How many countries does China have border disputes - Results of my search

[PeaceGen]

even if this is true: what are you gonna do about it?

you applied law of the jungle to half the world and now you talk about expansionism? a joke.

what's really a joke here is the fact you seem to think that after the west has established a world order, other powers would be allowed to challenge that order with unchallenged military expansions.

and what are we going to do about it? economic and diplomatic warfare, followed by real war if it should unfortunately come to that.

 

[beijingwalker]

what's really a joke here is the fact you seem to think that after the west has established a world order, other powers would be allowed to challenge that order with unchallenged military expansions.

and what are we going to do about it? economic and diplomatic warfare, followed by real war if it should unfortunately come to that.

Haha, who are you by the way?

 

[PeaceGen]

Haha, who are you by the way?

i'm just an average western (Dutch) citizen businessman..

and what i recommend China to do, is to focus on the future, short-term, mid-term and long-term, and to be completely, brutally, honest and open with the other nations that have placed a claim in the past on parts of the South China Sea (and other, more land-based) territories, which is ultimately based on 2 things : security, and economic harvest of resources in such territories..

China can from there on play as hardball as it wants, but i still recommend she tries to be *fair* instead.
Because only when ordinary people around the world can be told by the free press of the world and movie industries of the world that China is being *fair* *and* *honest* in it's claims, will China ever have any real basis for it's projection of the military that it's now spending a huge chunk of it's fortunes on.
Fortunes that could likely dry up quickly at some point once the west establishes a track record of warning China in more friendly tones.

Ultimately, this conflict is all about who has the more powerful coalition of nations, and because in any larger scale war it's the civilians who suffer, we here in the west convince our populations first of the need for war (which also gives our adversaries time to change their behavior), before we actually even *start* to make such wars a reality.

Meanwhile, over in Chinese leaderships they're playing a combo (metaphorically speaking) of the boardgames Go and Chess, and the cardgame Poker, combined with plenty of aggressive secrecy guarding and reprisal doctrines for dealing with "dissidents" (whistleblowers, we call 'm over here in the west)..

i honestly don't think that the Chinese are going to win with these ways of behaving themselves. Their ancient and brutal ways of dealing with dissidents and seperatists, are outdated in the age of viral news over the Internet and TV[1], but i'll email plenty of news papers including some Chinese ones that serve the internet public in English, about this post and it's content, to give my theory as described above here a chance of making it into reality.

[1] i think a much more positive and friendly way (honest popularity-increasing measures) is needed to prevent seperatism in the future, along with a more regional approach to the distribution of power. perhaps even a new consititution all together, before economic hardship caused by world-wide unpopular views of Beijing causes mass rioting all over China at the same time for a prolonged period of time, which has historically always been the trigger for rewriting of constitutions.
Sometimes it's better to attempt to pre-empt the *possible* worst-outcomes, with the very means sought by such events.

Honest and fair cooperation. That's the way forward, i hope and pray.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

what's really a joke here is the fact you seem to think that after the west has established a world order, other powers would be allowed to challenge that order with unchallenged military expansions.

and what are we going to do about it? economic and diplomatic warfare, followed by real war if it should unfortunately come to that.

Then it is what it is. As you said yourself, a hot war is OK, so you agree with law of the jungle.

In that case nothing is off the table. Let's see who survives.

 

[PeaceGen]

Then it is what it is. As you said yourself, a hot war is OK, so you agree with law of the jungle.

In that case nothing is off the table. Let's see who survives.

Law of the jungle you say. You mean the jungle caused by countries seeking to tap western wealth by for instance not respecting intellectual property rights? You know, like China can't even deny that it's doing at the moment and over the past few decades..

 

[PeaceGen]

Then it is what it is. As you said yourself, a hot war is OK, so you agree with law of the jungle.

In that case nothing is off the table. Let's see who survives.

you're willing then, to let the fate of millions upon millions be based on the opinions and theories of paranoid and power hungry Chinese officials.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

you're willing then, to let the fate of millions upon millions be based on the opinions and theories of paranoid and power hungry Chinese officials.

Whose to say who is paranoid and power hungry? Chinese have done nothing but develop ourselves and help others. We built a railroad in Tanzania in the 1970s before China had much rail as just one example.

Meanwhile nobody has ever apologized or paid reparations for the Opium War or global imperialism. You never paid reparations to Indonesia or other Dutch colonies. The bill is long. One part of the bill did come due in 1600 when Netherlands was evicted from Taiwan though.

But that's all peripheral. What you have proven is that you preach morality and "rationality" when you aren't sure if you'll win, and use brute force when victory is assured, like in Indonesia. That means you believe in might is right, law of the jungle. That's why I don't ever argue morality with the likes of you - you don't really believe in morality anyways. I only let you know that your strength is insufficient and will be like an egg hitting a rock.

 

[PeaceGen]

Whose to say who is paranoid and power hungry? Chinese have done nothing but develop ourselves and help others. We built a railroad in Tanzania in the 1970s before China had much rail as just one example.

Meanwhile nobody has ever apologized or paid reparations for the Opium War or global imperialism. You never paid reparations to Indonesia or other Dutch colonies. The bill is long. One part of the bill did come due in 1600 when Netherlands was evicted from Taiwan though.

But that's all peripheral. What you have proven is that you preach morality and "rationality" when you aren't sure if you'll win, and use brute force when victory is assured, like in Indonesia. That means you believe in might is right, law of the jungle. That's why I don't ever argue morality with the likes of you - you don't really believe in morality anyways. I only let you know that your strength is insufficient and will be like an egg hitting a rock.

ok, this is where things get a little complicated. you bringing our western histories, which are filled with black pages just like China's or virtually any other nation on Earth is like. Fact is we've seen conflict between humans drive eachother into war and slavery all over the Earth, all throughout history, until long distance freight shipping by sea, the international arms trade, railroads, TV, and internet, ended that (and continues to fight for that today).

let it also be noted that we here in the west opened up our borders to immigrants, also from the regions that were once colonial outposts.

and as to our strength : this is yet another time where you prove your ill intentions.
if we'll have to increase our strength, or degrade yours, that is now beyond doubt something we'll just need to do.
we will NOT be dominated by Chinese secret aggression.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

ok, this is where things get a little complicated. you bringing our western histories, which are filled with black pages just like China's or virtually any other nation on Earth is like. Fact is we've seen conflict between humans drive eachother into war and slavery all over the Earth, all throughout history, until TV and internet ended that (and continues to fight for that today).

let it also be noted that we here in the west opened up our borders to immigrants, also from the regions that were once colonial outposts.

and as to our strength : this is yet another time where you prove your ill intentions.
if we'll have to increase our strength, or degrade yours, that is now beyond doubt something we'll just need to do.
we will NOT be dominated by Chinese secret aggression.

The west opened it's borders to bring talented and rich in. You aren't bringing in disabled and illiterate refugees, not really.

TV and internet did not end war and slavery. War and slavery is happening in Libya right now, caused not even by the US, but by your very own EU.

Libya also revealed your weakness, where you had trouble with an air campaign over a weak African country less than 100 miles from Europe and the US had to step in.

 

[PeaceGen]

The west opened it's borders to bring talented and rich in. You aren't bringing in disabled and illiterate refugees, not really.

TV and internet did not end war and slavery. War and slavery is happening in Libya right now, caused not even by the US, but by your very own EU.

Libya also revealed your weakness, where you had trouble with an air campaign over a weak African country less than 100 miles from Europe and the US had to step in.

this proves how blatantly ignorant you really are on the topic of history.
there's no point in arguing with you, you just blame the west for problems you create yourselves, anyhow.

and the nation of Libya was punished (but not to the point of completely slaughtering all of Libya's troops and commanders) for trying to overthrow the international gold standard. i can be that open with you.

so you know what, if you promise not to try to derail yourself into tirades about false accusations about the west's history, and promise not to derail this conversation into anything other than China's near and mid-term future and plans therefore, *then* we can keep chatting.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

this proves how blatantly ignorant you really are on the topic of history.
there's no point in arguing with you, you just blame the west for problems you create yourselves, anyhow.

and the nation of Libya was punished (but not to the point of completely slaughtering all of Libya's troops and commanders) for trying to overthrow the international gold standard. i can be that open with you.

so you know what, if you promise not to try to derail yourself into tirades about false accusations about the west's history, and promise not to derail this conversation into anything other than China's near and mid-term future and plans therefore, *then* we can keep chatting.

What did I say was false? You accepted what I said as truth, but simply said that every nation has a black page in history. I can accept that, but you explicitly did not say my statement was false.

The simple fact is, you are uncomfortable with me saying that I don't argue morality and only care about strength. You are uncomfortable with me using the western philosophy of might is right. You are uncomfortable, essentially, with me behaving like an American.

 

[PeaceGen]

What did I say was false? You accepted what I said as truth, but simply said that every nation has a black page in history. I can accept that, but you explicitly did not say my statement was false.

you're right in principle, but i still believe that looking toward the future is more important than looking toward the past.

and you were out of line on some points already when you started to go into specific accusations, once again : that only derails our discussion, which should be about China's near and mid-term future plans for the region it's located in.

The simple fact is, you are uncomfortable with me saying that I don't argue morality and only care about strength. You are uncomfortable with me using the western philosophy of might is right. You are uncomfortable, essentially, with me behaving like an American.

of course i'm uncomfortable with that. the west *won* the international wars, to an extent. and now China wants to expand the wars again, all the while denying that it is up to such plans, in very transparent ways.

as to which is mightier, China or the west and it's *many* free nation allies, we'll see.
i already went into what the west and it's citizens might do, i already went into what China could do to prevent such measures from becoming a necessity. so i'm not going to repeat myself within one thread, ok.

 

[beijingwalker]

Almost all long standing conflicts today can be traced back to western domination, Palestine-Israel, India-Pakistan..what a legacy.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

1. Japan – Parts of South China Sea particularly Senkaku Islands, Ryukyu Islands are claimed by Japan and both countries are over a long time tussle with this boundary issue
2. Vietnam – Chinese claim large parts of Vietnam on historical precedent (Ming Dynasty, 1368-1644). Also, Macclesfield Bank, Paracel Islands, parts of the South China Sea and the Spratly Islands.
3. India – China occupies 38,000 sq km Indian territory that goes by the name Aksai Chin. It also claims Arunachal Pradesh and Ladakh. These led to the recent clashes between the PLA and the Indian Army.
4. Nepal – China claims parts of Nepal dating back to the Sino-Nepalese War in 1788-1792. China claims they are part of Tibet, and hence a part of China.
5. North Korea – Baekdu Mountain and Jiandao. China has also on occasion claimed all of North Korea on historical grounds (Yuan Dynasty, 1271-1368).
6. The Philippines – Parts of the South China Sea are contested between the China and Phillippines. The Philippines took this to the International Court of Justice, where they won the case but the Chinese did not abide by the order of the ICJ.
7. Russia – 160,000 square kms is still unilaterally claimed by China, despite China signing several agreements to pacify the disputed area.
8. Singapore – Parts of the South China Sea are contested by both countries.
9. South Korea – Parts of the East China Sea. China has also on occasion claimed all of South Korea on historical grounds (Yuan Dynasty, 1271-1368).
10. Bhutan – Bhutanese enclaves in Tibet, namely Cherkip Gompa, Dho, Dungmar, Gesur, Gezon, Itse Gompa, Khochar, Nyanri, Ringung, Sanmar, Tarchen and Zuthulphuk. Also Kula Kangri and mountainous areas to the west of this peak and the western Haa District of Bhutan is claimed by China.
11. Taiwan – China claims all of Taiwan, but particularly Macclesfi eld Bank, Paracel Islands, Scarborough Shoal, parts of the South China Sea and the Spratly Islands. The Paracel Islands, also called Xisha Islands in Vietnamese, is a group of islands in the South China Sea whose sovereignty is disputed among China, Taiwan and Vietnam disputes the land with Burma.
12. Laos – China claims large areas of Laos on historical precedent again(China’s Yuan Dynasty, 1271-1368).
13. Brunei – Spratly Islands.
14. Tajikistan – China claims this based on historical precedent (Qing Dynasty, 1644-1912).
15. Cambodia – China has, on several occasions, claimed parts of Cambodia on historical grounds(China’s Ming Dynasty, 1368-1644).
16. Indonesia – Parts of the South China Sea.
17. Malaysia – Parts of the South China Sea, particularly Spratly Islands.
18. Mongolia – Chinese claim all of Mongolia on historical precedent (Yuan Dynasty, 1271-1368). Interestingly, Mongolia, under Genghis Khan, occupied China.

PEW RESEARCH _ https://www.pewresearch.org/global/...china-reach-historic-highs-in-many-countries/


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Unfavorable Views of China Reach Historic Highs in Many Countries
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This crap looks good on power point in big hall where indians trying to portray pic of china as an evil empire when india is having thins exact trouble with everyone of its neighbours.

 

[beijingwalker]

of course i'm uncomfortable with that. the west *won* the international wars, to an extent. and now China wants to expand the wars again,

What a stupid accusation, China hasn't fired a single shot at her borders for 4 decades and China has 14 neigbors, the most in the world, China can be arguably the most peaceful nation in the world.