How many actual sanghis are present on this forum ?

[Sharma Ji]

I am sure there are dozens of times when the central government got people arrested because they posted something online. Why was she not arrested ?

lol, you even been on the twitters ? The amount of shit people post online, a lot of it "violent". We don't have enough jails if we start doing that.

As I asked you originally, why did she and her colleagues get trained in sword fight ( actually cutting ) ? You too know this is not for self-defense. This is the same as RSS teaching stick fight and how to fire guns. What big event do these people expect where they will use their training ?

I don't know much about the durga vahini, or the RSS, in terms of how they train and why they train in lathis, pellet guns and swords. That's why I was looking for real RSS guys here, they would have given us the inside dope. The poll is full of trolls to who voted yes.

Gun to aap bhi chala lete ho, expert sniper of street doggos

found a couple videos.

this is good, self defense training for girls.

tumhari inse fat ti hai ?

 

[Soumitra]

So talk peace with Pakistan and end the Kashmir dispute once and for all. What do you plan to do otherwise for 1000 years later ? Will you live that long ?

Talks and terror don't go together. In fact India should withdraw diplomatic relations with Pakistan till cross border terror stops

1. What do you mean by suspicious ?

Muslims marrying Hindus just for conversion. According to your own holy book it is prohibited to marry Kaffirs. Since you can't change the holy book , practicing Muslims can't deviate from it, and the stated goal of many Muslims is population increase any Hindu Muslim marriage should be looked at suspiciously till proven otherwise.

2. Do you not want inter-religious marriages because they are actually needed for national integration ?

No. See my comment above

The original Islamic marriage law for divorce is for the talaq pronouncements to be done over three months. Within that period the husband and wife are expected to visit the qazi ( the local judge ) and seek guidance. This is similar to modern troubled couples visiting marriage counselors. By the way, the wife can also initiate a divorce in Islamic marriage law.

3 second talaq was legal in India till last year. Now it is 3 months. Why can't they go through proper court proceedings?

BTW @xeuss ran away and did not answer my questions in post 163,167,169. Maybe you can answer them

 

[jamahir]

this is good, self defense training for girls.

Self defense ? Sure, sure.

So again I ask, what big event do they expect this training to be used in ?

tumhari inse fat ti hai ?

We all know that in the end they turn out like this :

And why can't these "disciplined" gentlemen and ladies be sent to the China border ?

 

[Naofumi]

Muslims marrying Hindus just for conversion. According to your own holy book it is prohibited to marry Kaffirs. Since you can't change the holy book , practicing Muslims can't deviate from it, and the stated goal of many Muslims is population increase any Hindu Muslim marriage should be looked at suspiciously till proven otherwise.

What of Hindu marrying Muslims girls? Why that is not an issue?

 

[Sharma Ji]

Muslims marrying Hindus just for conversion. According to your own holy book it is prohibited to marry Kaffirs. Since you can't change the holy book , practicing Muslims can't deviate from it, and the stated goal of many Muslims is population increase any Hindu Muslim marriage should be looked at suspiciously till proven otherwise.

Unless there is coercion, it is ok I guess. Love knows no boundaries. I doubt any non muslim women would be willing get into that union with a hardcore practicing mullah type anyway, y'know, the kind that get triggered by "idol worship" or any other traditional Indian/Dharmi practices.

Know of a few Hindu-Muslim ones, including one where a muslim girl married a Hindu guy, but then again, not your rural small town story, phoren educated not very religious and kind of well to do logon ki kahaniya hain. Even so, it is exceedingly rare, even for ekdum rahees richy rich type mullahs to allow their daughters to marry a Hindu.

Hindus are waay more liberal, up and down the socio-economic strata, when it comes to being ok with their women marrying muslims.

Whole thing is very rare in general, but yeah, this extreme conservatism and clinging to their religion. Muslims are waay more tribal when it comes to that. Bada mushkil hai inko progress karvana, baaki kafir fir bhi modern age me aa jayenge. They are the stubborn bhainsey or ghodas of India, jo ya toh paani se niklenge nahi, ya paani peeyenge nahi.

don't hate muslims, but this is very true of them in India.

@xeuss @Naofumi @The_Showstopper .. wouldn't you guys agree ?

Self defense ? Sure, sure.

So again I ask, what big even do they expect this training to be used in ?

In that video they seem to be learning taekwondo or something, self defense training is good. What exactly is the problem here ?

And why can't these "disciplined" gentlemen and ladies be sent to the China border ?

Because we already have a fauj ?

If the Chinese ever do a USA in Iraq and become occupying forces in cities all over India, you'll see them join the fight.

 

[Naofumi]

@xeuss @Naofumi @The_Showstopper .. wouldn't you guys agree ?

Look you will have your "Hindu" perceptions which is bound to be subjective. For me, I believe the attitudes are more predictable by literacy and other variables than religious denominations (these two being correlated is another issue), I myself know my "tuition wali teacher" - a Muslim girl who eloped with a Hindu guy and is still living peacefully though her family disowned her - neither of them were educated or rich to any considerable degree, also know a Muslim boy who was killed by his Gujjar in-laws (same Gujjar family had another MD sister who was killed by Hindu in-laws for dowry). All in all, I will recommend that if you want to assimilate Muslims, give us security from riots/lynching etc and also increase the participation in economy, jobs, armed forces etc.. Targeting Muslim literacy to be around 75%+ can be a good start otherwise we can do Hindu-Muslim for ages and likes of China will keep f*cking us.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

You cited 0 facts as matter of fact itself and I cited around 5-6 ones.

So should I start posting links of problems of non-Muslims and Muslims in countries like Myanmar, SL, Europe, etc? Or the problems between Muslims themselves in Middle East? Isn't that just too obvious?

Also, progressing requires money-investments, targeted alleviations, it's speaks volumes that you are conveniently ignoring that.

Agreed. But you didn't even get my point, did you? The continuous blaming of others and being blind to your own faults? For example, why isn't the Christian/Sikh/Parsi literacy rate less than Muslims?

My main point is: Muslims need to reform themselves quickly. If they don't, they only hurt themselves which is pretty visible. They should take inspiration from a country like Turkey who developed themselves by coming out of all the religious dogma.

You can't say others are at fault and then conveniently reject reforms like banning of Triple Talaq, burkha, etc.

I'm not talking about you over here as you like a pretty progressive guy. Instead, I'm talking about the other rigid guys.


I'm going to take a break from PDF now. It has simply become too toxic where everything has gone out of control and mods like @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Slav Defence @Moonlight don't seem to care. I remember a thread where some Pakistanis were killed in an air crash in which Pakistanis were falsely accusing of Indians celebrating the deaths of Pakistanis and calling all sorts of names to Indians. But now, just look at that China thread where fake ids and original accounts are enjoying themselves.

At most, I'll become a spectator with some additions in the music thread. At least for a month.

Auf Wiedersehen.

 

[Naofumi]

So should I start posting links of problems of non-Muslims and Muslims in countries like Myanmar, SL, Europe, etc? Or the problems between Muslims themselves in Middle East? Isn't that just too obvious?

Didn't we agreed that Muslims are not monolithic and I am interested in Indian Muslims only? I not that why I posted only India specific survey?? Didn't you still get it now? Did you?

Agreed. But you didn't even get my point, did you? The continuous blaming of others and being blind to your own faults? For example, why isn't the Christian/Sikh/Parsi literacy rate less than Muslims?

My main point is: Muslims need to reform themselves quickly. If they don't, they only hurt themselves which is pretty visible. They should take inspiration from a country like Turkey who developed themselves by coming out of all the religious dogma.

You can't say others are at fault and then conveniently reject reforms like banning of Triple Talaq, burkha, etc.

I'm not talking about you over here as you like a pretty progressive guy. Instead, I'm talking about the other rigid guys.

Religious dogma is not reformed without being trumped out by the economic and scientific advancement - case in point - Reformed Judaism is found in upper echelons in Ashkenazi Jews - lower ones are Mizrahi or Haredim as a rule of thumb, you have to provide advancement to Indian Muslims to sped up the assimilation.
My main point is - Saying "you don't progress" is a stupid statement as Christians/Parsis/Jains or even Dalit-converted-to-Buddhism enjoy better stats than Hindus, so is Hinduism keeping those Hindus backward? Or we have to look at it in a more nuanced way? I would say yes. And that's not it, we have to identify and alleviate the specific reasons which are serving as the roadblock and it's not always the religion both in Dalit or Muslim cases, I just ask you have a more constructive look. Moreover, findings like of Sachar committee or other recommendations are not being implemented fully, BJP/RSS serving as a roadblock itself. If you are targeting Muslims to be backward and oppose the alleviation programs or even reservations then you are nothing but anti-Muslim hypocrite.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

@Naofumi paper khatam?

 

[Naofumi]

@Naofumi paper khatam?

Nahi, abhi nahi. Aise hi online aa gaya tha Sunday ko, phir login kar liya...

 

[jamahir]

At most, I'll become a spectator with some additions in the music thread. At least for a month.

Do post and watch there.

Talks and terror don't go together. In fact India should withdraw diplomatic relations with Pakistan till cross border terror stops

Militancy in Kashmir aided by Pakistan-based groups... How will that stop until the Indian and Pakistani Establishments sit down for talks ? How long will you keep waiting for the militancy to stop ?

Do you see any other way other than talks and resumption of peace missions like 'Aman ki Asha' and 'Pakistan-India People's Forum for Peace and Democracy' ?

Muslims marrying Hindus just for conversion. According to your own holy book it is prohibited to marry Kaffirs. Since you can't change the holy book , practicing Muslims can't deviate from it

Islamically, Muslims are allowed to marry the 'People of the Book' - Christians, Jews, Sabians and probably a few other 'Book' peoples I am not aware of.

But we know that the Muslim Jalaluddin Muhammad Akbar famously married the Hindu Jodha bai. There must be other such cases.

Then, in modern context there is no point in preventing Hindu-Muslim inter-marriage if a man and woman like each other. It will contribute to building a bit more national integration. In fact, the Establishment should promote such marriages.

and the stated goal of many Muslims is population increase

Rubbish.

3 second talaq was legal in India till last year.

No. It simply used to happen. It was illegal by Islamic law and done by ignorant men and abetted by mullahs, both parties unaware of the proper law.

Now it is 3 months.

So you agree that it has gone back to actual Islamic law ?

Why can't they go through proper court proceedings?

Mainly because true Islamic divorce and civil court divorce are similar.

And if that is the case and considering my line to your previous quoted question, why can't Islamic socio-economic laws inspire adaptations for India ? Things like interest-free loans, closure of the stock exchanges and land reform. Just today @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan mentioned me in this comment :

For example, Hazrat Omar bin Al Khattab RA initiated land reform in the nascent Islamic state where land became the property of the state and was distributed based on need and not familial ties. Most of all, land could not be inherited. You may interested in this @jamahir

BTW @xeuss ran away and did not answer my questions in post 163,167,169. Maybe you can answer them

A UCC and a population control bill would do that but the M's are the biggest opposers to it, not the Jains, Buddhist, Christian, or Sikhs. I wonder why? Maybe because M's consider religion above country and Quran above Constitution.

1. I have no objection to UCC as long as it is not a one-sided stick to beat the Muslims and instead applies equally to all communities. I would welcome knowledgeable Muslims to come forward to present ideas from Real Islam which can help all communities - like the ones I referred to earlier - socio-economic reform. This will help India towards being a welfare state.

2. In one or two threads, @xeuss had a list of questions about UCC being equally applied to all. xeuss, do you remember ?

also know a Muslim boy who was killed by his Gujjar in-laws (same Gujjar family had another MD sister who was killed by Hindu in-laws for dowry).

Ah, the irony.

Unless there is coercion, it is ok I guess. Love knows no boundaries. I doubt any non muslim women would be willing get into that union with a hardcore practicing mullah type anyway, y'know, the kind that get triggered by "idol worship" or any other traditional Indian/Dharmi practices.

Know of a few Hindu-Muslim ones, including one where a muslim girl married a Hindu guy, but then again, not your rural small town story, phoren educated not very religious and kind of well to do logon ki kahaniya hain. Even so, it is exceedingly rare, even for ekdum rahees richy rich type mullahs to allow their daughters to marry a Hindu.

Hindus are waay more liberal, up and down the socio-economic strata, when it comes to being ok with their women marrying muslims.

Whole thing is very rare in general, but yeah, this extreme conservatism and clinging to their religion. Muslims are waay more tribal when it comes to that. Bada mushkil hai inko progress karvana, baaki kafir fir bhi modern age me aa jayenge. They are the stubborn bhainsey or ghodas of India, jo ya toh paani se niklenge nahi, ya paani peeyenge nahi.

don't hate muslims, but this is very true of them in India.

There was a thread many years ago on PDF which had a list of Hindu-Muslim inter-marriages in India.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Look you will have your "Hindu" perceptions which is bound to be subjective. For me, I believe the attitudes are more predictable by literacy and other variables than religious denominations (these two being correlated is another issue), I myself know my "tuition wali teacher" - a Muslim girl who eloped with a Hindu guy and is still living peacefully though her family disowned her - neither of them were educated or rich to any considerable degree, also know a Muslim boy who was killed by his Gujjar in-laws (same Gujjar family had another MD sister who was killed by Hindu in-laws for dowry). All in all, I will recommend that if you want to assimilate Muslims, give us security from riots/lynching etc and also increase the participation in economy, jobs, armed forces etc.. Targeting Muslim literacy to be around 75%+ can be a good start otherwise we can do Hindu-Muslim for ages and likes of China will keep f*cking us.

There's no way to get stats on number of Hindu Muslim intermarriage, is there ? It'd be nice to get a hold of them and further break them down first by gender, and then by socio economic status. In the absence of that objective data though, we have only our subjective perceptions to rely on.

Dowry, honour killings aka murder and families disowning their own kids.. just terrible. Good to know that couple are living peacefully. Gujjars are hardcore, one of my fiends had similar story too, Hindu girl's father and family emotionally blackmailed her and it led to her coming back after eloping.

Agree, education along with a lessened focus on religion and tribalism is key for all parties here. Riots and lynchings ka hum pe kyu thop rahe ho ? Rare instances hai, thankfully. Schooling is free, armed forces are volunteers, I would encourage more Muslims to join for sure. A completely secular non political establishment, people get along really well there with a singular focus on doing their job. A most honourable profession, you should seriously consider it man, focus on your physical fitness for now also. It's a massive field, there's so much to do there, doctors, scientists, researchers, engineering, logistics, accounting (ugh), computer sciences, aviation, even marketing.. you name it.. and once in, they'll fund your higher education in chosen field (if related to your duties) .. once out, highly coveted by the private sector, both for your discipline and your skills. I have an uncle, retired at a brigadier rank, CTO in one of the top companies now. Job security bhi, can ride out global market crashes etc, koi tension nahi. If more muslims start signing up, it'll go a long long way in improving the kind of societal problems we're discussing here too. Think about it.

 

[jamahir]

Dowry, honour killings aka murder and families disowning their own kids

Add student suicides too. Basically family-arranged murder.

one of my fiends had similar story too, Hindu girl's father and family emotionally blackmailed her and it led to her coming back after eloping.

Is she well ? Didn't she approach the police or the courts ?

 

[Naofumi]

Riots and lynchings ka hum pe kyu thop rahe ho ? Rare instances hai, thankfully.

But no one wants to become that rare person in that just like no one wants to be the rare person in plane hijackings, Ghettoization is partly triggered by that instinctual feeling to not end up like that rare one as the video posted above demonstrates.

Agree, education along with a lessened focus on religion and tribalism is key for all parties here. Riots and lynchings ka hum pe kyu thop rahe ho ? Rare instances hai, thankfully. Schooling is free, armed forces are volunteers, I would encourage more Muslims to join for sure. A completely secular non political establishment, people get along really well there with a singular focus on doing their job. A most honourable profession, you should seriously consider it man, focus on your physical fitness for now also. It's a massive field, there's so much to do there, doctors, scientists, researchers, engineering, logistics, accounting (ugh), computer sciences, aviation, even marketing.. you name it.. and once in, they'll fund your higher education in chosen field (if related to your duties) .. once out, highly coveted by the private sector, both for your discipline and your skills. I have an uncle, retired at a brigadier rank, CTO in one of the top companies now. Job security bhi, can ride out global market crashes etc, koi tension nahi. If more muslims start signing up, it'll go a long long way in improving the kind of societal problems we're discussing here too. Think about it.

Agreed but the percentage has declined since independence. "Communal" Owaisi have pointed out the issue but was shut up by "We don't see religion of soldiers, you are communalising Army". I simply mean that government needs to acknowledge the problem(s) and put some efforts.

 

[Soumitra]

Do post and watch there.



Militancy in Kashmir aided by Pakistan-based groups... How will that stop until the Indian and Pakistani Establishments sit down for talks ? How long will you keep waiting for the militancy to stop ?

Do you see any other way other than talks and resumption of peace missions like 'Aman ki Asha' and 'Pakistan-India People's Forum for Peace and Democracy' ?



Islamically, Muslims are allowed to marry the 'People of the Book' - Christians, Jews, Sabians and probably a few other 'Book' peoples I am not aware of.

But we know that the Muslim Jalaluddin Muhammad Akbar famously married the Hindu Jodha bai. There must be other such cases.

Then, in modern context there is no point in preventing Hindu-Muslim inter-marriage if a man and woman like each other. It will contribute to building a bit more national integration. In fact, the Establishment should promote such marriages.



Rubbish.



No. It simply used to happen. It was illegal by Islamic law and done by ignorant men and abetted by mullahs, both parties unaware of the proper law.



So you agree that it has gone back to actual Islamic law ?



Mainly because true Islamic divorce and civil court divorce are similar.

And if that is the case and considering my line to your previous quoted question, why can't Islamic socio-economic laws inspire adaptations for India ? Things like interest-free loans, closure of the stock exchanges and land reform. Just today @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan mentioned me in this comment :







1. I have no objection to UCC as long as it is not a one-sided stick to beat the Muslims and instead applies equally to all communities. I would welcome knowledgeable Muslims to come forward to present ideas from Real Islam which can help all communities - like the ones I referred to earlier - socio-economic reform. This will help India towards being a welfare state.

2. In one or two threads, @xeuss had a list of questions about UCC being equally applied to all. xeuss, do you remember ?



Ah, the irony.



There was a thread many years ago on PDF which had a list of Hindu-Muslim inter-marriages in India.

@KhanBaba2 see he wants Islamic banking, Islamic marriage, Islamic divorce, Islamic land laws, friendship with terrorists. Why shouldn't I call him an Islamist?