How the Iranian conservatives claim that Wilayat-e-Faqih is "Democratic"?

[veg]

Despite being a democracy, still the image of Iran is ruined due to the system of non democratic Wilayat-e-Faqih.

On the other hand conservatives are always claiming that Wilayat-e-Faqih is democratic, which no one understands how.

Conservatives come out with an excuse that majority of Iranians support Wilayat-e-Faqih and thus over 70% people take part in the elections. But I don't thing this excuse is true.

Reality is there are no direct Elections in Iran for Wilayat-e-Faqih system, or the "Islamic System".

Even if the majority of Iranians (over 50%) reject the idea of Wilayat-e-Faqih, but still conservatives are not going to let a referendum to take place.

This situation is really hopeless for the Iranian reformists.

 

[gangsta_rap]

Democracy is pretty damn subjective in the first place...

 

[raptor22]

Despite being a democracy, still the image of Iran is ruined due to the system of non democratic Wilayat-e-Faqih.

On the other hand conservatives are always claiming that Wilayat-e-Faqih is democratic, which no one understands how.

Conservatives come out with an excuse that majority of Iranians support Wilayat-e-Faqih and thus over 70% people take part in the elections. But I don't thing this excuse is true.

Reality is there are no direct Elections in Iran for Wilayat-e-Faqih system, or the "Islamic System".

Even if the majority of Iranians (over 50%) reject the idea of Wilayat-e-Faqih, but still conservatives are not going to let a referendum to take place.

This situation is really hopeless for the Iranian reformists.

Well first of all the current government in Iran "IRI" is outcome of the Iranian constitution which was voted by people alongside with the referendum on IR itself that took place 2 months after the revolution, secondly it's true that the leader isn't chosen directly by people or through ballet boxes but he is chosen by council of experts whom are chosen by people directly which monitors him, he can be removed by the council if he doesn't qualify anymore as leader.
If you think it's not democratic then you should not consider England democratic too, who voted the queen Elizabeth? as you know she's got rights like declaration of war, freedom from prosecution, appointing the prime minister and so on. when was last referendum about her or monarchy? or the current American president even doesn't enjoy popular vote. Actually if you really concern about democracy I could assure you there is no pure democracy on this planet.
And where did you get 50%?

 

[zartosht]

the only difference between Iranian "democracy" and western "democracy" is the fact that Iranians are intelligent and know their system is not a true democracy..

but morons in the west actually think they can control their government.. and have democracyzzzzzz because they are allowed to go cast a ballot for some puppet head..

they have firm established parties, lobby groups, advertising power to ensure only the same old establishment figures get recycled. and governments just pretty much do their own thing when elected.

Trump was a furious backlash against such a "democracyzzzz" system.. but he too proved unable to do anything against the establishment. and proved to be little more then a puppet.

but let them believe in their democraccyzzzz if it makes them feel superior to others..

 

[AmirPatriot]

as you know she's got rights like declaration of war, freedom from prosecution, appointing the prime minister and so on. when was last referendum about her or monarchy? or the current American president even doesn't enjoy popular vote. Actually if you really concern about democracy I could assure you there is no pure democracy on this planet.

Those powers are completely ceremonial though. The monarchy doesn't have any real power. Any attempt by the monarchy to use the royal prerogative would spark a constitutional crisis. Monarchs aren't even allowed to vote.

 

[veg]

Well first of all the current government in Iran "IRI" is outcome of the Iranian constitution which was voted by people alongside with the referendum on IR itself that took place 2 months after the revolution,

This referendum should continue. Why to stop it after the 1st time? I don't think there is any answer to it except for the lame excuses that I hear from the conservatives.

secondly it's true that the leader isn't chosen directly by people or through ballet boxes but he is chosen by council of experts whom are chosen by people directly which monitors him, he can be removed by the council if he doesn't qualify anymore as leader.

This is a deception. And conservatives know it themselves, but still they keep on repeating it.

(1) Council of Experts should be approved from the Guardian Council & by the Leader. So, the votes of people has little meaning here.

(2) Then Guardian Council itself consists only of the "Mujtahids" and a non democratic body. It's 80 members are only allowed to contest after the approval by the Leader.

So, all in all, no direct votes of People to choose or reject the system of Wilayat e Faqih. And then only those candidates are allowed to contest, who are approved by a non democratic body.

Therefore, it is nothing but a deception in name of democracy and vote of people.

If you think it's not democratic then you should not consider England democratic too, who voted the queen Elizabeth? as you know she's got rights like declaration of war, freedom from prosecution, appointing the prime minister and so on. when was last referendum about her or monarchy?

Once again a deception to compare the Wilayat e Faqih system to the Queen of England.

In England, the "Directly" people's chosen Parliament has the right to do the constitutional changes. They are not hand picked by the Queen before the elections.

There would have been no objection to the Wilayat system if the Assembly of Experts would have been directly chosen by the people without the intervention and approval of Guardian Council and the Leader himself.

or the current American president even doesn't enjoy popular vote.

Yes, and therefore there are the voices to change this system as it is against the pure democratic rules. Any how, still this system could not be compared to the Wilayat e Faqih system, which is not even at the bottom line of democracy.

Actually if you really concern about democracy I could assure you there is no pure democracy on this planet.

So it this excuse enough to impose the dictatorship of Wilayat e Faqih in Iran and no reforms should be made in it?

And where did you get 50%? Brother, why are you fooling

Just see the election results where reformists (who are traitors in the eyes of conservatives) are getting above 50% casted votes, while the conservatives getting 30% votes. For sure reformists want to abandon the power of cherry picking of the candidates by the conservatives.

To describe the reality is not fooling others, but to invite them to stop usurping the rights of others.

 

[Big Tank]

Despite being a democracy, still the image of Iran is ruined due to the system of non democratic Wilayat-e-Faqih.

On the other hand conservatives are always claiming that Wilayat-e-Faqih is democratic, which no one understands how.

Conservatives come out with an excuse that majority of Iranians support Wilayat-e-Faqih and thus over 70% people take part in the elections. But I don't thing this excuse is true.

Reality is there are no direct Elections in Iran for Wilayat-e-Faqih system, or the "Islamic System".

Even if the majority of Iranians (over 50%) reject the idea of Wilayat-e-Faqih, but still conservatives are not going to let a referendum to take place.

This situation is really hopeless for the Iranian reformists.

Who are you kid? Another Secular fanboy?

 

[zartosht]

Those powers are completely ceremonial though. The monarchy doesn't have any real power. Any attempt by the monarchy to use the royal prerogative would spark a constitutional crisis. Monarchs aren't even allowed to vote.

says who? Catalans thought the same thing about the Spanish constitution. it was absolutely unthinkable for Madrid to excersize its constitutional powers and take direct control of catalonia.... it would spark an unthinkable crisis.. not only are they doing that, but Madrid is in the process of throwing catalan leaders in jail.

make no mistake, if push comes to shove, and the circumstances require it.. the democracy queen will excersize her "powers" and the media/estabslishment will find ways to justify it

 

[veg]

says who? Catalans thought the same thing about the Spanish constitution. it was absolutely unthinkable for Madrid to excersize its constitutional powers and take direct control of catalonia.... it would spark an unthinkable crisis.. not only are they doing that, but Madrid is in the process of throwing catalan leaders in jail.

make no mistake, if push comes to shove, and the circumstances require it.. the democracy queen will excersize her "powers" and the media/estabslishment will find ways to justify it

It seems whole argument lies while others do, so it becomes legal for Iranian conservatives too.

Why not have a simple referendum and accept the results? What if majority of Iranians want to get rid of the Wilayat system? Or is it 100% Halal to usurp the right of the majority and impose your version of system at every cost?

Who are you kid? Another Secular fanboy?

Yes brother. Indeed I am a big fan of secularism.

Is it a sin or crime? If not, then I request you to please concentrate upon the question.

 

[mohsen]

Islamic Republic of Iran is the only country in the world whose people have chosen both the constitution and type of system (Islamic Republic) in a free referendum.

when a second country managed to give this level of authority to it's people, then come and lecture us on democracy.

Those powers are completely ceremonial though. The monarchy doesn't have any real power.

where did you hear this joke?!
the one who has no power is the prime minister but even that puppet is chosen/approved by the British dictator.

Any attempt by the monarchy to use the royal prerogative would spark a constitutional crisis. Monarchs aren't even allowed to vote.

U.K doesn't even have a constitution.

 

[WordsMatter]

the only difference between Iranian "democracy" and western "democracy" is the fact that Iranians are intelligent and know their system is not a true democracy..

but morons in the west actually think they can control their government.. and have democracyzzzzzz because they are allowed to go cast a ballot for some puppet head..

they have firm established parties, lobby groups, advertising power to ensure only the same old establishment figures get recycled. and governments just pretty much do their own thing when elected.

Trump was a furious backlash against such a "democracyzzzz" system.. but he too proved unable to do anything against the establishment. and proved to be little more then a puppet.

but let them believe in their democraccyzzzz if it makes them feel superior to others..

PLEASE... call yourself a moron. If you believe that garbage, you been drinking your own cool-aid for far too long.

 

[SOHEIL]

Democracy on earth is nonexistence !

 

[veg]

Islamic Republic of Iran is the only country in the world whose people have chosen both the constitution and type of system (Islamic Republic) in a free referendum.

Choosing one time does not mean that people have lost their right to change their opinion and now Wilayat system will be kept imposed on them for the next thousands of years.

That is why there are elections every few years to determine the people's choice. This right of people's choice has been usurped by the conservatives in name of different kind of lame excuses.

when a second country managed to give this level of authority to it's people, then come and lecture us on democracy.

Other countries are far better in respecting the choice of their people by allowing them to go to the polls every few year.

And people of other countries have also got the right to choose their system (Secularism) and the constitution. They are better than Iranian system while they provide open choice to the people to change the constitution (or even the system) through the parliament.

And lecture is necessary to the conservatives while they are unable to see the reality that Reformists (who are traitors in their eyes) are getting more than 50% votes, while conservatives are not getting even 30% votes. So, the issue is not connected with the outer world which conservatives quote a lot in order to safe their face, but even the domestic situation is very much clear and pointing out the usurping of rights of people by the conservatives.

where did you hear this joke?!
the one who has no power is the prime minister but even that puppet is chosen/approved by the British dictator.

This stubbornness make the conservatives a joke upon which whole world could only laugh. It is same like Ahmadinejad claiming there are no gays in Iran.

In UK, all defence deals are made by the prime minister. Is it possible in Iran?

In UK, if the parliament passes a legislation, then queen is no one to reject it. While in Iran leader has all the powers to reject any legislation or bill in name of being the representative of Allah.

U.K doesn't even have a constitution.

So what?
Even without the written constitution, their system is able to provide the rights of people many folds better than the written constitution of Iran where Wali Faqih becomes above the people's choice and right and gets the eternal power to impose his system upon the Iranian people.

 

[zartosht]

It seems whole argument lies while others do, so it becomes legal for Iranian conservatives too.

Why not have a simple referendum and accept the results? What if majority of Iranians want to get rid of the Wilayat system? Or is it 100% Halal to usurp the right of the majority and impose your version of system at every cost?

im the last thing from a "conservative". infact backward conservativeness is the biggest long term threat to the Iranian government in my opinion..

Im looking at the bigger picture.. the propaganda narrative that westerns domcracyzzz is best. which is ridiculous. Their "democracy" is highly artiifical. a rigged system that ensures the establishment continues and people have very little power to actually do anything about it..

also this system doesn't work for everybody. you think china would be china today without the communist party? they were everybodies plaything on the brink of disintegtration before they took over. and are in the process of turning the country into superpower. You think democracyz would have achieved that? stop falling for western propaganda..

im not even a muslim. but id take a no-nonsense mullah like Khamenei that can safeguard Iranian soveringty, dignity and independence any day of the week to some feminist gay worshipping supposed democracyz system that would put the interests of their American masters before iran..

as long as the American empire is a threat to iran, western democracyz will not work.. it might even mean the disintegration of the country (a wet dream of Zionists to permanently weaken potential enemies)

PLEASE... call yourself a moron. If you believe that garbage, you been drinking your own cool-aid for far too long.

the indoctrinated moron here is you...

the only "democracy" western propaganda accepts are the ones that are slaves to the americans. any democracy that doesn't vote the way Washington likes gets branded a dictatorship...

Vladimir putin, and hugo chavez. 2 extremely popular leaders that got democratically elected and have more support among their people then any western puppet can dream about.. but those 2 guys are routinely described as "dictators" by the western propaganda engines..

now be a good lil sheep and go read some more CNN/BBC/etc...

 

[mohsen]

Choosing one time does not mean that people have lost their right to change their opinion and now Wilayat system will be kept imposed on them for the next thousands of years.

That is why there are elections every few years to determine the people's choice. This right of people's choice has been usurped by the conservatives in name of different kind of lame excuses.

as I said, first you give this right at least for once to your people, then come and ask us for yearly constitution elections!

Other countries are far better in respecting the choice of their people by allowing them to go to the polls every few year.

Iranian elections are more than any other country. also we don't allow money oriented campaigns like those in corrupted western countries.

And people of other countries have also got the right to choose their system (Secularism) and the constitution. They are better than Iranian system while they provide open choice to the people to change the constitution (or even the system) through the parliament.

give me one example in which a country has allowed it's people to choose the type of system.
you can't, cause there is none.

And lecture is necessary to the conservatives while they are unable to see the reality that Reformists (who are traitors in their eyes) are getting more than 50% votes, while conservatives are not getting even 30% votes. So, the issue is not connected with the outer world which conservatives quote a lot in order to safe their face, but even the domestic situation is very much clear and pointing out the usurping of rights of people by the conservatives.

Guess who came to power after the 8 years of Reformist's governance. the same thing will happen again, when people realized what Reformists promised was utter lie and nothing more.

This stubbornness make the conservatives a joke upon which whole world could only laugh. It is same like Ahmadinejad claiming there are no gays in Iran.

Yeah, Conservatives were so weak that Rouhani was thinking it's better to not participate for another round!

In UK, all defence deals are made by the prime minister. Is it possible in Iran?

In UK, if the parliament passes a legislation, then queen is no one to reject it. While in Iran leader has all the powers to reject any legislation or bill in name of being the representative of Allah.

So what?
Even without the written constitution, their system is able to provide the rights of people many folds better than the written constitution of Iran where Wali Faqih becomes above the people's choice and right and gets the eternal power to impose his system upon the Iranian people.

these are some of the British dictator authorities:
remove or appoint the prime minister or any other minister,
choosing all members of the house of Lords (poor commons, such a barbaric naming)
disbanding the parliament,
should approve and sign all of the government and parliament bills,
disband of Australia parliament and governor!!! and the rest of colonies.
approve or cancelling of U.K international agreements.
all laws are applied under her name.
has the full control of army, they are even called Royal army to make sure no one would forget who is the boss!
approving of the foreign policies.
appoints the highest judiciary authority and approves all judiciary laws.
even appoints the highest cleric in U.K
ownership of all national resources, even animals in the parks, ownership of all museums and historical heritages.

THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE DICTATORSHIP.


Iranian have voted to this Islamic Republic system, but I know you can't understand the meaning of vote or democracy.