What's new

How LETHAL is PAF J-10C Vigorous Dragon? The Game Changer for Pakistan Air Force...by Sqn Ldr (R) Fahad Masood, a former PAF mirage specialist.

:rofl:ok sir!!! orr kuch???

yr a real life maverick!!!!

tom cruise take that!!!

or han, NEZ mean No Escape Zone......its the same bull crap that u have written in this post abt optical BVR missile launch parameters.. NEZ varies for different kind of missiles. For a slim single pulse missile like AIM120C-5 NEZ is different. For fatter missiles like AIM-54 Phoenix, SD10A/B, PL12 its different. The more u go high in altitude the better for these kind of missiles. Best launch parameters for SD10 for max performance are above 30K feet, below that it starts suffering drag. Air get thinner and thinner as u go high. And get thicker and thicker as u go low resulting in different flight performances of an a/c as well as in performance of these missiles and bombs. Thin air, u dont suffer as much of a drag as much u suffer in denser air and the more u go down the denser it becomes. There is a reason why these days hardly any pilot flies his a/c at mach 2 at low terrain hugging altitudes. Unless absolutely necessary to get out of hot zone try to stay below radars.....

What yr talking abt r the flight launch parameters of an aim120c which is slimmer and BTW if u dont know, below 3K feet it also starts suffering drag. Resulting in its lower performance interms of range/speed. That so called 10-12km yr talking abt of aim120 failing to reach a target going cold is due to that! Its most likely was fired around 1500 or 1000 feet altitude or below.

And now lets talking abt pl15 in view of the above, the reason why i said that NEZ r different b/w single pulse and duel pulse motor missiles is because, when fired at an altitude ie above 30K ideally......It will go even faster ie at mach 4 and with longer ranges upto even 200+ if u loft it. Loft ka pta ha na k kya hota ha when it comes to missile launch k wo b btaon? PL15 is basically 2 pl12 merged together with an AESA seeker giving it lock after launch capability in other words its fire n forget same as israeli I-Derby-ER. Means pilots will just have to get their bearings right and just launch this missile even if their own a/c radar is not picking any target, by launching this missile in the general direction of enemy a/c at high altitude, he can just turn cold or dive to loose his altitude ie defensive maneuvers save his life and the aircraft's. and forget abt the missile. Missile's own AESA at terminal phase will guide her to the target all by herself picking the closest target herself autonomously. These both PL15/12 have huge fins for maneuverability resulting in their 95% kill rate vs an Aim 120C-5 according to ACE OF PAF guys, the trick is to just launch it in its correct parameters. PAF had score a record 80km su30 kill in op. swift retort with an aim120c by doing exactly the same thing, as they launched it at altitude and lofted the missile while launching, resulting in its better NEZ while average NEZ for aim 120 is around 20-37 nm(37-68.5km). That 80km kill was a 43.2nm kill.

Now these modern missiles like Meteor and PL15 AIM120D and AIM262 and new Russian R series missiles abb NEZ ka chakkar he khatam ho gya ha. Now a/c can go far beyond their usual NEZ which was ideally b/w 20 to 37 nm before for older missiles like aim120C series which were actually designed in 80s/90s. One of the reasons why now America is investing on newer 21st century missiles like AIM262 with extremely high ranges.

And this Meteor is an excellent low altitude launch missile same as MICA. French missiles r known to perform excellently in low altitude........And why is Meteor is excellent in low altitude is because of its ramjet engine, its an air breathing missile meaning its never going to lose energy till the last second of its entire 180km flight path and will only stop when its internal fuel runs out......Meaning in low altitudes where air is denser its performances would be best, and more lower u will go the better. While in high altitude it will be shit because of the same reason, thinner air. It wont give u its full 180 km range and its full speed of mach 4. Its NEZ is claimed to be 60km in google but thats no correct if its launched at its right parameters.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, an english idiom.....u know things only over the surface but answers are in details. Update yourself, aim120c is old missile u no longer can use it as a benchmark of excellence to compare modern 21st century BVRAAMs.
So let the professionals talk abt these things, they know better, this Fahad Masood is a guy whose home sqn no15 cobras is being reequipped with j10s, his own course and sqn maters r right flying this jet as i write this post. SO LISTEN TO HIM!

@SQ8 or han Amreeki chacha, read this post.....i do watch DCS world, am a long time subscriber, i even follow DCS World events

I would suggest u to subscribe to them, real life young PAF pilots also take part in their tournaments and championships they arrange. And r learning the art of BVR, tactics, tricks, correct and optimum launch parameters for different types of missiles from playing their championships. Following only Growlingsidewinder isnt enough.

Or just focus on yr grocery store in US, i heard a Black man with a knife was roaming around yr store today to loot yr bihari a'''':lol: Focus on yr new life buddy not on foreign countries like ours.
Talking about the NEZ, did your knee jerk post throwing missile names left and righr take into account you literally repeated his post to try and prove him… correct??
So the NEZ is dead? Has physics changed?
Energy conservation is finished because 3rd rate wannabe pilot Bcom graduate wants to project his insecurities?

Define the NEZ - I dare your three brain cells which have decided to put growling sidewinder as the quickest channel he could remember trying to act smart on DCS.

And then the poor racist resorts to low level attacks because his otherwise pathetic understanding is exposed?
I will whatever do I want regarding Pakistan , neither you nor your entire family genetics can ever do anything about it. Frankly your establishment couldn’t do jack either.

I won’t bother to read this badly written waste of time. Should have stopped responding when I saw the -20 ratings. I don’t know why people like this are allowed on the forum. All they do is spread misinformation and insult others because they can’t do anything worthwhile to feed their egos. Pathetic.
Just a racist lowlife trying to act all smart
Poor fellow went to state the NEZ no longer exists - RIP physics
 
.
Maa Sadke!!!! more like grapes r sour arnt they? But then again, yr a Real life Maverick who knows abt these things better then real life pilots, who fly and use these missiles.....and whose sqn is reequipping with these jets.

Tom Cruise take that!!!!! we got a real life Maverick in this forum:enjoy::enjoy::enjoy:
At least he isn’t acting like a Bhaktora bitch hiding behind emojis crying about thick and thin missiles without being able to actually quote phenomena behind it.
 
.
Talking about the NEZ, did your knee jerk post throwing missile names left and righr take into account you literally repeated his post to try and prove him… correct??
So the NEZ is dead? Has physics changed?
Energy conservation is finished because 3rd rate wannabe pilot Bcom graduate wants to project his insecurities?

Define the NEZ - I dare your three brain cells which have decided to put growling sidewinder as the quickest channel he could remember trying to act smart on DCS.

And then the poor racist resorts to low level attacks because his otherwise pathetic understanding is exposed?

Not that I am bihari but by your picture it looks like some Bihari dna got mixed with you.. sure your dad is your dad?

I will whatever do I want regarding Pakistan , neither you nor your entire family genetics can ever do anything about it. Frankly your establishment couldn’t do jack either.


Just a racist lowlife trying to act all smart
Poor fellow went to state the NEZ no longer exists - RIP physics
yr non integrated self certainly can be thrown out of this forum, cant it be?? afterall u were just another non naturalized citizen.

Energy conservation is a thing for single pulse conventional motor missiles. NOT for ramjet aided missiles like Meteor. And for duel pulse motor missiles NEZ is different vs single pulse missiles. In short NEZ concepts have been changed. Thats what i was referring to even if u still dont agree if its no longer applicable. Meteors arnt going to loose energy if launched in correct parameters.

Let the real pilots talk abt such things since they know what they r talking abt, rather then some random guy in a public forum whom we dont even know who he is and what r his own credentials.

i already told him that ''NEZ ARE DIFFERENT FOR DIFFERENT TYPES OF MISSILES'' he replied that i dont know what u mean by that hence i explained in detail.

The photo is of my Shaheed Friend Capt. Akash Rabbani..........dont insult our martyrs and just focus on yr life in yr own country.....leave a foreign country like ours alone.

Goodbye.
 
.
yr non integrated self certainly can be thrown out of this forum, cant it be?? afterall u were just another non naturalized citizen.

Energy conservation is a thing for single pulse conventional motor missiles. NOT for ramjet aided missiles like Meteor. And for duel pulse motor missiles NEZ is different vs single pulse missiles. In short NEZ concepts have been changed. Thats what i was referring to even if u still dont agree if its no longer applicable. Meteors arnt going to loose energy if launched in correct parameters.

Let the real pilots talk abt such things since they know what they r talking abt, rather then some random guy in a public forum whom we dont even know who he is and what r his own credentials.

i already told him that ''NEZ ARE DIFFERENT FOR DIFFERENT TYPES OF MISSILES'' he replied that i dont know what u mean by that hence i explained in detail.

The photo is of my Shaheed Friend Capt. Akash Rabbani..........dont insult our martyrs and just focus on yr life in yr own country.....leave a foreign country like ours alone.

Goodbye.
Oh … so ramjet missiles don’t have physics applied to them?

So the meteor with its wider NEZ isn’t affected at all by mass, fuel weight or drag? Did you ever read basic physics!?!!!

Is the meteor going to continue flying perpetually compared to a AIM-120C?

What bakwas… read what he was referring to.
He isn’t talking about the NEZs being different - he was referring to the NEZ of the PL-15

As for your shaheed friend? Did he share your nasalparast ghatiya soch or was he martyred not knowing you stand against everything this country stood for. People like you like to talk all Pakistaniat but would probably be part of the crowd abusing Fatima Jinnah when she stood against Ayub.

As for foreign country - Your kind isn’t worth 1/20th of the journey that brought me here…

Learn to either be civil or kindly get lost with your racist upbringing .
 
.
with respect, its conformed by a pilot who himself is a mirage pilot and mirage pilots r flying j10s in PAF. AND WITH RESPECT AS WELL, his own home sqn no 15 cobras is being reequipped with j10s.

So he knows very well what he is talking abt. And his specific words were PL 15 has a range of 200+ that ''+'' is the key word here be it really 250 or 300 as USAF believes. Whatever the case it out ranges METEOR which is what we want.

and PAF has PL15 from PLAAF stock (since early march 2019 atleast, much before PL15E were revealed) NOT PL15E who have 145 km range.

Maybe, and I repeat Maybe,

The difference in understanding is a missile traveling 250KM and a missile being capable of hitting an enemy aircraft from 250KM.

Two very different things.
 
.
As a student, I must comment that immigrating to the US is indeed ridiculously difficult - the system is designed such that only the best of the best get in. So congratulations to you on making it.
There is no making it other than its a fairer system - but there was more than just the greener pastures involved and included powerful men threatening our family because we dared to question them for their excesses.
Ill leave it at that
 
. . . .
Oh that makes you so special that you can throw unwarranted insults around. Shows your pedigree, upbringing and discipline.
I throw insults to dudes who deserve em. it seems you do.
 
.
Two with the current engine. Four with dual racks maybe, but that will depend on how it effects it’s flight performance.



I simply doubt China downgrades it’s export variants that much in general, it makes little technical and economic sense, especially for things being sold to such few countries. But your points are still valid. Pakistan has, and does, get special access to Chinese stocks of weaponry when and if needed, this benefits China just as much, because the target is india.


Wikipedia is the worst source for military information.
145km may only be data under certain conditions. According to a paper by the China Missile Research Institute, the range of a certain active air-to-air missile varies from 145km to 182km according to the adjustment of the pulse interval of the dual-pulse rocket engine. Personally think that this refers to pl-15. But whether the foreign trade version of pl-15e has the ability to adjust the pulse interval cannot be determined.
pl15.jpg
 
.
145km may only be data under certain conditions. According to a paper by the China Missile Research Institute, the range of a certain active air-to-air missile varies from 145km to 182km according to the adjustment of the pulse interval of the dual-pulse rocket engine. Personally think that this refers to pl-15. But whether the foreign trade version of pl-15e has the ability to adjust the pulse interval cannot be determined.
View attachment 868453
That’s what I said too, albeit for different reasons. Missiles cannot just “vary their range” so simply like that. It makes sense that the range would change on the Pulse motor intervals, but even then it will mostly be based on the situation at launch. The range of a missile at launch depends over over a dozen environmental and launch factors. 145Km is probably the PL15Es range under the pre-decided launch conditions China uses to test the missile, which is different for different countries, so If say France would have made the same missile, they might quote a different range for the exact same missile due to different testing practices.

And again, I doubt they made any major changes from PL15 to PL15E because of the cost involved in such an endeavor, especially when you’re selling them to so few customers. If that is also the range for the PL15 (145-182) then I wouldn’t be surprised. It can probably go even 200 under some closer to ideal conditions, in others it might not even reach 100KM. But making absurd claims like “PL15 has 100KM more range than PL15E” that some other members were claiming is what I just don’t think is realistic.
 
.
That’s what I said too, albeit for different reasons. Missiles cannot just “vary their range” so simply like that. It makes sense that the range would change on the Pulse motor intervals, but even then it will mostly be based on the situation at launch. The range of a missile at launch depends over over a dozen environmental and launch factors. 145Km is probably the PL15Es range under the pre-decided launch conditions China uses to test the missile, which is different for different countries, so If say France would have made the same missile, they might quote a different range for the exact same missile due to different testing practices.

And again, I doubt they made any major changes from PL15 to PL15E because of the cost involved in such an endeavor, especially when you’re selling them to so few customers. If that is also the range for the PL15 (145-182) then I wouldn’t be surprised. It can probably go even 200 under some closer to ideal conditions, in others it might not even reach 100KM. But making absurd claims like “PL15 has 100KM more range than PL15E” that some other members were claiming is what I just don’t think is realistic.
That may be possible if you have a modular motor section to switch it out - but that seems like a tall order. Pakistan already clandestinely received some PL-15 straight from China stock so it doesn’t make sense to have a E with lesser range bought publicly
 
.
That’s what I said too, albeit for different reasons. Missiles cannot just “vary their range” so simply like that.
True of chemical fueled rocket motors with the notable exception of the meteor. Solid motors cannot throttle, the chemicals once ignited deliver uniform thrust until the chemical fuel is fully combusted. Unlike the AMRAAM or PL15,the solid propellant in the meteor is oxygen deficient, oxygen for the chemical reaction is delivered via the air intake. This oxygen deficient fuel allows the missile to carry more propellant and throttle is controlled by the amount of oxygen delivered to the combustion chamber. The disadvantage of this design choice is the need to maintain air flow into the intake limits AoA and thus maneuverability. The advantage is greater end game energy and increased range, depending on launch conditions and throttle setting the meteor will go much further than its advertised range.
 
.
True of chemical fueled rocket motors with the notable exception of the meteor. Solid motors cannot throttle, the chemicals once ignited deliver uniform thrust until the chemical fuel is fully combusted. Unlike the AMRAAM or PL15,the solid propellant in the meteor is oxygen deficient, oxygen for the chemical reaction is delivered via the air intake. This oxygen deficient fuel allows the missile to carry more propellant and throttle is controlled by the amount of oxygen delivered to the combustion chamber. The disadvantage of this design choice is the need to maintain air flow into the intake limits AoA and thus maneuverability. The advantage is greater end game energy and increased range, depending on launch conditions and throttle setting the meteor will go much further than its advertised range.
Also the reason why it wasn’t pursued by the USAF

Also


You first need to detect him, identify him, acquire him, launch, maintain acquirement and communicate mid-course updates to the missile, and achieve terminal guidance.
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom