enter and that will only bring us closer to the Soviet and the US wouldn't be able to play "divide and conquer" and subsequently weaken the Soviet during Afghanistan War to the point of later collapsing. If you ask American politician, they no doubt made the right decision to abandon South Vietnam and in turn winning a geopolitical battle against the Soviet.

And Thailand became the next domino US know full well. What a pity Thailand. We were exchanged. According to your version of history.

 

[xesy]

Have this big China behind you actually have some good leverage economically your leaders need to make good use of it. Even during China's early development they set aside the dispute with Japan.

The realistic (note realistic) thing is to engage with China. Forget those harmful remarks from military eagles Vietnam is in no way to grab islands from China. The best strategy is to set aside disputes with China and let they move their spillover industries to Vietnam.

Realistic, read it twice is something a middle sized nation has to learn. Read Korean economic history you will learn more. Realistic means if you want to build a high speed rail network you have to connect it with China(that's the mainland), or you just want a isolated rail system? this is a choice of Realistic option and a no-nagging option. Why not let the Chinese use their fund to build your high speed rail network? I met this Vietnam official saying they perfer Japanese rail system and I answered to him, "have you thought it through, for the long fun and will well arranged feasiblity study?" and he uttered nothing. Japanese rail system is better yet that does not mean it's feasible for a long term economic benefit. And it's obvious.

Vietnam's future is and has been made with China. You have to face it, hard,but you have to. Your leaders shall be mature enough to lead Vietnam out of poverty and towards prosperity.

The problem is in the past, we set aside our dispute already. After the normalization in 1991, VN and China did go back being buddies for a while. The news never mentioned about China occupying Paracels, and rarely mention about incidents happened in SCS. Back in 2005, around that time there were serveral cases where VNese fishermen would meet up with "unidentified" armed vessels ramming and attacking them, but our govt never really showed any details. It all blew up after China wild claim 9 dash lines, then the Haiyang incidents.

No, we did not want to stop being China friend, but China actions speak louder than any words. You are either China's "little brother", or its (potential) enemies.

 

[somsak]

Not Royal thai army. It was voluntier army fought for US dollars.

That's right. If I remember it, the Philippines sent an engineering battalion to South Vietnam, as did Thailand.

It sr

The United States was involved in 3 nations' fight against the communist insurgency, which reflected on the Domino Theory: 1) The Philippines, 2) Thailand and 3) Vietnam.

In the Philippines, the United States aided the Philippine Government during the late 1950s to early 1960s in squashing the Hukbalalahap War, which was a communist insurgency in the Philippines. It was successfully put down during the administration of President. Ramon Magsaysay. In regards to Thailand, the United States had supported Field Marshal Plaek Phibunsongkram in fighting the rural insurgencies, later on seen during the rule of General Prem Tinsulanonda, in which the United States aided Thailand in the communist insurgency near Chiang Mai and Issan. I think during the rule of Prime Minister Kriangsak Chomanan , there was also a strong US military cooperation with Thailand.

The United States' involvement in South Vietnam was related to its policies in the rest of South East Asia. Tho South Vietnam collapsed, the bolstered defenses in Thailand, the Philippines as well as to an extent Malaysia (which relied heavily on British and Australian support), the Domino Theory failed to manifest throughout the rest of South East Asia. It stopped in Laos and Cambodia.

Oh man almost get perfect score in history until last sentence. U now get 0 score.

Until Thailand. My friend. Lao is commy already so was Cambodia killing field.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Read your above quote again, you only mentioned the US influence as a factor. I pointed out that you haven't included any other factors.

I didn't interpret you arguing that US influences is necessary or sufficient. That was my own arguments.

I'll assume your intent is sincere and not mendacious, so I will explain.

"This is not a difficult decision to analyze. America promotes capitalism, and it has no territorial designs on Vietnam. The question isn't why Vietnam is making this choice, the question is why it took so long."

Source: How Vietnamese still suffer thanks to America. Documentary | Page 10

Do you even understand what I was talking about in this key sentence at the end of my quote, which the the crux of my argument?

My comment was said in the context of the topic of this too-often-derailed thread, namely the decision of Vietnam to turn towards the US, which the OP was propagandizing against.

Do you now see why I posted that list showing the experience and benefits that have accrued to other countries who have entered the US sphere of influence? And did I explicitly say the US was the key factor in their development, or only factor? Why do you assume I believe that it was the US, and not capitalism, and the culture, history, and circumstances that placed those nations in the US sphere of influence, that were the key factors?

I can't defend the straw man argument that you've erected to knock down, because I never made those simplistic arguments. You can set up further straw men to argue against, but I won't be here to defend those, either, since they are not my arguments. If you want to argue that those who say the US was the key factor in West German/South Korean etc. development were wrong, have at it, but it has nothing to do with me, since I never made those arguments.

 

[somsak]

I'll assume your intent is sincere and not mendacious, so I will explain.

"This is not a difficult decision to analyze. America promotes capitalism, and it has no territorial designs on Vietnam. The question isn't why Vietnam is making this choice, the question is why it took so long."

Source: How Vietnamese still suffer thanks to America. Documentary | Page 10

Do you even understand what I was talking about in this key sentence at the end of my quote, which the the crux of my argument?

My comment was said in the context of the topic of this too-often-derailed thread, namely the decision of Vietnam to turn towards the US, which the OP was propagandizing against.

Do you now see why I posted that list showing the experience and benefits that have accrued to other countries who have entered the US sphere of influence? And did I explicitly say the US was the key factor in their development, or only factor? Why do you assume I believe that it was the US, and not capitalism, and the culture, history, and circumstances that placed those nations in the US sphere of influence, that were the key factors?

I can't defend the straw man argument that you've erected to knock down, because I never made those simplistic arguments. You can set up further straw men to argue against, but I won't be here to defend those, either, since they are not my arguments. If you want to argue that those who say the US was the key factor in West German/South Korean etc. development were wrong, have at it, but it has nothing to do with me, since I never made those arguments.

Even current Chinese miracle is because US world order.
Look! Western colonization free Chinese women from feet bondage beauty.

US and England also educate Chinese Ph.d too. But this also benefit the US for R&D brain power.

What US. need is Ron Paual presidency. All conflict solved. I believe. As he will close military bases for money saving. He will change back to gold base financial system. He will change US to become a nerdy country.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Even current Chinese miracle is because US world order.
Look! Western colonization free Chinese women from feet bondage beauty.

US and England also educate Chinese Ph.d too. But this also benefit the US for R&D brain power.

What US. need is Ron Paual presidency. All conflict solved. I believe. As he will close military bases for money saving. He will change back to gold base financial system. He will change US to become a nerdy country.

While I don't support Ron Paul specifically (he is not practical, he is not savvy, and he's somewhat venal), I a certainly a fan of his son, Rand Paul (and others who argue for less government, like Ted Cruz), and I agree that more libertarianism will help the US recover economically.

We already discussed the gold standard issue, so I'll leave that one alone.

 

[Viet]

Taiwan , a nation that is 1/4th the size (population terms) of Vietnam has a higher GDP than Vietnam. There is no reason why Vietnam could have matched or even exceeded Taiwan. After all, most of the classic Asian Tigers are Confucian societies -- eg, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan.

Vietnam belongs to the Confucian East Asian Family of Nations. It is different from other nations in South East Asia which have a different cultural milieu. In my opinion, there is no reason to deny Vietnam could have even surpassed Taiwan or South Korea in term of economic power. Had she (Vietnam) been a democratic nation.....

VN has an important asset: the overseas vietnamese. the total annual income is estimated to be $50b in 2013. If one divides this number by estimated 4 millions overseas vietnamese, we get $12,500 annual income per person. It is lower than Taiwan ($21,000), but higher than Czech republic ($11,600). That is not too bad, considering most of us were former refugees. We came here with nothing.

You are right my friend. there is no reason why the vietnamese cannot catch up with other peers in the region.

Vietnamese overseas should be investing in tech startups, not just remittances