How China Began World War III in the South China Sea

[Suika]

The idea was part of a proposal in 1932...

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/WorldWar2/manchuria.htm

Essentially, it was...

- cessation of all acts of violence on both sides;

- no further preparation for hostilities; (rejected by JPN)

- withdrawal of both Chinese and Japanese combatants in the Shanghai area;

- protection of the International Settlement at Shanghai by the establishment of neutral ones;

- prompt negotiations to settle all outstanding controversies between Japan and China with the aid of neutral observers or participants. (rejected by JPN)

China accepted all five points. JPN rejected 2 and 5. If Point 5 was accepted, the US was willing to reconsider China's administrative position regarding Manchuria. The intention was pretty much tit-for-tat, JPN to stop expansion plans on mainland China in return for Manchuria as JPNese controlled territory.

1932 is a long way back... In the negotiations of 1941, the US was not willing to avoid war, even if Japan canceled its alliance with Germany and left Indochina and parts of China.

Going to 1932 requires a much broader outlook.

On point 5, would China (Chiang Kai-chek) agree with Japan keeping Manchuria? Seems like a contradiction thus a meaningless point that makes the US appear as righteous.

Of course the invasion of Manchuria was aggression. Japan didn't have to. But is that the whole picture or is it just America victor's narrative that has persisted for so long? Its the latter.

Nine-Power treaty? Guess who's not in there. Without the Soviet Union, it is kind of pointless. The Comintern was established in 1919 and had a grand vision to spread communism all over the world. And it started to spread in China in the early 1920s. Chinese Communists and the KMT would split in 1927 but the communists remained alive and KMT was unable to finish them off. Why should Japan just set back and do nothing with civil war going on in China that included the risk of the whole country turning communist? Well gee, it actually happened in our historical timeline... resulting in Korean War and Vietnam War, and China and Russia are still buddies today.

Kellogg-Briand Pact in 1928? What about the attack on Manchuria in 1929? Wasn't Japan. Was the Soviet Union.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_conflict_(1929)
What if it would happen again and larger later? Japan once had Vladivostok in its hands during the intervention of the Soviet Union in 1922 but were pressured to give it up. Yeah today, Russia borders DPRK because of Vladivostok. Its like all these treaties were design to keep Japan weak and at a never ending security confrontation. Should Japan make gains for itself, then it would be able to rid itself of the never ending security threat. Japan had the strength to do it itself, but always pressured to not exceed a certain amount. Although some westerners did recognize that Japan in Manchuria meant it was safe from turning communists. Clearly FDR didn't care for that and was soft for the Soviet Union, even if lead by a man like Stalin who was easily worse than anything Imperial japan did.

So then of course there were the naval treaties that were also designed to keep Japan limited. Everyone knew at the time of the making of the naval treaties that the US had greater production and resources. Why should they get a larger naval fleet? The numbers in the treaty meant that Japan would never have the ship tonnage to go on the offensive vs the US but the numbers still meant the US could go on the offensive vs Japan. No wonder some Japanese took a "militant nationalist" stance and were against what was agreed. Nevermind the whole time, the US was breaking Japanese diplomatic codes.

If the US wanted to hold such a high and mighty position of righteousness, they should have left the Philippines. Or not even that, they could have beat Spain up and just not bother with colonizing the Philippines at all.

The US knocked out "evil Japan" and what was the result. Communism spread all over the place. DPRK, CCP, Vietnam, all proxies for the SU. Japan never wanted to have a war with the US. Japan never wanted to attack and occupy Hawaii, Alaska, or California. But instead, the US went all the way and went for total unconditional surrender. Imperial Japan was better in human rights, democracy, and free speech then the monstrosities that came in the wake of the demise of Imperial Japan (DPRK, CCP, the SU). So take that victors narrative induced ignorant based high and mighty justice feeling and flush it.


It is all old history now. Japan played its hand at that time. Played well or played poorly, others can be the judge. It may still have been a mistake for Japan to have gone into Manchuria but more of a strategic mistake. Not as some sort of vile "aggressive" act during a time when other countries had their big empires. But now Japan has to stick with the US-Japan alliance. But if the US had a care to not rock the boat with the alliance, quit the high and mighty BS.

 

[gambit]

On point 5, would China (Chiang Kai-chek) agree with Japan keeping Manchuria? Seems like a contradiction thus a meaningless point that makes the US appear as righteous.

China -- regardless of leadership -- would have never agreed to any land loss to JPN. The immediate concern was to halt hostilities. Of course, JPN knew that China would never rest until Manchuria is returned to China, by force if necessary, and that force might even include the US, so once JPN was fixed on expansionism, there can be no treaty that could stop that plan. This is not about appearing 'righteous'.

It is all old history now.

But it is instructive. China's insistence on the SCS being Chinese territorial water is -- in principle -- no different than JPN's claim on Manchuria. Just as JPN took Asia to war, China will do the same. There will be no WW III, but there will be a second Asia war where every country will have a stake. Just as back then, no one will be exempted today. If JPN concede her part in defending the freedom of the SCS, JPN will be a de facto Chinese vassal state for at least one generation.

 

[Suika]

China -- regardless of leadership -- would have never agreed to any land loss to JPN. The immediate concern was to halt hostilities. Of course, JPN knew that China would never rest until Manchuria is returned to China, by force if necessary, and that force might even include the US, so once JPN was fixed on expansionism, there can be no treaty that could stop that plan. This is not about appearing 'righteous'.


But it is instructive. China's insistence on the SCS being Chinese territorial water is -- in principle -- no different than JPN's claim on Manchuria. Just as JPN took Asia to war, China will do the same. There will be no WW III, but there will be a second Asia war where every country will have a stake. Just as back then, no one will be exempted today. If JPN concede her part in defending the freedom of the SCS, JPN will be a de facto Chinese vassal state for at least one generation.

You ignored the SU and you ignored the spralwing of communism that came out after the defeat of Japan. Communism was even spreading in Japan itself which was why the US decided to go softer with hangings and get back some of the Imperial Japanese to stop the spread of communism inside Japan. The US also backed the return of Korean "Japan collaborators" into South Korea to keep the whole peninsula from going communism again too.

The SCS is not the same in principle as was Manchuria. Other parties regarding the SCS are nothing in comparison to the capacity of the SU (the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, Brunei, Taiwan). Among other different circumstances.

Japan brought war on Asia? You also now ignore points about the negotiations in 1941. And the only free country in Asia besides Japan and China was Siam. All the others were colonies. War was brought upon the colonial masters. And was driven more so by the US, not Japan. The US was using time and resources as leverage for geopolitical circumstances where Japan made no threat whatsoever to the US homeland.

If JPN concede her part in defending the freedom of the SCS, JPN will be a de facto Chinese vassal state for at least one generation.
​

Japan isn't going to concede that, with or without the US.

 

[Viet]

Bao Dai, the last Vietnam emperor in Japanese military dress. Vietnam policy was in parts friendly towards Japan hegemony over Asia as a means to oust the French out of Indochina.

 

[Menthol]

Nuclear war is evitable.

It's already spoken in many prophecies.

And many times, the timeline indicate it's supposed to be now or in the very near future.

I think the war will come in surprise.

If people think it's going to be happened, the government will build bunkers as much as possible now.

 

[oprih]

Great thread, @Get Ya Wig Split @UKBengali @Viet and the other lapdogs are basically punching bags in this thread. Good to see that!

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

@gambit being part Indian should show some gratitude to China.
View attachment 547929
.

I told u , he's Indian, not Vietnamese.

No Vietnamese would rant about white, white, white all day long. If anything, they hate them.

His posting style already gave his background away by subtlety exposing his inner inferiority for all things white(which he keeps defensively redirecting onto the Chinese)- typical of Indians.

This is why French is no longer spoken in Vietnam today, they can't wait to shed any links they might have with France. They being Sinostic, dislikes the West just like the Chinese do.

Now compare India, a MAJOR constituent of the Commonwealth. They claim to hate the British, yet like the hypocrites they are, adopt English as a national language(without it, they fall apart), parliamentary system and many other British way of life.

What a grand inheritance.

Hahahahaha.

 

[Viva_Viet]

I told u , he's Indian, not Vietnamese.

No Vietnamese would rant about white, white, white all day long. If anything, they hate them.

His posting style already gave his background away by subtlety exposing his inner inferiority for all things white(which he keeps defensively redirecting onto the Chinese)- typical of Indians.

This is why French is no longer spoken in Vietnam today, they can't wait to shed any links they might have with France. They being Sinostic, dislikes the West just like the Chinese do.

Now compare India, a MAJOR constituent of the Commonwealth. They claim to hate the British, yet like the hypocrites they are, adopt English as a national language(without it, they fall apart), parliamentary system and many other British way of life.

What a grand inheritance.

Hahahahaha.

We dislike No one now, we control 60-65% SCS( east VN sea) while another ones ( CN-PH-Malay etc ) only get 10-12%for each bcs your armies r stupid,suck. We simply dont wanna waste time to hate stupid peasants/ barbarians.

When VN cover our 60-65% control wt sea mines, then the coconomy of all of u guys, plus JP,Sk, Guam will collapse

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

I told u , he's Indian, not Vietnamese.

No Vietnamese would rant about white, white, white all day long. If anything, they hate them.

His posting style already gave his background away by subtlety exposing his inner inferiority for all things white(which he keeps defensively redirecting onto the Chinese)- typical of Indians.

This is why French is no longer spoken in Vietnam today, they can't wait to shed any links they might have with France. They being Sinostic, dislikes the West just like the Chinese do.

Now compare India, a MAJOR constituent of the Commonwealth. They claim to hate the British, yet like the hypocrites they are, adopt English as a national language(without it, they fall apart), parliamentary system and many other British way of life.

What a grand inheritance.

Hahahahaha.

We dislike No one now, we control 60-65% SCS( east VN sea) while another ones ( CN-PH-Malay etc ) only get 10-12%for each bcs your armies r stupid,suck. We simply dont wanna waste time to hate stupid peasants/ barbarians.

When VN cover our 60-65% control wt sea mines, then the coconomy of all of u guys, plus JP,Sk, Guam will collapse

Strawman.

I was referring to Vietnamese and white people(unless u disagree with me and is gonna claim that Vietnamese love being under french rule)

Nothing else. I didn't talk about the South China sea- you did.

 

[Viva_Viet]

Strawman.

I was referring to Vietnamese and white people(unless u disagree with me and is gonna claim that Vietnamese love being under french rule)

Nothing else. I didn't talk about the South China sea- you did.

We hate No one, dude. Just wanna live in peace.

VN is superior than anyone in SCS( east VN sea), we may hate someone if they can take a bigger control than VN.

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

We hate No one, dude. Just wanna live in peace.

VN is superior than anyone in SCS( east VN sea), we may hate someone if they can take a bigger control than VN.

u kept talking about the sca- now tell me, what r u gonna do about it now that someone has a bigger control of the scs?

i only wanna know what are you gonna do about it?

 

[sinait]

We hate No one, dude. Just wanna live in peace.

VN is superior than anyone in SCS( east VN sea), we may hate someone if they can take a bigger control than VN.

You have to decide whether you are SUPERIOR or play VICTIM and go CRYBABY about massacre by the Chinese.

http://vietnamrightnow.com/2017/07/sailors-killed-in-spratly-massacre-honoured/
Sailors killed in Spratly massacre honoured

Or did SUPERIOR Vietnam lose its BALLS and DARE NOT take back your islands from the Chinese.
Either that or you knew Vietnam did steal those islands from China.

Use your brain, if Vietnam own those islands, why is it South East Asia and especially the Philippines have so much Chinese settlers centuries ago instead of Vietnamese.
Even their fame freedom hero Jose Rizal is a Chinese.
STEALING is NOT Superior.
The rightful owner will come and SPANK YOU again.
.

 

[Viva_Viet]

u kept talking about the sca- now tell me, what r u gonna do about it now that someone has a bigger control of the scs?

i only wanna know what are you gonna do about it?

We will cover SCS( east VN sea) wt sea mines and the White in Guam plus Jap,SK,CN economy will collapse first.

 

[Viva_Viet]

You have to decide whether you are SUPERIOR or play VICTIM and go CRYBABY about massacre by the Chinese.

http://vietnamrightnow.com/2017/07/sailors-killed-in-spratly-massacre-honoured/
Sailors killed in Spratly massacre honoured

Or did SUPERIOR Vietnam lose its BALLS and DARE NOT take back your islands from the Chinese.
Either that or you knew Vietnam did steal those islands from China.

Use your brain, if Vietnam own those islands, why is it South East Asia and especially the Philippines have so much Chinese settlers centuries ago instead of Vietnamese.
Even their fame freedom hero Jose Rizal is a Chinese.
STEALING is NOT Superior.
The rightful owner will come and SPANK YOU again.
.

Wow, VN spank CN so hard in 2014, thousand Cnese got beaten, then we were u ?? Why didnt come and save those poor Cnese in 2014 conflict??

Without daddy Jap-US in 1979, 1.4 billions Cnese including Xi r just barking dogs seldom bite