How can Pakistan Navy defend itself from Brahmos cruse missile ?

[amardeep mishra]

Bro, that's the only way you can stop a missile from crossing its limit.

And the warhead explodes automatically upon reaching 290Km. You can only write this in the guidance, it is impossible anywhere else. The same trigger can also be used to detonate the warhead in case it veers off course.

Are you saying there is a mechanical construct in the engine itself? That's impossible for two reasons. One, it increases the cost and complexity of the engine which is entirely unnecessary. Two, the engine has no clue how far it has traveled, it cannot trigger the warhead either. The engine doesn't shut itself down upon reaching the distance. Even if it was done this way, the guidance decides the range.

Pillai himself said the Brahmos's range can have its limiter removed unilaterally by the forces "after deployment" because nobody is going to come check it, which makes it obvious the restriction is software controlled. After Pillai's statement, the Russians asked us specifically not to increase the Brahmos's range. All for public discourse.

Dude, I work with these things and secondly I've got my friends in brahmos.I'm a control engineer myself.

 

[GuardianRED]

Dude, I work with these things and secondly I've got my friends in brahmos.I'm a control engineer myself.

I would make a guess that it will be both ie software and hardware defined

Software being targeting /guidance/ trajectory etc (depends on the target)
Hardware being proximity fuse safety locks etc

 

[randomradio]

Dude, I work with these things and secondly I've got my friends in brahmos.I'm a control engineer myself.

I don't care about that. The fact is the warhead has to explode. You can't have it simply falling off after it reaches 290Km. The same way you can't have the missile continue flying if it veers off course. That's not how these things work.

The absolute best they can do is restrict filling all the fuel tanks, that's about it. But the warhead will explode, that's guaranteed. We can agree to disagree.

Anyway this is what Pillai has said.
https://defence.pk/threads/brahmos-...mtcr-range-can-be-extended-beyond-300.234105/

So the whole design was adopted for 300 kilometres, but it does not stop you to do a flight of your own, when it is deployed to go for more range.

 

[amardeep mishra]

I don't care about that. The fact is the warhead has to explode. You can't have it simply falling off after it reaches 290Km. The same way you can't have the missile continue flying if it veers off course. That's not how these things work.

@randomradio
Care to tell me your experience with these things?I mean what exactly is your experience with guidance and control?The matter of fact is,there exists a cut off mechanism in liquid ramjet engine of brahmos that gets triggered when it reaches 300kms.Now you would ask how would engine know that it has covered 300kms downrange?Well the answer is pretty simple- it doesnt,the downrange information can be extracted from the GPS.y p
I would like to highlight that the way points in brahmos triggers the vertical profile
Secondly,why on earth will the missile continue flying off course?Thats precisely the job of GNC(guidance navigation and control) to keep it on track. Kindly read about "proportional control",where the lateral acceleration of the missile is slaved to the rate of change of line of sight angle.
PS- I am still waiting to know your qualifications and your experience with GNC!

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

An antiship LACM conversion with a longer range is the best way to keep the enemy bogged down in the distance.

With Sub launched of PK Babur in AshCM role... Pak will essentially neutralise any of enemy advantage.

Combined with air launched CX from JF...your country's waters are pretty secured.

Enemy's nummerical advantages or their CMs will become just numbers on paper without translating into effective strength or threat you PK.

One suspects that work on these front to be in full swing. Pak defence forces are quite desciplined on keeping secrecy. A wise practice.

PNS is working on multi level strategy, hence, making this brahmos essentially paper tiger.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

To stop Brahmos, you need a 360 deg IRST scanner and SHORAD such as LMM / Star Streak.

 

[Arsalan]

To stop Brahmos, you need a 360 deg IRST scanner and SHORAD such as LMM / Star Streak.

IRST?
You are rating that above the more conventional radars, AESA, for this kind of threat?

 

[Alphacharlie]

Every thing can be Shot. The issue is not about shooting BRAHMOS boys!!

Issue is the momentum it generated after being shot at 2.3-3 Mach in Dive....
Imagine the Kinetic Energy developed----

Splinters from this "Tin Can" ---Will also cause HAVOC -----
Think what should you do to save from Splinters---

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

IRST?
You are rating that above the more conventional radars, AESA, for this kind of threat?

AESA or PESA, they would be useless at this speed, for search radar the terminal speed is too fast track radar cannot track at this speed with the exception of a few Russian CW systems.

Remember that these systems were designed specifically to defeat western radar terminal defense and CLOS SHORAD.

Radar will not track it at terminal speed, you need infra red search and track as it crosses the LoS horizon, and engage with supersonic kinetic darts solution, CLOS preferred. The only thing that matches is StarStreak, and LMM on headon eng.

Every thing can be Shot. The issue is not about shooting BRAHMOS boys!!

Issue is the momentum it generated after being shot at 2.3-3 Mach in Dive....
Imagine the Kinetic Energy developed----

Splinters from this "Tin Can" ---Will also cause HAVOC -----
Think what should you do to save from Splinters---

At this speed its a straight bee line system, very easy to track and predict, and one touch would defilgrate the system, and it can be safely interdicted at 8-10 km. It is a conventional system.

 

[SQ8]

Radar will not track it at terminal speed, you need infra red search and track as it crosses the LoS horizon, and engage with supersonic kinetic darts solution, CLOS preferred. The only thing that matches is StarStreak, and LMM on headon eng.



At this speed its a straight bee line system, very easy to track and predict, and one touch would defilgrate the system, and it can be safely interdicted at 8-10 km. It is a conventional system.

Also the reason we are not that impressed with the CM-400AKG but sadly the idea has its proponents.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Also the reason we are not that impressed with the CM-400AKG but sadly the idea has its proponents.

These are fear weapons, from saturation doctrines, where we were trained on precision doctrines.

 

[SQ8]

These are fear weapons, from saturation doctrines, where we were trained on precision doctrines.

well, the idea of saturation doctrines also applies to subsonic weaponry as it is more difficult for a ship to engage 10 subsonic targets than 3 supersonic ones. Not to mention that the targeting platform is much safer in the subsonic scenario as longer range seekers can tolerate those distances when compared to the IR ones and the need for CLOS in most subsonic missiles. Lest one try to explain to fanboys on both sides that firing a missile at a ship isnt as simple as that for an aircraft and definitely more difficult when the scenario is ship to ship targeting.

Even with advanced computers , creating a targeting solution is not easy.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Lest one try to explain to fanboys on both sides that firing a missile at a ship isnt as simple as that for an aircraft and definitely more difficult when the scenario is ship to ship targeting.

I am looking forward for your lines on target acquisition and engaging them in ocean,kindly tag me.

These are fear weapons, from saturation doctrines, where we were trained on precision doctrines.

But sir saturation doctrine is shooting on own foot in an open ocean,what if tarrget survives,saturation fire is best suited for land warfare using it in air and sea is suicidal.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

I am looking forward for your lines on target acquisition and engaging them in ocean,kindly tag me.


But sir saturation doctrine is shooting on own foot in an open ocean,what if tarrget survives,saturation fire is best suited for land warfare using it in air and sea is suicidal.

Brahmos would most likely be employed by Su for land attack on pakistani establishment from sea. The surface targets would be a waste of the Brahmos CM.

 

[.]

In my opinion PN should simply Increase its numbers of submarines.
Anti-Missile tech is being readily advanced and some Chinese solutions are already present So no big deal.