How many sabres were captured?

[John Doe]

@Deckingraj:

I have blocked the cutie pie who posted the Aeronaut article ( Aeronaut: PAF on the Offensive - 1971 War), so I am seeing this only now as part of your post.
I suggest reading this post which shows the flip side of the coin. It is not as well written as Kaiser's, but a good read nevertheless. The data about the 8 shot down Starfighters is not easily provable, and most likely inaccurate.

What is superb is some of the other incidents such as the Su-7 and the Marut (!!!!) shooting down PAF interceptors and the lumbering AN-12 escaping from the Mirages.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/40522-flash-back-air-war-1971-a-3.html#post1843026

Now a request to everyone ( truthfully directed towards only one ) . Please DON'T post stuff pretending it is your research!!! Let us know the source, please use hyperlinks, scans, photos, anything! Just avoid data which is of suspect parentage

 

[toxic_pus]

Mirage 5 PA Ground-Attack 28 28 1973-1979 Dassault-Breguet
(France)
Mirage 5 DPA Trainer 4 4 1973 Dassault-Breguet
(France) 4
Mirage 5 PA2/3 Ground-Attack 30 30 1973-1979 Dassault-Breguet
(France)
Mirage 5 DPA2 Trainer 2 2 1973-1979 Dassault-Breguet
(France)

SIPRI says your data (taken from a Pakistani website) is wrong:

Two batches of Mirage 5s were ordered between 1960 and 1980 (the period to which the data above relates). The first batch was delivered between 1971 and 1972 and 2nd batch between 1980 and 1983. No Mirage 5 was delivered between 1973 and 1979.

I am going to give SIPRI more credence than any Pakistani website, if you don't mind.

 

[deckingraj]

SIPRI says your data (taken from a Pakistani website) is wrong:

Two batches of Mirage 5s were ordered between 1960 and 1980 (the period to which the data above relates). The first batch was delivered between 1971 and 1972 and 2nd batch between 1980 and 1983. No Mirage 5 was delivered between 1973 and 1979.

I am going to give SIPRI more credence than any Pakistani website, if you don't mind.

Toxic..i have done lot of research on the same topic but could not find any reference of Mirage 5 participating in 71 war..However would love to be proved wrong...

 

[deckingraj]

@Deckingraj:

I have blocked the cutie pie who posted the Aeronaut article ( Aeronaut: PAF on the Offensive - 1971 War), so I am seeing this only now as part of your post.
I suggest reading this post which shows the flip side of the coin. It is not as well written as Kaiser's, but a good read nevertheless. The data about the 8 shot down Starfighters is not easily provable, and most likely inaccurate.

What is superb is some of the other incidents such as the Su-7 and the Marut (!!!!) shooting down PAF interceptors and the lumbering AN-12 escaping from the Mirages.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history/40522-flash-back-air-war-1971-a-3.html#post1843026

Thanks...I remember i have similar discussion way back with Pakistani friends where i concluded the same thing...PAF was not as bad compared to IAF as was projected....However they were still outnumbered and there should be no doubt about it....

 

[ejaz007]

SIPRI says your data (taken from a Pakistani website) is wrong:

Two batches of Mirage 5s were ordered between 1960 and 1980 (the period to which the data above relates). The first batch was delivered between 1971 and 1972 and 2nd batch between 1980 and 1983. No Mirage 5 was delivered between 1973 and 1979.

I am going to give SIPRI more credence than any Pakistani website, if you don't mind.

There were no Mirage V in service with PAF in 1971. I believe the first batch was delivered in 1973.

 

[ejaz007]

11 Sabres were disabled by PAF in 1971 to prevent these from being taken by the IAF. I think 2 T-33 were also disabled.

 

[Areesh]

THanks for the articlet but buddy atleast understand the question and its response and then the context before pulling in things like that???

I presented it as it is a very good and reliable reference about PAF offensive operations in 71 war. Just to give you idea how things happened in 71 war and what PAF did in it. At least you weren't saying to some extent something which I can consider as a lie or fanboyism but can't say the same about other member. So I wanted to share the article as it is a good read about 71 war. Nothing personal though.

 

[Areesh]

@Deckingraj:

I have blocked the cutie pie who posted the Aeronaut article ( Aeronaut: PAF on the Offensive - 1971 War), so I am seeing this only now as part of your post.

Blocked. Come on John Doe. Last time it was me who ignored your rants on a thread. At least try to be original this time. Anyways good thing is that you made the right choice. You know if it would be me your tactics to prove Mirages destruction by using Jagan and B harry as a source would be your first and last mistake on this thread. You won't be left with anything but your pants or whatever you are wearing pulled down.

At least I am satisfied that my effort last time when we talked about alleged Pakistani UAV shot down by IA didn't go wasted.

Defence alert over Pakistani violation

Don't worry boy you might face me many times in this forum and believe me I would try my best to help you and add some sense to you.

 

[Norboo]

In two weeks of continuous bombing, including night raids, the IAF failed to destroy even one of the eleven grounded Sabres

Do you for a moment think that Indians are so stupid that they'll waste ammo on GROUNDED Sabres? Sheeeesh! I think I need to hit the beer bar!

Cheers!

 

[SQ8]

Do you for a moment think that Indians are so stupid that they'll waste ammo on GROUNDED Sabres? Sheeeesh! I think I need to hit the beer bar!

Cheers!

They wasted tons of ammo in 65 on deserted airfields..
So some mistakes do end up being repeated..

 

[Last Hope]

Alright guys. Let the Bhartis live in wet dreams, as we all know they love to do it.

Couldn't get their hands laid on Sabres hence they are pisssed off.
It doesn't matter to us if they accept the truth, does it?


After the Bharti forces advanced in East Pakistan, and the Air Bases were destroyed, the great PAF airmen decided to destroy the grounded fighters, which happened to half a dozen of F-86 Sabre and even a couple of trainers.

Ofcourse, there was no way they would be flown again, but in the end, the didn't want the Bharti Air Force to get their hands laid on PAF fighters, for apparantly 2 reasons:

i) Reverse-technology.
ii) Bharti Air Force inventory getting more jets, after they lost countless.

And oh, more details:

21 Bharti Air Force fighters were shot down by PAF in Air Battles, in 71. 6 of them were downed by Aim-9Bs, while rest were hit with cannon.

The 5th Squadron having Mirage 111Es, got 3 kills registered for them.

4 Dec (Flown by Flt. Lt. Naeem ata), over Jabbi, hit a Canberra with pilots: I M Sasoon and R M Advani. (Night kill)
5 Dec (Flown by Flt. Lt. Safdar Mehmood), over Sakesar, hit a Hunter with pilot, J M Mistry. Another Mirage 111E flown by Fly. Off. Suhail Hameed was in the dogfight and got part of the joint kill.
6 Dec(Flown by Flt. Lt. Naeem-uddin), over Jammu, downed a Su-7 flown by pilot, V K Wahi, with a AIM-9B.


These are the only Mirages flown in 1971, with the kills.
Rest were F-6 (six kills), F-86 (10 kills) and one kill was by F-104.

 

[SQ8]

Guys.
This thread is going nowhere..
Sadly some members have taken it as an ego fest.