How China is driving the shift to electric vehicles , Germany is losing the EV race

[tower9]

We're talking about EVs. Chinese cars are not performing worse than German EVs.

It’s the other way around. Chinese EVs are far superior to German EVs which rely on Chinese tech and supply chains anyways.

His comment just sounds like the typical sour grape China hater retort desperately trying to keep China “in its place”. If Vietnamese EVs were half as good as Chinese ones he would be bragging about it.

 

[Viet]

No they aren’t. Test drove a Benz EV, was literally a fucking joke. Tackiest and most overvalued car ever. Volvos and Teslas were infinitely better.

Went to a Polestar (owned by Geely) dealership and was impressed by their models.

Germany is really falling behind.

That’s biased.
Mercedes is the non plus ultra in quality among German carmakers.
They will never build low stuffs. That’s suicide.

 

[tower9]

That’s biased.
Mercedes is the non plus ultra in quality among German carmakers.
They will never build low stuffs. That’s suicide.

You apparently have never test drove their EVs. To be honest though I was shocked at how cheap and low quality their cars were.

 

[OIO]

It was unimaginable two years ago. For a long time, China's automobile industry, like Chinese football, has been considered a model of failure.

 

[etylo]

wrong
german cars are superior to chinese cars.

Not EV, lol, you are a good joker.

 

[beijingwalker]

VW lose billions in Q3 after EV sales slump and margins contract

 

[etylo]

I would trust german engineering over chinese engineering for EV cars with my hard earned cash of now ...

You can hold on to your hard old belief.

 

[Bilal9]

chinese EVs are not cheap. NIO has showrooms here in Germany. the model et5 asks for 60,000-70,000 euros. that is ways to much. why should I buy chinese EVs if BMW i5 asks 70,000 euros as starting price?

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Price in German market is dependent on tariffs and customs duties. Sometimes German Government does this to encourage sale of local products, they are in a desperate situation.

Such is not the case in Asian countries. I see Chinese EVs in Bangladesh all the time, they are very attractively priced, even with high tariffs.

Let’s wait. The US taxes chinese EVs higher.
A matter of months the EU will tax the same rate.

You can't hold back the inevitable buddy.

If most EV parts are made in China and they control the technology and innovation, it is only a matter of time until Chinese EVs overtake the market globally.

Ultimately - whomever controls the production base - controls the tech and industry. Just like how the Japanese controlled the fossil fuel vehicle market, producing the parts-to-be-assembled and the end-results.

But it was a good thing. This EV tech should be in Chinese hands - they are the best qualified with disciplined, educated, efficient and motivated workforce, a practical business minded govt. and willing entrepreneurs.

The Chinese will ultimately use other production bases around Asia for lower level value addition (shoes, clothes and toys) - but production of EV's will take long to move out of China, there are plenty of educated Chinese citizens willing to work for a living in this higher value addition game.

 

[Bilal9]

You can hold on to your hard old belief.

The old EU manufacturers used to use Bull$hit terms like "Engineering Pedigree", "Tradition", "Luxury Tuning" and "Fahrvergnugen" to sell cars. Those BS don't sell cars anymore.

Ultimately - whoever engineers the best-engineered product wins - and guess what, they are all in China now. Producing cars is a science. There is no damned intangible. You can tune suspension dynamics with "Finite Element Analysis" - available some thirty years ago.

Even US-assembled Ford/GM/Chrysler fossil-fuel and EV cars source all their parts from China. Best Engineering and Best Value.

I used to see Jaguar cars being sold on these BS "Tradition" and "Pedigree" principles. Pieces of garbage, ask anyone who used to own one. Terrible electrical issues - so hard to fix. As if just tacking on pieces of Burl wood and leather will convince someone to buy a car.

Now look where Jaguar is, sold to an Indian company of all things. Where did the "Pedigree" go??

Jaguar dealers being told not to tout the Indian connection, no one will buy Jaguar cars if they find out.

 

[etylo]

The old EU manufacturers used to use Bull$hit terms like "Engineering Pedigree", "Tradition", "Luxury Tuning" and "Fahrvergnugen" to sell cars. Those BS don't sell cars anymore.

Ultimately - whoever engineers the best-engineered product wins - and guess what, they are all in China now. Producing cars is a science. There is no damned intangible. You can tune suspension dynamics with "Finite Element Analysis" - available some thirty years ago.

Even US-assembled Ford/GM/Chrysler fossil-fuel and EV cars source all their parts from China. Best Engineering and Best Value.

I used to see Jaguar cars being sold on these BS "Tradition" and "Pedigree" principles. Pieces of garbage, ask anyone who used to own one. Terrible electrical issues - so hard to fix. As if just tacking on pieces of Burl wood and leather will convince someone to buy a car.

Now look where Jaguar is, sold to an Indian company of all things. Where did the "Pedigree" go??

Jaguar dealers being told not to tout the Indian connection, no one will buy Jaguar cars if they find out.

Exactly, I use to own a German Audi car years ago, but, when it broke down, it was impossible to fix.

 

[Bilal9]

That’s biased.
Mercedes is the non plus ultra in quality among German carmakers.
They will never build low stuffs. That’s suicide.

They committed suicide a long time ago.

The last properly admirable MBZ was the 280E yours truly had as a used family vehicle and grew up in. Built like a tank and felt like that on the road, unbelievably supportive seats too, not cushy like a sofa. For MBZ, the slide for flimsy and cheap started in the late eighties past that. Thin Sheetmetal that folded like tinfoil.

Nowadays the Gelandwagen is still somewhat of a quality vehicle, but the lower priced lines (E and C class etc.) are just badge-engineered also-rans. Something to give plebes some solace that they have an MBZ product to show off. Tinny, flimsy vehicles. I'm sorry, electronics and connected-car doesn't impress me. A car is for driving - not an arcade game.

You can get better-engineered cars from any of the Japanese or Chinese luxury marques.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Interesting

She said there is not one public charging station in her village.

Again this is a drawback of living in a multi-family unit...she is at the mercy of her building management to supply an electrical access to her car which is holding back EV sales.

 

[Bilal9]

Exactly, I use to own a German Audi car years ago, but, when it broke down, it was impossible to fix.

Yeah Audis were famous for all sorts of issues, in the 1990's the company almost went bankrupt in the US because of unintended acceleration issues. So much for "engineering pedigree".

Audi 100 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You apparently have never test drove their EVs. To be honest though I was shocked at how cheap and low quality their cars were.

Yeah you'll have to shoot me to buy an MBZ or Audi now.

No one is impressed by those Euro luxury badges anymore (especially for EVs) and the value you get for the money - is almost half of what you get from competitors.

EU luxury models are in their Swan Song now. A few more years and they will all be history.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Yeah Audis were famous for all sorts of issues, in the 1990's the company almost went bankrupt in the US because of unintended acceleration

That was mostly blamed on driver error mixed with Audi's placement of the pedals.
People would accidentally press down on the accelerator pedal before switching it out of Park causing the car to suddenly lurch forward.

Because of that a new law was passed that says inorder to shift out of Park your foot has to be firmly down on the brake. Every car sold to this day in the US still has to adhere to it.

 

[SaadH]

chinese EVs are not cheap. NIO has showrooms here in Germany. the model et5 asks for 60,000-70,000 euros. that is ways to much. why should I buy chinese EVs if BMW i5 asks 70,000 euros as starting price?

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That German is going to break down after 75K miles.