history of urdu/Hindi/khariboli

[k s ahmed]

The word itself Ordu was brought by Turks ... to be specific Babur... Zuban-e-Ordu-e-Muala was the camp language... some mixture of Persian, Turkish and Arabic... Ordu Bazar was Camp Market ... that is when Moguls took over they applied this nomenclature to Delhi itself... where it didn't exist before... it is until later that the camp language mixed with existing Muslim discourse and took it's modern shape as Urdu... it is also important to note that Muslim academics were extremely partial against Khariboli and did want to associate themselves with it ... whereas today most people contend Khariboli as a prelude to Urdu itself... enough from me...

Wrong. Urdu existed since 11th century. Mughals bloomed it since it was chosen I've Farsi as official.kangisge.
I created and posted a time line of evolution of Urdu right from the times of indo Aryan migration you should look it up in the search.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Wrong. Urdu existed since 11th century. Mughals bloomed it since it was chosen I've Farsi as official.kangisge.
I created and posted a time line of evolution of Urdu right from the times of indo Aryan migration you should look it up in the search.

We may be talking about same thing... though I'm specifically talking about Urdu as name and prominence. Can you provide a link if possible?

 

[SIPRA]

what is the oldest literature/verse/inscription exhibiting intelligible urdu/hindi/khariboli dialect, there are examples from mir khusro 13-14th century AD but is there any older writing?

There is a sentence, spoken by Khawaja Fariduddin Masud Shakarganj, which, in my opinion, is the oldest recorded sample of "Hindvi". I would give you the sentence and its detailed reference tomorrow.

The sentence, in Hindi or Hindvi language, ascribed to Khawaja Fariduddin Masud Ganjshakar, spoken apparently in 1261 AD, is recorded in the book "Sair ul Auliya". This Persian book, which fundamentally documents the biographies of the early Sufis of Chishti order, was written by Amir Khurd Kirmani, somewhere in 1351-1388 AD, who himself and his whole family was closely associated with Khawaja Nizamuddin Auliya and Amir Khusrow.

The sentence is:

"Madar e Mominan: Punnu ka chaand bhi baala hota hae."

Punnu ka chaand: Full moon
Baala: Underage or child (The word is still used in Punjabi, in the same meaning)

Urdu translation of the part of "Sair ul Auliya", which covers this incidence, is reproduced as below:

 

[SIPRA]

what is the oldest literature/verse/inscription exhibiting intelligible urdu/hindi/khariboli dialect, there are examples from mir khusro 13-14th century AD but is there any older writing?

Mention of language "Hindvi" goes back to eleventh century. I would provide the detailed reference tomorrow.

According to my knowledge, the oldest mention of "Hindvi" language, in specific terms, is in the Persian book "Lubab ul-Albab", which is considered as the oldest extant biographical work in Persian literature and the most important collection of biographies of Persian poets. This book was written by renowned historian Muhammad Aufi (1171 CE - 1242 CE). In this text, Aufi mentions that the famous Persian poet, of Ghaznavid period, Masud Saad Salman (1046 CE - 1121 CE), who was born in Lahore and lived most of his life there, wrote, as well, a poetic work (Deewan) in Hindvi. Same is asserted, by Amir Khusrow, in the foreword of his book Ghurrat ul-Kamaal (1294 CE). Unfortunately, that work has been lost and is not extant.

 

[W.11]

According to my knowledge, the oldest mention of "Hindvi" language, in specific terms, is in the Persian book "Lubab ul-Albab", which is considered as the oldest extant biographical work in Persian literature and the most important collection of biographies of Persian poets. This book is written by renowned historian Muhammad Aufi (1171 CE - 1242 CE). In this text, Aufi mentions that the famous Persian poet, of Ghaznavid period, Masud Saad Salman (1046 CE - 1121 CE), who was born in Lahore and lived most of his life there, wrote, as well, a poetic work (Deewan) in Hindvi. Same is asserted, by Amir Khusrow, in the foreword of his book Ghurrat ul-Kamaal (1294 CE). Unfortunately, that work has been lost and is not extant.

if hindvi/urdu is attested in lahore a thousand years ago, it fails some Punjabi nationalist propaganda how urdu arrived in Punjab due to colonial policy.

very informative thanks for sharing that.

regards

 

[Nityam]

if hindvi/urdu is attested in lahore a thousand years ago, it fails some Punjabi nationalist propaganda how urdu arrived in Punjab due to colonial policy.

very informative thanks for sharing that.

regards

It only shows Hindvi exited in Lahore, when did it become "urdu" ?

 

[W.11]

It only shows Hindvi exited in Lahore, when did it become "urdu" ?

hindvi and urdu are terminologies used for the same language, it was a name given by foreigners not local indians.

regards

 

[Nityam]

hindvi and urdu are terminologies used for the same language, it was a name given by foreigners not local indians.

regards

Well Shivaji certainly fought for "Hindvi swaraj". Now guess what that means.

 

[ThunderCat]

It was influenced by Khariboli but not derived from Khari itself https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...7BYfVqFNRVVcW1sfh4o4Bs06593ZQ59aNH2W4w9gyxTb0