How the Haqqani Network Became America's Greatest Enemy

[Levina]

India don't share any cultural bond with Afghanistan.

Buddhism had been our greatest bond for centuries. Alas! only traces of Buddhism remain in the country today, rest have been erased by the Taliban.

You can develop understanding of public affairs and how common people think.
But how powerful elite think and operate is out of your scope. Unless and untill you become part of that elite.
Once you become part of that elite you realize how idealistic and naive approach of common public is, how they are deceived to believe that they have choice and people sitting in government represent public opinion etc etc.
It's all deception........
You control public minds, you generate threat, you control response and you offer solution with out even giving a hint to common man that they are being manipulated.......

This is how things work in World .......

And you think India's elite have interest in Pakistan?
Other than business I don't see a reason why Pakistan should interest them. Then again, destabilizing Pakistan would not be a prospect such business men would desire.

@Levina pakistan contribution toward afghanistan is that we have given shelter to 3 million afghanis. If india spared few dollars then it doesn't mean that you don t finance proxy war in other countries. As far as proxies are concerned an india naval officer was captured in baluchistan if i m not wrong. India was involved in destablising Srilanka and now RAW thinks its going to be that simple and easy in Pakistan.

1.The spy story has been discussed a million times on this forum. So no enlighten sessions on that pls.
2. Every country hosts refugees. UN funds aids to such refugee camps.

 

[ADIL SHERDIL]

how many refugees does india host and are they involved in destabilizing your country with help of pakistan or lets say china.
and are you saying RAW is not financing BLA and groups like them.

 

[Levina]

how many refugees does india host and are they involved in destabilizing your country with help of pakistan or lets say china.
and are you saying RAW is not financing BLA and groups like them.

Google BANGLADESHI refugees in India.
Or let me give you a small idea of refugees in India

for more details pls google.

 

[Tipu7]

Buddhism had been our greatest bond for centuries. Alas! only traces of Buddhism remain in the country today, rest have been erased by the Taliban

It's too late to develop relations with Afghanistan based upon Buddhism......

And you think India's elite have interest in Pakistan?

Pakistan is focal point.

Other than business I don't see a reason why Pakistan should interest them. Then again, destabilizing Pakistan would not be a prospect such business men would desire.

For becoming Super Power, Destabilization and finally disintegration of Pakistan is crucial.
Stage one Create disturbance in KPK & Baluchistan via Afghanistan & Iran.
Stage two raise proxies for joining up KPK with Afghanistan by neutralizing Durand line plus divide Baluchistan into two portions, East portion will become part of Iran, Central region will come up as new country.
Stage three capture Azad Kashmir and GB and make it Indian territory. Develop land link to Afghanistan and ultimately to central Asia and Europe. Plus block Chinese link with Pakistan neutralizing Chinese influence in Indian ocean & Arabian sea.
Stage four Attack on Pakistan, joining up of Punjab & Sindh with India. River of Sindh will act as international border..

It's like slow poisoning your enemy untill you deliver knick out punch.
You use power of gun and pen to engage your enemy with out declaring your war. You prepare people of gun to fight for their
"rights".
You prepare educated morons to use pen who hate own country and nation and is inspired from you instead.
As result you create strong division in society and those divided groups keep colliding with each other, destroying entire social set up.
And a nation with destroyed society is crippled nation. And a military + government backed by crippled nation is toothless......
And Nuclear weapons? Use international pressure, put your enemy into situation where it has to choose survival aid vs WMD. Educated morons will brain wash rest nation to compromise WMD for sake of peace, progress and harmony...... And once nation lose WMD, conquering it piece of cake.

Akhand Bharat is some thing more than just extremist RSS mind idea...... It's the ultimate goal for India, you admit it now or reject is r different case.

 

[Levina]

It's too late to develop relations with Afghanistan based upon Buddhism......

Gosh!
I was talking about our cultural ties with Afghanistan. Lolz

For becoming Super Power, Destabilization and finally disintegration of Pakistan is crucial.
Stage one Create disturbance in KPK & Baluchistan via Afghanistan & Iran.
Stage two raise proxies for joining up KPK with Afghanistan by neutralizing Durand line plus divide Baluchistan into two portions, East portion will become part of Iran, Central region will come up as new country.
Stage three capture Azad Kashmir and GB and make it Indian territory. Develop land link to Afghanistan and ultimately to central Asia and Europe. Plus black Chinese link with Pakistan neutralizing Chinese influence in Indian ocean & Arabian sea.
Stage four Attack on Pakistan, joining up of Punjab & Sindh with India. River of Sindh will act as international border..

wow!
Had our elite been so united then we would definitely have been a super power. But alas we are not. So you kow, where you're going wrong with your assumptions.

Akhand Bharat is some thing more than just extremist RSS mind idea...... It's the ultimate goal for India, you admit it now or reject is r different case.

Akhand Bharat is a term I heard on PDF first.
I had never heard about it before that. Trust me.

Pakistan is focal point.

You over rate yourself.

Okay now.
we have deviated from the topic.
lets get back to HQN and its support within Pakistan.

 

[RAMPAGE]

@A-Team

Any cultured reformist from the Zadran tribe for its representation?

BTW If not, I can always return to my native lands if you guys endorse me for the job!

 

[Arsalan]

Survival of the fittest.

It can be either way Levina, it can’t be “survival of the fittest” along with the talks of harmony and love for peace.

India isn't an aggressive country, its policies have kept it in good books of most of the countries around the world. So while assuming that India would not do anything to hurt Pakistan's internal peace*, it is also understood that it maintains a spy network of its own in your country, which is nothing but its way of defending itself during adverse situations in the future. But I'm sure India isn't harboring anyone who has been declared a terrorist by your state.

You are basing this on an assumption dear. I am sorry to point out, but if we assume things based on what end result we want to get from that we won’t ever fail. This is just a case like that. The assumption is made here keeping in mind what conclusion needs to be drawn. Unfortunately it is not as easy as this in the really world and you know it as well as I do if not better. Furthermore, it is not about harboring terrorists ONLY. No sane persona while being honest will deny Indian involvement inside Pakistan in various matters INCLUDING things that are meant to destabilize a the country. Saying that India have no assets in Pakistan acting against Pakistan is like denying Pakistan have anything to do in Afghanistan, or had anything to do in past. It is not a court room right so I won’t be afraid of saying things that are true even if they are damaging to me, neither do I hold such a position where my words will be used as proof. Since I do not want to merely satisfy my ego here, I am blunt and bold to admit things openly and to accuse as well.

Other than Dalai Lama I do not see any other controversial figure in India, who is not related to Pakistan but China. Anyways, you do know about his holiness, he is a peace love human being.

One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter!!

Not saying anything about Dalai Lama, have never studied about him so won’t pass judgements here. I am sure he would be a as nice as you mention.

Let me be frank here, I know Pakistan's economy would not support such investments but had your govt better utilized its resources, and if it did not seek parity with India, I guess things would have been a lot better.

That is right, to some extent but one need to study the reasons behind getting involved in that race before passing judgements (not saying you are passing any). To understand that whole situation is a time taking process a whole separate topic all together, the studies will date back to 1940 or even before. You and I both know the necessary details so won’t need to go into depth. If you keep in mind those things you will realize that even though somethings lots like stupid mistakes and blunders now actually made some sense back when they were done, if not were completely necessary!

No. Don't worry, you weren't aggressive or at least I did not think so.

Why I sense a hint of a doubt here

Just speaking out my mind ma’am. Nothing against anyone really. I do lie, may be I lie a lot . But won’t do so if there is not anything to gain, on a web forum where my account may not even be traced back to me, I don’t have much to lose of gain so why lie.

You 're contradicting what your fellow country men said on this thread.

Thank you for acknowledging us as a tolerant society where anyone can have there own views.

okay now,
Is there a solution to this?
What is your opinion
1. would sans Pak's support HQN survive?
2. what is the need to support HQN at all?

I believe that there is nothing in the world that do not have a solution except death, that is what my religion teaches me as well. So Yes, there sure is a solution to that. Now everyone might have a different approach to this problem, a different route to solve this issue, some may not even think this to be a problem so all i can do is suggest what i think about it. My version of a solution to all this is pretty simple "Screw these bast..." Afghan Pakistan green white purple or yellow, all these Taliban are terrorists. They may have been fighting for a just cause sometime, there might be some few miss guided souls, some individuals that may be fighting for a just cause still but as a group as a label, they are all equally responsible and are all terrorists. Must be dealt with force now. Even if its US drones killing them our our forces getting the job done, just get it done with. HOWEVER, i will assure you of one thing, some of the choices that US and Afghanistan are making in name of finding a solution are not right. They wont help ANYONE in this region. US will leave one day but we will be here even after that and Afghans together with Pakistan will need to address these problem. US is here now and sure is a huge power so no harm or shame in getting all the help you can get. IN short, we will need to work honestly and work together to clean the mess we find our self in.

Buddhism had been our greatest bond for centuries. Alas! only traces of Buddhism remain in the country today, rest have been erased by the Taliban.

Buddhism had his influence in Pakistan as well. I lived in Taxila and that place was one of the major Buddhist civilization centers. All that link never helped Pak-India form a bond even though ours was not erased by Talis
Just kidding!

Google BANGLADESHI refugees in India.
Or let me give you a small idea of refugees in India
View attachment 307407

for more details pls google.

This is the difference ma'am,
for these you need to use google.

For Afghan refuges in Pakistan, one doesnt even need google!

 

[Tipu7]

Akhand Bharat is a term I heard on PDF first.
I had never heard about it before that. Trust me.

I heard it first almost 7 years ago.
Bal Thakary was alive that time.

I was talking about our cultural ties with Afghanistan. Lolz

The "cultural links" you want with Afghanistan are acceptable to a limited community if people sitting in Kabul.
Rest Afghan neither need this thing nor they will welcome it .......

You over rate yourself.

If you look at map, you will realise why I am "over rating" Pakistan. ........
No matter how much India claim that their focus is now on China but their real focus will remain Pakistan as long as it turn into another Bangladesh......

 

[Levina]

It can be either way Levina, it can’t be “survival of the fittest” along with the talks of harmony and love for peace.

Infact peace talks and negotiations are also part of survival. Isnt it?

No sane persona while being honest will deny Indian involvement inside Pakistan in various matters INCLUDING things that are meant to destabilize a the country. Saying that India have no assets in Pakistan acting against Pakistan is like denying Pakistan have anything to do in Afghanistan, or had anything to do in past.

yet again if Indian assets inside Pakistan were good enough to destabilise Pakistan then by now balouch and Sindh issue would have caught on like wild fire. Since thats not happening I am assuming that the Indian assets inside pakistan are too less in number to cause destabilisation.

Furthermore, it is not about harboring terrorists ONLY.

What i was trying to point out was, that once you align yourself with such tainted groups and ppl, the world would stamp you as a terrorist sympathiser. Come to think of it, such rogue elements which take shelter in a country, also need to be protected. Waste of resources i say.

Since I do not want to merely satisfy my ego here, I am blunt and bold to admit things openly and to accuse as well.

Relax,i see it as a part of the discussion.

I am not denying Indian assets within Pakistan, i merely said the numbers are much smaller. BTW no other country accuses India of destabilising it.
SL was a special case, we burnt our fingers there and since then we have refrained from doing such stunts.

All that link never helped Pak-India form a bond even though ours was not erased by Talis

You and me are communicating, despite being a Pakistani forum i get to post here and being heard, these small things are a reminder that there's still hope.

M'am says Ciao

 

[haviZsultan]

Something I failed to mention before was that Pacha Khan Zadran was kept in guantanamo for some time. Perhaps a secret deal was signed by him and America there which made him a leader in Afghanistan. Haqqanis are not angels though as they have been taking part in senseless suicide bombings. But I agree instead of improving the situation the Americans have worsened it, which they typically do. Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan, all places Americans stepped into are a mess.

 

[saiyan0321]

America at that time was not only arrogant but senseless too. Standing as the champion of the war on terror 15 years later only has more terrorists and destroyed nations to show for it. The middle east is burning with Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria,Libya in ruins while turkey and Pakistan suffering. At the start the american success was very similar to the British success in Afghanistan during the great game where through talks great headways could have been made but america blinded by its arrogance and invincibility played at the hands of warlords especially at the hands of the northern alliance alienating a huge ethnic power in Afghanistan. Now in 2016 we SSE a very different Afghanistan. We see areas under the control of the Taliban and we see the opium rich province of Helmand being contested for every day.

The Taliban collected taxes from farmers in Helmand and they themselves profited from the opium harvest in their controlled districts which will fuel the insurgency and the Taliban are not alienated. Many Taliban recruits worked for farmers in the harvest which allows them to gather more recruits as they talk to more workers.

One wonders what would have happened if they had taken a more diplomated approach after the invasion but at the time america was shouting either you are with us or against us. ( people then say we should have said no to america) .

A more horrific story in Iraq which lieabin ruin runned over by Isis and Syria destroyed Libya destroyed.. The war on terror has created more destruction and death than imaginable and its the fault of the great champion who came forward to fight this war. Nations destroyed, million killed, millions suffering, refugees left right and center and hell broken loose in the middle east.

 

[Bratva]

If you capture Afghanistan, province of KPK and North - South Baluchistan came under severe threat.
USSR was willing to make land route to Arabian sea inorder to greatly enhance its influence in region.
And having Hostile Afghanistan with World power inside, Hostile India and Hostile Iran with pro Soviet influence was grave threat for Pakistan.
And you learn from past, but you don't take guidance from past. Just because a country don't have history of full flagged invasion on neighbor land DOES NOT mean that its some Universal Law that India will never ever launch any attack against Pakistan.
Although the myth of India never attacking Pakistan is also debatable thing.



Same reason as above,
Using Afghanistan as buffer state, India will increase pressure on KPK as well as West Baluchistan.
New proxies will be raised and India will try best to keep Pakistan Military busy on West Borders.
Plus, pro Indian Afghanistan is also increase risk on Gilgit Balitistan.

And the justification of using Afghanistan as a route for Business is just one dimensional thing. You cannot ignore other dimensions which are definitely hostile towards Pakistan.

At the time of USSR intervention in afghanistan, Baloch rebel leaders were residing in Afghanistan and USSR. Pashtunistan movement was at its peak with the blessing of Afghani government. Pakistan hasnt forgot what USSR did to disintegrate pakistan in 1971. People who dont know the history tend to make the ignorant observations about why Pakistan jumped into Afghanistan in 1979. They forgot that for similar reasons, India jumped into east Pakistan, Srilanka, Maldives and elsewhere to pre-empt the threats and yeah they always forgot this little map of PNAC as well and for the same reasons they forgot why we are supporting Haqqani because the Drug addicts and monkeys are still making move against Pakistan through non state actors and we need similar actors to keep them on their toes too

Something I failed to mention before was that Pacha Khan Zadran was kept in guantanamo for some time. Perhaps a secret deal was signed by him and America there which made him a leader in Afghanistan. Haqqanis are not angels though as they have been taking part in senseless suicide bombings. But I agree instead of improving the situation the Americans have worsened it, which they typically do. Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan, all places Americans stepped into are a mess.

Haqqanis were relative angels in 2002-2003. They werent doing any suicide bombings. It was America who began bombing haqqani senselessly which initiated the circle of violence

 

[Arsalan]

M'am says Ciao

Kithayy?? Not so easy!!

In fact peace talks and negotiations are also part of survival. Isnt it?

Yup, but not just of the fittest

Yet again if Indian assets inside Pakistan were good enough to destabilise Pakistan then by now balouch and Sindh issue would have caught on like wild fire. Since thats not happening I am assuming that the Indian assets inside pakistan are too less in number to cause destabilisation.

Well, what can i say about how good or bad they are at there job. As for Baluchistan and Sindh, a certain small group have been effected anyway but luckily for Pakistan there percentage is negligibly low. The thing is that Baloch extremely loyal and committed to the cause, that is in there DNA, In fact, the little small number that are pro separation are also doing this mainly because of there loyalty to the leader of there tribe who are residing out side the country and have sold there soul for money. Otherwise, majority of Baluchistan is more patriotic and emotional about Pakistan about us Punjabi people.

What i was trying to point out was, that osnce you align yourself with such tainted groups and ppl, the world would stamp you as a terrorist sympathiser. Come to think of it, such rogue elements which take shelter in a country, also need to be protected. Waste of resources i say.

Well no sane person would argue with that. It is stupid and waste of resources in the least bit of worries here. It is just not right and must be dealt with.
I wrote those lines however in response to "India is not harboring anyone that is anti-Pakistan" thing.

Relax,i see it as a part of the discussion.

Thanks. I was hoping this would be the case.

I am not denying Indian assets within Pakistan, i merely said the numbers are much smaller. BTW no other country accuses India of destabilizing it.SL was a special case, we burnt our fingers there and since then we have refrained from doing such stunts.

I hope for your sake it stays this way, that India refrains from such mistakes.

You and me are communicating, despite being a Pakistani forum i get to post here and being heard, these small things are a reminder that there's still hope.

Lo ge, good to know that the hopes are back alive!
Lets see where they take our countries!!

Something I failed to mention before was that Pacha Khan Zadran was kept in guantanamo for some time. Perhaps a secret deal was signed by him and America there which made him a leader in Afghanistan. Haqqanis are not angels though as they have been taking part in senseless suicide bombings. But I agree instead of improving the situation the Americans have worsened it, which they typically do. Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan, all places Americans stepped into are a mess.

There MAY be some other connections here as well that are not public as yet. It is not necessarily the American who are responsible here directly. There may be other groups involved. Time will tell.

 

[ADIL SHERDIL]

@Levina in all the case mentioned by you india was the core reason.
1971 india backing mukti bani then outlaw organization
1947 india overtaking kashmir by force
1947 indo pak partition
1976 india backing tamils in sri lanka
from the things you have mentioned i would like to point out that in most of the incident indian govt was involved in other countries affair. and you said we never interfere in other country. and just a question how many afghanis have u give refuge. INDIA has proven to be a veru unreliable neighbour for all of its neighbouring country.

 

[Tipu7]

There MAY be some other connections here as well that are not public as yet. It is not necessarily the American who are responsible here directly. There may be other groups involved. Time will tell.

Is it right to assume that United States is killing its Founding fathers via Drone strikes?