Holland to ban burqa in public

[Neo]

Holland to ban burqa in public

AMSTERDAM: The Dutch government agreed on Friday a total ban on the wearing of burqas and other Muslim face veils in public, justifying the move on security grounds.

Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk will now draw up legislation, which will result in the Netherlands, once one of Europe’s most easy-going nations, imposing some of the continent’s toughest laws against concealing the face.

“The cabinet finds it undesirable that garments covering the face – including the burqa – should be worn in public in view of public order, and the security and protection of fellow citizens,” said the Dutch Justice Ministry in a statement. The debate on face veils and whether they stymie Muslim integration has gathered momentum across Europe. The Netherlands would be the first European state to impose a countrywide ban on Islamic face coverings, although other countries have already outlawed them in specific places.

The move by the centre-right government comes just five days before general elections. The campaign has focused so far on issues like the economy rather than immigration. Last December, Dutch lawmakers voted in favour of a proposal by far-right politician Geert Wilders to outlaw face-coverings, and asked Verdonk to examine the feasibility of such a ban.

Because veils were worn for religious reasons, she had feared new legislation could come into conflict with religious freedom laws, but she said on Friday this was not the case.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\11\18\story_18-11-2006_pg7_7

 

[Neo]

Dutch Muslims condemn burqa ban

Dutch Muslims have criticised a government proposal to ban women from wearing the burqa or veils which cover the face in public places.
Dutch Muslim groups say a ban would make the country's one million Muslims feel victimised and alienated.

The Dutch cabinet said burqas - a full body covering that also obscures the face - disturb public order and safety.

The decision comes days ahead of elections which the ruling centre-right coalition is expected to win.

The proposed ban would apply to wearing the burqa in the street, and in trains, schools, buses and law courts in the Netherlands.

Other forms of face coverings, such as veils, and crash helmets with visors that obscure the face, would also be covered by a ban.

Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk, who is known for her tough policies, said it was important that all people in the Netherlands were able to see and identify each other clearly to promote integration and tolerance.

Last year a majority of MPs in the Dutch parliament said they were in favour of a ban.

An estimated 6% of 16 million people living in the Netherlands are Muslims.

But there are thought to be fewer than 100 women who choose to wear the burqa, a traditional Islamic form of dress.

Civil rights debate

The latest move came after an expert committee judged that it would not contravene Dutch law.

[It is] undesirable that face-covering clothing is worn in public places for reasons of public order, security and protection of citizens

Rita Verdonk

Ms Verdonk insisted the burqa was not an acceptable part of public life in the Netherlands.

"The Cabinet finds it undesirable that face-covering clothing - including the burqa - is worn in public places for reasons of public order, security and protection of citizens," she said.

The minister told the BBC that social interaction would be easier if faces were not covered.

"It is very important that we can see each other and can communicate with each other. Because we are so tolerant we want to respect each other."

Critics of the proposed ban say it would violate civil rights.

The main Muslim organisation in the Netherlands, CMO, said the plan was an "over-reaction to a very marginal problem", the Associated Press reported.

Naima Azough, an MP with the opposition Green party who is also Muslim, said the ban was not in keeping with the country's history of tolerance and said the Dutch government was playing on people's fears of Islamic extremism to win votes.

"It has to do with radicalisation, it has to do with fears and the absolute reality of radicalisation amongst Muslim youngsters.

"The problem is only that you can't say that every person wearing a niqab or hijab or burqa - whatever you call it - is a radical," she said.

The Mayor of Amsterdam, Job Cohen, said he opposed the wearing of burqas in public and said women wearing one who failed to get a job should not expect welfare benefits.

"From the perspective of integration and communication, it is obviously very bad because you can't see each other so the fewer the better.

"But actually hardly anybody wears one... The fuss is much bigger than the number of people concerned," he said.

Tension

The issue of the type of clothing worn by Muslim women has become a hotly-debated subject in a range of European countries.

France has passed a law banning religious symbols, including Muslim headscarves, from schools.

Some German states ban teachers in public schools from wearing headscarves, but there is no blanket rule against burqas.

Italy has banned face-coverings, resurrecting old laws passed to combat domestic terrorism, while citing new security fears.

The issue of Muslim women's dress also surfaced in the UK, when former Foreign Secretary Jack Straw sparked controversy when he said he felt uncomfortable talking to someone whose face he could not see.

The Dutch relationship with its Muslim community has been under scrutiny since the murder of film-maker Theo van Gogh by Islamic extremists in November 2004.

Earlier this year Ms Verdonk clashed with a minority party in the governing coalition over her handling of the citizenship case of Somali-born Dutch MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

The MP scripted a controversial film about the treatment of women in Islamic society, directed by van Gogh before he was killed.

But she admitted lying on her 1992 application for Dutch citizenship, and Ms Verdonk initially called for the MP to be deported.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6160620.stm

 

[Cheetah786]

The Qur'an does not instruct women to cover their faces. In fact, during the pilgrimage to the holy city of Mecca, they are required to uncover their faces.

 

[Awesome]

Fine, but a veil and a burkha/burqa are two different things!

The burkha enables women to dress loosely without actually exposing the shape of their bodies. That is the point. I understand banning veils for security purposes but to ask women to wear tighter clothes is just sexual harassment at the state level.

 

[EagleEyes]

Get ready people. The world is alienating Muslims.

One by one, every European nation will go against it without giving a damn.

World War 3 is coming, in which if Muslims remain however they are currently. Naozibillah, they will be crushed.

 

[MIG_ACE]

World War 3 is coming, in which if Muslims remain however they are currently. Naozibillah, they will be crushed.

Quite an imagination. One tiny european country has banned the burqa. Even if all european countries do that i cant see how that will lead to a war. There will be protests surely and some countries with sizeable Muslim populations will be forced to revoke the ban.In others the ban will remain and ppl will learn to live with it.
U must understand why they do it.They dont hate muslims.They just feel that the burqa is a garment forced on muslim women and consider it exploitation or gender inequality.

 

[A.Rahman]

Quite an imagination. One tiny european country has banned the burqa. Even if all european countries do that i cant see how that will lead to a war. There will be protests surely and some countries with sizeable Muslim populations will be forced to revoke the ban.In others the ban will remain and ppl will learn to live with it.
U must understand why they do it.They dont hate muslims.They just feel that the burqa is a garment forced on muslim women and consider it exploitation or gender inequality.

Islam tells to dress modestly. Like wearing a cloak is enough as long as it dosn't shows the "Curves" and "hair"

 

[Awesome]

They've used the excuse of integration into society not even the security issue.

We will still not really become like them and will still promote our own culture. We're like that. They have a sorry notion that we aren't modern people within our own culture. Hijabi women are quite modern as well. Just depends upon the education one has received.

there are just two countries where the burkha is forced (Iran/Saudi). Women do the hijab voluntarily. Quite modern women do so too. Parliamentarians do so.

Muslims will still keep out producing the Euros. What then? That'd be a threat too.

 

[Bull]

i have no issues with what one wears,but definilty wearing a viel should not be encourged.uts sad the decison has to be enforced by the Govt,the muslims should have realised this and reformed themselves much before.

 

[Spring Onion]

why ban veil ? if we say that their naked flesh offend us and it provok one to abuse others will they have a law to order them to cover themselves.??

 

[Spring Onion]

As far as Burka its just a dress no one should have any objection whatever one wants to wear. no one force me to wear a veil here in consrvative society like NWFP but wherever i see that people are staring at me and im feeling uncomfortable i try to have veil. Its simple.

 

[Muradk]

Some times I feel that they know that such things will tick us off and than they sit back and enjoy. Our anger encourages them more to *******us.

 

[Bull]

why ban veil ? if we say that their naked flesh offend us and it provok one to abuse others will they have a law to order them to cover themselves.??

Have you tried? If you have tried atleast once then this argument stands.

I dont supporting those naked blondes anyways?

 

[niaz]

They've used the excuse of integration into society not even the security issue.

We will still not really become like them and will still promote our own culture. We're like that. They have a sorry notion that we aren't modern people within our own culture. Hijabi women are quite modern as well. Just depends upon the education one has received.

there are just two countries where the burkha is forced (Iran/Saudi). Women do the hijab voluntarily. Quite modern women do so too. Parliamentarians do so.

Muslims will still keep out producing the Euros. What then? That'd be a threat too.

I have occasion to visit Iran quite often. Iran has not forced Burqa, only a loose 'Abayia' type dress that should hide the curves and wearing of 'Roo sari' (same as Hijab). Even simple 'Chador' is OK.

On the lifts of the National Iranian Oil Company building, there are notices as to what kind of dress women working for NIOC can wear. Basically either two or one piece and only 4 colours are allowed; Coffee, Black, Brown and Grey. This doenot apply to private enterprises, but it shows that government wants to dictate even the kind of colour women can wear in public.

In Saudi Arabia, women arent even allowed to drive. In most Arab countries, foreigners, specially people from the sub continent (Dubai is an exception) are discriminated against. Not a whimper from anyone, why make such a fuss about Holland. In any free democracy, it is the elected assembly that makes the laws. If France or Holland assembly passes such a law, so be it. That is the will of the majority.

Let us face the fact, the world is becoming more and more anti Islamic;
actions of the Islamic extremists have something to do with it. Rightly or wrongly, many people in Europe associate bearded youth and women wearing Burqa/Hijab with Isalmic extremism.

Any one who has visited Holland or lived there, will know that Holland is one of the most tolerant countries in Europe. They simply dont care about religion. Even the same sex marriages are OK and there are clubs specially meant for sex. They didnot make these laws to annoy muslims, it is against Christian faith as well.

On the other hand, I have visited Saudi Arabia once for ' Umra' and have gone to Iran many times, I find these two countries far more intolerant in every which way. In any democracy, laws will be made which are against the wishes and discriminatory to some people, but those who wish to continue living there have to put with the same. Else they have always the choice of moving away. No different than the puritans who went to America from England because they abhored the lax morality of Charlse -II England. I know of families who moved back to Pakistan from UK because of the same reason.

I dont see the point of this debate, how can we influence laws made by other countries? What do we gain by saying 'How bad Holland or France is'. This is just whining. Only way to counter the West is to educate ourselves to become better. In our neighbourhood; India is the only country for whoes IT personnel, Germany was forced to agree to pay the same as to a German else India would not send them. Germany agreed to take 30,000 Indian IT personnel! Is Pakistan or any other muslim country in such a position?

 

[Thunder]

For iran, they just want modest clothes, but the arabs are a bit too exterme with their "no women can drive" rule. For holland, well yes if the law passes then that's what the majority wants. You can't doanything about it. For muslims living in holland, well very few of them actully wear the burqa, so if the law passes it won't effect them.